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Opinion: 1986-87 Fleer Michael Jordan PSA 10

I'm not asking anyone to do the impossible and predict the future... well, maybe a little bit.

If you had a PSA 10 86-87 Fleer Jordan, considering current market conditions, would you sell it now? Why?

Curious as to the opinions of the board members here.

Thanks,
Joe

Joe

IG: goatcollectibles23

The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.

Comments

  • DM23HOFDM23HOF Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have one and I am intending to hold it for my collection. Were it purely an investment piece, I would hold it and check in at 5 and then 10 years and bet it beats many other places I could have parked that same amount of money. In my opinion, Jordan and Mantle are the guys whose demand can always absorb some new supply, and Jordan still has huge fans who have yet to reach their full earnings potential, who will enter the fray for the card in time. Then there's the issue of how not even all 10s are created equal, with the yellow underbleed of the piping especially in the lower left corner, the registration of the black framing line, and of course the notorious tilt and centering issues. My reasons for being so bullish (pun intended) on the card also include it being such a watershed sports card, the magnitude and global popularity of the player, and it being such a liquid card, which makes it very attractive for someone wanting a nice sports card, but liking one that can turn into cash in a snap. Just one guy's take, but hope that helps.
  • Do not buy now IMO. Investment should have been made > 1 year ago. I bought mine for 5.5k in 2012 and just submitted for reholder with the new label; I intend to hold on in the short term and watch the economy. I sold a BGS 9.5 with 10 centering in Dec 2014 for 6.5k; the same card sold recently on feebay for 8k. I am not saying the market has peaked, but it is getting into territory where fewer and fewer people have the means to buy at 10k+ prices. Combine that with many sales on feebay that never go through (either seller wanting to show high prices or people just don't pay), the market will correct a bit in the short term.
  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,206 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it is still a solid investment. An iconic card add a transcendent player. Plus there are many deep pocketed basketball collectors in the Asian market. I would hold onto that card

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • bouncebounce Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭
    If you want one for your collection, no reason to sell - just keep it and enjoy it! That's a great card!

    If you're more of an "investor", you might consider selling and moving on to something else. Prices have been strong, and while they could go up it's not like MJ is the only card on the rise. There are plenty of others especially in the Hall of Famer rookie category across every sport. Prices have been STRONG this year.

    And remember, no card or any other investment actually "makes" you any money until you sell it. If you do sell, just make sure you're prepared to move on. No regrets.
  • Thank you for the great opinions. And for the record, I do not own one but I have been looking.

    I thought it would be nice to know the mentality I am dealing with so I can negotiate accordingly.
    Joe

    IG: goatcollectibles23

    The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.
  • RookieHOFersRookieHOFers Posts: 733 ✭✭✭
    I own this card. I am not selling right now, but I'm also not buying at $17K ish prices it's been closing at lately. I am not sure where this card almost settles at, but I don't see huge increases occurring over the next several years. I think if your buying it for an investment, your essentially going to be parking your money, sans picking one up for $12-13K.
    Matt
    I collect: 80’s Rookies and 86 Fleer Basketball
  • DM23HOFDM23HOF Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I take a very different view on this than my fellow collector just above. I see this card becoming the new generation's 52 Mantle, with a global demand, in ten years or so. Only time will tell, and in the meantime like many collectors I just enjoy looking at it and having one that I like. But were I asked for my picks for sheer future monetary value, with a window of 10 years-- knowing full well that such opinions are worth what they cost-- my picks are the Jordan Rookie, Mantles, Lou Gehrig, and the Nolan Ryan Rookie. I bought my 10 for 16.5 barely a month ago and could already sell it for 20k. Few cards are like that. I see it worth way more in the long term than it is now. Only time will tell, but nothing about this card in its whole history would indicate it ever really stops. People used to say about the 311 Mick, and still do, that because it has always gone up, it's gotta slow down-- and then it would chill for a bit...then surge again. MJ in 10 rises a great deal in ten years is my gut.
  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The basketball explosion (led by MJ) has occurred in post-1984, it has not occurred in previous years. If I were a collector I would hang on to the Jordan. If I were investing I would dump it and hit '57, '61, and '69.

    Arthur
  • RynoandBoRynoandBo Posts: 393 ✭✭
    Interesting topic: I appreciate the well thought out responses thus far. This will not be one of them, lol.

