ESPN: Pete Rose bet on games as a player
pauldrolkees
Posts: 193 ✭✭✭
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13114874/notebook-obtained-lines-shows-pete-rose-bet-baseball-player-1986
The documents obtained by Outside the Lines, which reflect betting records from March through July 1986, show no evidence that Rose, who was a player-manager in 1986, bet against his team. They provide a vivid snapshot of how extensive Rose's betting life was in 1986:
• In the time covered in the notebook, from March through July, Rose bet on at least one MLB team on 30 different days. It's impossible to count the exact number of times he bet on baseball games because not every day's entries are legible.
• But on 21 of the days it's clear he bet on baseball, he gambled on the Reds, including on games in which he played.
• Most bets, regardless of sport, were about $2,000. The largest single bet was $5,500 on the Boston Celtics, a bet he lost.
• Rose bet heavily on college and professional basketball, losing $15,400 on one day in March. That came during his worst week of the four-month span, when he lost $25,500.
Dowd said he wished he'd had the Bertolini notebook in 1989, but he didn't need it to justify Rose's banishment. Under MLB Rule 21, "Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible."
But Rose's supporters have based part of their case for his reinstatement on his claim that he never bet while he was a player or against his team, saying that sins he committed as a manager shouldn't diminish what he did as a player.
"The rule says, if you bet, it doesn't say for or against. It's another device by Pete to try to excuse what he did," Dowd said. "But when he bet, he was gone. He placed his financial interest ahead of the Reds, period."
The documents obtained by Outside the Lines, which reflect betting records from March through July 1986, show no evidence that Rose, who was a player-manager in 1986, bet against his team. They provide a vivid snapshot of how extensive Rose's betting life was in 1986:
• In the time covered in the notebook, from March through July, Rose bet on at least one MLB team on 30 different days. It's impossible to count the exact number of times he bet on baseball games because not every day's entries are legible.
• But on 21 of the days it's clear he bet on baseball, he gambled on the Reds, including on games in which he played.
• Most bets, regardless of sport, were about $2,000. The largest single bet was $5,500 on the Boston Celtics, a bet he lost.
• Rose bet heavily on college and professional basketball, losing $15,400 on one day in March. That came during his worst week of the four-month span, when he lost $25,500.
Dowd said he wished he'd had the Bertolini notebook in 1989, but he didn't need it to justify Rose's banishment. Under MLB Rule 21, "Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible."
But Rose's supporters have based part of their case for his reinstatement on his claim that he never bet while he was a player or against his team, saying that sins he committed as a manager shouldn't diminish what he did as a player.
"The rule says, if you bet, it doesn't say for or against. It's another device by Pete to try to excuse what he did," Dowd said. "But when he bet, he was gone. He placed his financial interest ahead of the Reds, period."
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Comments
<< <i>Old news. Came out in June. >>
+1, before Dowd made the statutory rape allegations he quickly walked back.
Now do I care...not one bit.
Does he deserve the H.o.F.???? 100%
Later, Paul.
Is he going to get in? No
Its doesn't matter if he's in or not. People idolize way to much and worry about what comes after their name. Rose screwed up and won't get in. Big deal he still has the most hits. Bonds the most Home Runs. Clemens the most Cy Young's. Does anybody think they weren't the best at the time, nope. So they are still "All Time Greats". I'm just mad I can't add them to my Hall of Fame registry.
1992 Collectors Edge Football case?
P.S. I am a huge Pete Rose collector and fan. But I am willing to give him a pass on his gambling woes. Why can't everyone else just let go of the PED thing and just admire the others for their accomplishments, also. Very important accomplishments at that.
<< <i>And yet the baseball collecting world frowns on Barry Bonds, Mark Mcgwire, Jose Canseco, Sammy Sosa for PED's. But investors/collectors idolize Pete Rose.
P.S. I am a huge Pete Rose collector and fan. But I am willing to give him a pass on his gambling woes. Why can't everyone else just let go of the PED thing and just admire the others for their accomplishments, also. Very important accomplishments at that. >>
That line of thinking makes no sense. PEDs made players greater. That's why people can't admire them for their greatness. Clemens was washed up when he left Boston. The only reason he won all those additional Cy's was because he cheated.
<< <i>And yet the baseball collecting world frowns on Barry Bonds, Mark Mcgwire, Jose Canseco, Sammy Sosa for PED's. But investors/collectors idolize Pete Rose.
P.S. I am a huge Pete Rose collector and fan. But I am willing to give him a pass on his gambling woes. Why can't everyone else just let go of the PED thing and just admire the others for their accomplishments, also. Very important accomplishments at that. >>
Apples and Oranges. No evidence that Rose cheated. All those other players cheated, along with many others that are in the hall.
Put Rose in already!!
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
clear violation of the well know rules. The penalty was also clearly spelled out.
If Joe Jackson is going to be permanently banned for the Black Sox scandal (after hitting .375 in the
series) then there is no way Rose can be reinstated or ever be elected to the HOF unless we are prepared
to say that there will always be exceptions for which we will overlook the rules.
As much as Rose was great on the field, he screwed up and has to live with the consequences of permanent
banning.
Dave
<< <i>
+1,000,000,000
<< <i>I am a huge Pete Rose fan, but his actions compromised the integrity of the game and were a
clear violation of the well know rules. The penalty was also clearly spelled out.
If Joe Jackson is going to be permanently banned for the Black Sox scandal (after hitting .375 in the
series) then there is no way Rose can be reinstated or ever be elected to the HOF unless we are prepared
to say that there will always be exceptions for which we will overlook the rules.
As much as Rose was great on the field, he screwed up and has to live with the consequences of permanent
banning. >>
This is basically my feeling. Great player, and I don't hold any grudges against him, but the rules are pretty black & white that he can't be elected to the Hall.
