1852 CA gold? Real?

GhosOfRudy

Saw this in my LCS window at a price that seemed like an amazing deal if real, and an OK deal if not. So I picked it up. Thoughts? Real? First CA gold I've owned so I have no point of reference.



Closest I found on
Ebay

TopographicOceans

No.


Picture

eBay

Zoins

There are lots of fakes and replicas for these, mostly US made from my understanding.

You should do a lot of research before getting into this area.

Can you still return it?

lordmarcovan

Well, it doesn't have the "bad news bear", so there's a start. (California gold fractionals with a bear on the reverse are modern fantasies).

It looks awfully well executed for a small CA gold, considering how crude the real ones I've had were. But I only have very limited experience with the Liberty heads, not Indian heads.

Dunno. It's nice if real, but suspect for that reason. You'll get your answer and I'll defer to those in the know. I'm suspicious.

Here's a LINK

PS- what's a "LCS window?"

GhosOfRudy

<< <i>There are lots of fakes and replicas for these, mostly US made from my understanding.

You should do a lot of research before getting into this area.

Can you still return it? >>



Agreed. An impulse buy at $30 weight is 0.25g. Not worried about returning it, still think its neat.

Noticing now that mine has 12 stars and eBay has 13. Mine has none near the headdress of the Indian.

PerryHall

No denomination means that it's not a real coin but there were tokens made after the Secret Service stopped the production of the California fractional gold coins. The tokens aren't as valuable as the coins but they are collectable.

GhosOfRudy

<< <i>

PS- what's a "LCS window?" >>



LCS = Local Coin Store. Under the glass in the store

jcping

California 1852 fractional gold coins do exist. I can count, at least, 4 from my mind, e.g., BG-401, 427 etc. The BG-401 is an R-3 coin so that it is about $300-$400 for a choice uncirculated one.

The one that you have is a back-dated charm (you can't always said it is a fake). Whether this is a 19th century made or made in the early 20th century or made in 70's, you need to ask a CA charm expert.

Zoins

<< <i>The one that you have is a back-dated charm (you can't always said it is a fake). >>



What's the difference between one that is back-dated and a fake?

lordmarcovan

Duh. It totally escaped my attention that there was no denomination on it.

Must've just skimmed over the reverse.

I thought it was a 1/4 dollar or something, but it would've probably been tiny and more crude if that were so.

jcping

Most post 1882 charms were back-dated to 1850's which are generally accepted by CA charm community. Unfortunately, there is NO book to summarizes all collectible CA charms yet. We wish the person who bought all Jay Roe's charm (period 3) collection would write a book to benefit our coin collecting community when he has time.

GhosOfRudy

<< <i>Duh. It totally escaped my attention that there was no denomination on it.

Must've just skimmed over the reverse.

I thought it was a 1/4 dollar or something, but it would've probably been tiny and more crude if that were so. >>



It is fairly tiny. Here she is next to a Morgan. Excuse my dirty scanner bed.

EastonCollection

Technically, this is a charm. Its interesting to note some very obvious differences between real California fractionals are - period 1s were minted from 1852 to 1857 and no period 1s do not have an Indian on the coins. Period 1s typically had a Liberty head on the obverse. Period 2s minted from 1858 to 1882 had generally Indian and Liberty head obverses on them. When jewelers minted charms or souvenirs of San Francisco, they minted them typically after 1857. So any Indian head California fractional dated before 1858 with a Indian Head is a charm.
Alot of very interesting stories about these very small coins and interesting to collect. There are a few books on these coins mostly covering the real ones. You maybe able to find the book - California Pioneer Fractional Gold by Walter Brenn & Ron Gillio on Ebay.

good luck!

oih82w8

Ok, it's a charm...is it really gold?

PerryHall

<< <i>Ok, it's a charm...is it really gold? >>



With numerous manufacturers making these charms, the metal content varies considerably. Some are low grade gold (10K or less) while others are brass with or without gold plating.

winky

Looks like brass.