    I own a 10. It was the card I always dreamed of having, going back to 1991 when I was a sophomore in high school. I saved and traded and flipped and saved to the point where I could finally afford one. I bought it almost a year ago if I remember correctly. I really struggled as I had seen them going for about $10,500 or so. Then it shot up to $12,000 which is where I bought mine at. I really felt like I was buying at the peak price, and felt bad about it. Well, close to a year later they are selling for 17K and I don't feel as bad.

    I truly believe this card will rise in value even with the increases in pop. I can see the card hitting $20,000 in the next 5 years. I'm still not selling. I suppose everyone has a price. If in 10 years I was offered $30,000 I would have to consider selling. It would be hard though as he was so idolized in my youth growing up in Chicago. Could a lower grade give me just as much enjoyment? Hard to say. What's interesting, for me anyway, is a low grade HOF rookie like Hank Aaron or Wilt Chamberlain is just fine for me. The Jordan in anything but a 10 probably would not be as enjoyable, since he is the top athlete I collect.

    In either case, do what makes you happy, and enjoy the journey. Since you identified that you are looking for one, I would suggest a reputable dealer. Dealing with someone like me would be hard as I have an emotional attachment and will ask for $80,000 to sell lol. There are a lot of shenanigans out there as well so be careful. I was burned once on a PSA 9 of this card. You may pay a little more from a Probstein, PWCC or MNMIRACLE, but the added security and peace of mind is worth it.

    Mike
  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 8,989 ✭✭✭✭✭
    One may assume logically that once the 10's achieve 20k plus status that the affordability becomes difficult for many. Then you may see buyers settling for a nice eye appealing 8-9 grade. The more this occurs one may see the prices for those 8-9's rise. So it may be wise to settle for the 8-9 before that scenario unfolds, where a 8-9 may eventually rise to a price of unaffordability. This, providing one cannot afford the 10 now or in the future. There are some nice looking 9's out there. You see this scenario playing itself out now with the 52 Mantle. Most cannot afford a higher grade, so they are now settling for a lower affordable grade, thus driving up the lower grade prices. At least this way they are "in the game" of Mantle ownership.
    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • KendallCatKendallCat Posts: 2,998 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with the above sentiment and I am looking to grab a Jordan or two centered in an 8.5/9. Had a sweet 9 earlier this year that was very strong, but a 5 figure card came up and the Jordan was needed so I could get the other card. I have always been told of you can grab a super card/white whale and have to give up good cards to get it that you can reacquire again easily do it. Great discussion and topic.
  • cardbendercardbender Posts: 1,831 ✭✭
    I don't own a Jordan 10 and never will. I view the 10 market as over inflated. These 10's are simply Mint 9's. We've all seen 10's
    with focus problems, edge chipping, tilts, etc..... it's not a grade I will ever collect.
    I would sell it now or very soon while the card market and the economy is strong.

    In the past, the Jordan rookie card zoomed to crazy high levels ($40k) and this was when the pops were somewhat low. Then it plummeted back to reality
    and was selling in the $10-15k range. It can happen again.
    Lately, it's been on a very strong rise in price, yet pops continue to rise and so does demand. I believe in selling into a strong market.
    I view it as a ultra popular card that's readily available. Personally I'd rather own a Wilt Chamberlain AND Lew Alcindor rookies in PSA 9,
    than a Jordan 10 rookie.

    To me, owning an older, vintage, key rookie card, is always better than owning a modern one.
    Again, just my opinion. Most will probably disagree with my point of view. I've been wrong many times before
    in trying to predict the hobby trends.
  • I would hold on to it if I didn't need the money and I was happy with the card in the holder.
  • DM23HOFDM23HOF Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>We've all seen 10's
    with focus problems, edge chipping, tilts, etc..... >>



    Very astute observation, and was what I noticed as well with the Jordan Fleer RC. It made the pursuit of a truly perfect example really satisfying as a collector. As that quote implies, Jordan RCs that genuinely merit the GEM MINT status are quite special, since there are so many tiny eye appeal issues that can affect the card. It's one of the many reasons I am so bullish on the prospect of such examples going into the future. And what a photo. Some cards just have that perfect photo chosen by the card makers, and that sure is one of them.