#freepeterose #moonlandingisahoax
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
<< <i>I think most people's argument isn't over the betting,it's over betting isn't as bad as cheating.The problem is the cheaters have made MLB billions and Pete has been nothing more than a blister on MLB's big toe.I agree that betting isn't as bad as purposely cheating,lying about it,cheating again, basically giving MLB the middle finger,and still being able to play.Why? Because of the money that the teams and MLB makes off of him and the other cheaters. Another issue is how MLB handles the cheaters.50 or 100 games;big deal.Sit out those games,sign a huge contract or return to your huge contract, and learn nothing.I don't see how betting your way out of the history books is worse than cheating your way into record books. >>
In some ways I can agree with this. The rules against PEDs that have been developed are basically slaps on the wrist. Unfortunately
there is just too many $$$ at stake for MLB and the players to have created PED rules that on par with the no gambling rule (i.e. one
"strike" and you're out for using PEDs).
As for Rose, anything that could bring the integrity of the game into question is unfortunately far more than a "blister". That's why
the no gambling rule was created with such a severe penalty. To make it almost unthinkable of violating it.
Rose broke the rule. Doing ANYTHING that would allow him to circumvent the rule and escape the consequences of his actions would
only serve to weaken all MLB rules over time. It makes no difference if he was a superstar or a journeyman utility player who bounced
around from team-to-team for his career. Exceptions will just lead to more exceptions in the future (and probably with increasingly
less solid justifications) based on the whims of whoever is in charge or whoever is friends with the people who are in charge. That's
why this has to be black and white. There can be no way back for Pete Rose, as the evidence of his guilt is undeniable. He bet on baseball...full stop. He's gone forever.
Dave
the no gambling rule was created with such a severe penalty. To make it almost unthinkable of violating it.
Rose broke the rule. Doing ANYTHING that would allow him to circumvent the rule and escape the consequences of his actions would
only serve to weaken all MLB rules over time. It makes no difference if he was a superstar or a journeyman utility player who bounced
around from team-to-team for his career. Exceptions will just lead to more exceptions in the future (and probably with increasingly
less solid justifications) based on the whims of whoever is in charge or whoever is friends with the people who are in charge. That's
why this has to be black and white. There can be no way back for Pete Rose, as the evidence of his guilt is undeniable. He bet on baseball...full stop. He's gone forever. >>
What I meant by "blister" is he's not making MLB any money,but is always a topic of conversation for the brass at MLB.Conversation about him will never go away.Yes he did break a rule and that rule had a clear punishment of death cause it was the worst offense at the time,even worse than the coke heads playing games jacked out of their minds.However,most people don't even know the whole situation regarding the lifetime deal that was struck.Neither side felt like they would win,both bluffed and both folded.The deal also included the preface that Pete would be able to apply for reinstatement after a set amount of time.I believe it was 3 years,not sure,to give it time to blow over.Then many factors arose and all this time later;still banned.I also will re-phrase that cheating should have tougher penalties.I don't agree that betting hurts the integrity of baseball as bad as cheating does.The biggest problem with Pete,has been his attitude.Had he played along and sucked up,like some of the cheaters,this discussion wouldn't be taking place.He's to outspoken for his own good and until that changes,he'll still be that blister.
If PEDs cause no substantial gain,then they wouldn't be illegal.Players don't teeter on the brink of being out of baseball,then magically be better than they were in their prime.You can't gain what some did in such a short period of time without what they took causing it.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
1 - Wow, that incriminating piece of paper could never have been altered or forged in any way, could it?
2 - That document is really how thousands and thousands of dollars worth of bets were recorded and enforced?
"Molon Labe"
<< <i>Rose agreed to the lifetime ban to stop the Dowd investigation because he knew there were uglier revelations in the closet, including strong evidence that he also bet against the Reds, as well as on them. Even if he didn't, though, the nights he did not bet on the Reds he was sending a clear signal to the bookies that he did not believe the Reds could win on those nights. Once you have bookies involved in the outcomes of the games, the integrity of the game is jeopardized and that is far worse an offense than taking PEDs. That is why the penalties are so severe for betting on baseball, and rightfully so. >>
MLB wanted it to stay "in house" and Pete didn't want any of the people who bet for him ratting him out.Therefore an agreement on the ban with a preface that he apply after the set time.I will not argue nor tell anyone their opinion is wrong and,yes,I'm biased on this.In my opinion the integrity of the game can be compromised with PEDs,players playing games while high or drunk,and drug dealers in the dugouts and clubhouses,as well as gambling.Look at the drug trials in the early 80's,where players in the HOF conversation played high on cocaine.It's why some people say Dave Parker never made it in the HOF.Again I'm biased,but to me it's all the same and should carry the same penalty,at least for multiple offenders.Maybe that's the biggest "injustice".
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I'll bypass the issues being discussed, but I have to say two things.
1 - Wow, that incriminating piece of paper could never have been altered or forged in any way, could it?
2 - That document is really how thousands and thousands of dollars worth of bets were recorded and enforced? >>
The story goes,he always had paid people placing the bets for him and kept the numbers in a notebook or something.Someone turned him in or something like that and that's what started the whole thing.There's a lot more info on the handling of the investigation and what MLB could/couldn't 100% prove back then floating around the internet somewhere.I won't flood the thread.Like I said,I'm biased.
I think all hof's have become a joke.
<< <i>a rose by any other name wouldn't smell as pete. >>
+1 for the 5:24 AM chuckle this one brought to my face.
Pete was my childhood idol growing up in the 70's.....sad, sorrowful, shame that his actions will prevent him from realizing the HoF glory his career deserves.
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