    Two other things germane to the discussion are the prevalence of crack-out/crossovers/rebsubmissions with this card. Over the last few years my eyes have really been opened to the enormity of that crack-out game in the hobby. Because collecting is largely a solitary pursuit (with the grateful exception of forums like this and Net54) it is easy to miss seeing that literally thousands of collectors and sellers are doing the crack or crossover game. Likely the card whose strong examples this most happens to is the MJ Fleer. The other aspect pertinent to this discussion is the enormously high price of unopened of the 86F set, which all but forbids busting open boxes and cases, knowing the tilt, centering and PD issues, any one of which can forever prohibit a 10-grade. I personally always tend toward finding 10s hiding in 9 holders, but like the poster quoted above said, even 10s of this card usually have some tiny flaw-- and finding a 9 that is truly perfect may be one of the harder pursuits in the hobby, given how likely it is that any 9 that is really a 10 has already been reviewed many times or cracked and already made it into that 10 holder.
  • VintagemanEdVintagemanEd Posts: 928 ✭✭✭
    I have always been inclined to buy nice 9's instead... In this case you
    Could buy five or six nice 9's for the price of a 10. Just my 2 cents!
  • hitting the 20s recently....has it peaked?
  • rtimmerrtimmer Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Meatloaf
    hitting the 20s recently....has it peaked?


    Peaked? No. It will continue to rise. Because t the best basketball buy today? Certainly not there are more that will rise at a higher rate. Let's see what the next 10 years brings.
    Follow me at LinkedIn & Instagram: @ryanscard
    Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
    1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
  • MrNearMintMrNearMint Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭
    I've been tracking graded Jordan cards going on four years now and have seen a large spike in prices in the lower graded copies (8 and below). I've actually been hoarding 86-87 fleer Jordan's for a while now (I own three with bgs 7 being highest grade) and also 87-88 second year Jordan (I own 11 graded copies). The second year Jordan is on a huge upswing. Bgs 9's a year ago could be had for around 150 now go for 250+.
    I have no idea when/if the bottom will fall out from the Jordan market but either way, I think Jordan rookies and second year cards are solid cards to own.
  • rtimmerrtimmer Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: MrNearMint
    I've been tracking graded Jordan cards going on four years now and have seen a large spike in prices in the lower graded copies (8 and below). I've actually been hoarding 86-87 fleer Jordan's for a while now (I own three with bgs 7 being highest grade) and also 87-88 second year Jordan (I own 11 graded copies). The second year Jordan is on a huge upswing. Bgs 9's a year ago could be had for around 150 now go for 250+.
    I have no idea when/if the bottom will fall out from the Jordan market but either way, I think Jordan rookies and second year cards are solid cards to own.


    I like the 1987 too, but I think the biggest value cards are actually 1986 Jordan stickers. My favorite for their rarity is the 1896 unopened pack sticker showing examples. I expect them to double again over the next 5 years and have stocked up on them as best I could but again they are fairly rare to track down.
    Follow me at LinkedIn & Instagram: @ryanscard
    Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
    1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
  • MrNearMintMrNearMint Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭
    I like the 1987 too, but I think the biggest value cards are actually 1986 Jordan stickers. My favorite for their rarity is the 1896 unopened pack sticker showing examples. I expect them to double again over the next 5 years and have stocked up on them as best I could but again they are fairly rare to track down.



    I agree. The 86 fleer Jordan sticker is probably one of his most underrated cards imo. I don't know why they're not that popular, but it's a great card!
  • there is a 10 ending soon, I think PWCC. It did not have the new holo label : ( Would seem to me to be a no brainer to reholder a mj 10 rookie....or any for that matter with the new holo.
  • Hey Mike. You mentioned that you were burned on a PSA 9 and I was curious to understand what happened? I am looking to get a 86 Jordan PSA 9 because I can't afford the 10. Do you feel the 9 is still a good enough investment? There are roughly 18% of them at a PSA 9 right now so it's no where near as exclusive as the PSA 10.



    Dan
    Happy to be back in the game!!
  • addicted2ebayaddicted2ebay Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭✭
    Man I remember selling my PSA 9 for $1,900 and thought I was laughing to the bank just 4-5 years ago. If only I had a time machine.
  • RynoandBoRynoandBo Posts: 393 ✭✭
    I was burned on my first PSA 9 rookie as it was purchased on eBay and turned out to be a cracked case. The seller removed the 9 card and replaced it with a re-colored card. Luckily it was a real card. I took a baby wipe to the edges and sure enough, red marker came off and revealed white corners and edges. I had it graded and it was a 6. Live and learn. I tried to open a case and it was a disaster.

    Sad for me to read this post. I sold bolth both my 86 and 87 Fleer via PWCC this week. Happy news is the funds are going to a new house for my growing family.
  • Wow that's crazy. How easy is it for people to crack a case and replace a card? The guy I am am talking with took his card off ebay so save the fees. I'm not familiar with the etiquette is in these forums. Is it a bad thing to post a picture of a card to get everyone's input on the quality? Since I am just now getting back in to the graded card game I highly value input form others who've been at it longer them me!



    Glad to hear about your growing family! Congrats!! I have 2 young girls myself. Right now my 4 year old is getting her nightly dose of MLB.TV! image
    Happy to be back in the game!!
  • KendallCatKendallCat Posts: 2,998 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I guess I can see it both ways in regards to the PSA 9 or PSA 10. Personally I would buy 4-6 PSA 9's for the price of one PSA 10. If the 10 climbs the 9 climbs with it, and I have a chance to sell a few and get back some money. If this were a Mantle rookie I would go for the highest grade I could afford with great centering and eye appeal. They are not making any more of them, no more boxes or cases left to crack out, and heaven forbid if Jordan was nailed in a scandal the values "could" plummet. You don't have that risk with say Clemente or Mantle. Plus there were a ton of 1986 Fleer made compared to 1950's baseball.
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1992 Jordan


    I just bumped this thread as it isn't worth starting a new one but man this card is going for big money. I figured this would be considered junk wax.

  • miwlvrnmiwlvrn Posts: 4,262 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Dpeck100

    1992 Jordan





    I just bumped this thread as it isn't worth starting a new one but man this card is going for big money. I figured this would be considered junk wax.







    I haven't checked; are most of these sudden price jump Jordan cards being won by the same 2 to 3 guys, or is the winner list more widely distributed than that?





  • rtimmerrtimmer Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: SpinFadeSplash23
    Thank you for the great opinions. And for the record, I do not own one but I have been looking.

    I thought it would be nice to know the mentality I am dealing with so I can negotiate accordingly.


    Don't buy now then would be my advise. I would pick up a star court kings and a star slam dunk and wait for the market to catch up to those cards. My second best choice is the 1986 Jordan showing sticker unopened packs (which I picked up a few a couple years ago) but still think that they will take off more due to their relative rarity.
    Follow me at LinkedIn & Instagram: @ryanscard
    Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
    1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
  • KendallCatKendallCat Posts: 2,998 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Checking VCP it shows that since March when they started their run up in prices a total of 14 Jordan PSA 10's have been purchased with two buyers having bought 6 of them. The bidder with id e***m purchased 4 of them. Interestingly enough the same person bought the 54 Aaron in PSA 8, plus several Ryan 8's and a 9. Seems as if they have the funding and are targeting key rookie cards.
  • miwlvrnmiwlvrn Posts: 4,262 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: KendallCat

    Checking VCP it shows that since March when they started their run up in prices a total of 14 Jordan PSA 10's have been purchased with two buyers having bought 6 of them. The bidder with id e***m purchased 4 of them. Interestingly enough the same person bought the 54 Aaron in PSA 8, plus several Ryan 8's and a 9. Seems as if they have the funding and are targeting key rookie cards.




    Makes sense. What about the winner distribution on the Jordan cards from say 1989-1993 or so?
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: KendallCat
    Checking VCP it shows that since March when they started their run up in prices a total of 14 Jordan PSA 10's have been purchased with two buyers having bought 6 of them. The bidder with id e***m purchased 4 of them. Interestingly enough the same person bought the 54 Aaron in PSA 8, plus several Ryan 8's and a 9. Seems as if they have the funding and are targeting key rookie cards.


    Thanks for the info. Just like in the stock market people build positions. I could totally see a collector having 250k or 500k they want to put to work and they have to wait until the cards come up and then they spend.

    You can't go in and buy a thinly traded stock and not move it just like you can't go in and buy some what rare and very popular cards without moving them too.

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 8,989 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wonder why these "cartel types", if in fact they could be labeled as such, and if they are involved in the Jordan run ups of prices, are not jumping into the unopened vintage market. Or maybe they are as well. I've read here recently on these boards that unopened has softened a bit. Would seem an opportune time for them to take the plunge.
    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • Originally posted by: BLUEJAYWAY
    I wonder why these "cartel types", if in fact they could be labeled as such, and if they are involved in the Jordan run ups of prices, are not jumping into the unopened vintage market. Or maybe they are as well. I've read here recently on these boards that unopened has softened a bit. Would seem an opportune time for them to take the plunge.


    One issue may be the lack of the high end, desirable BBCE product in the basketball category making it to the market.

    Joe

    IG: goatcollectibles23

    The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.
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