PSA graded packs versus GAI packs

KendallCat

Quick question which I think I already know the answer, but it appears that when buying/selling graded packs there is a premium assigned to PSA packs over other companies. I notice on Ebay that GAI packs will be on there and not move or not for nearly the same amount that PSA packs go for. Do people not trust GAI packs overall? Thank you in advance for the help.

KC

LarkinCollector

I'm sure the unopened experts will chime in, but in general early GAI pack grading was pretty good and then it changed where they were letting a lot of bad packs get graded. There should be several threads covering the differences.

slum22

I'm sure Tim or one of the other unopened experts on here can weigh in. I do think there is a premium for PSA packs which is to be expected. To my understanding though, GAI packs are not necessarily to be avoided. In particular, I believe the silver/gray flips are generally considered more trustworthy than the white flips especially certain number sequences/serial numbers (101*** IIRC).

ETA: Kyle beat me to it. Basically, what he said.

70ToppsFanatic

When Ryan Rutter was in charge the quality control suffered.

102 series flips are notoriously to be suspected

KendallCat

<< <i>When Ryan Rutter was in charge the quality control suffered.

102 series flips are notoriously to be suspected >>



Have not heard that name in a long time - wow!

KC

cpamike

GAI probably gets a bad rap as I've found many examples of packs which were perfectly fine. They had a few major mistakes when Rutter was grading packs where they authenticated early 1970's grocery cellos when Topps never produced any. Rutter used the certs beginning with "102" which is why people feel more confident with the "100" and "101" certs. Keep in mind that GAI was the only game in town so you will see a lot of them out there. As prices have gone up and made it more lucrative for resealers, we've seen many more bad graded packs make their way into the marketplace. Just need to do some due diligence, but I definitely don't discount a GAI graded pack, but others with less experience may which generates a premium for PSA graded packs over GAI ones.

I will say that the GAI holders are much better than the PSA ones especially in regards to wax packs. Or course, the GAI holders are easier to open for those damn rippers though, but that is a discussion for another thread.

grote15

Mike is correct in that a couple of the more glaring errors occurred when Rutter was the unopened authenticator at GAI~the most notorious of which was the whole 1970s "grocery" cello fiasco. And while Rutter's tenure did coincide with GAI cert numbers beginning with 102XXX, the majority of GAI packs graded during that time were perfectly fine. I have opened a great number of GAI graded packs over the years (as Mike alluded to, they are easier to open in a moment of weakness ) and the vast majority were authentic, and the few that were questionable spanned cert numbers from all eras, which contradicts the assertion that packs with 102XXX cert #s are inherently suspect. I do think that in general the earlier (silver) flips are more reliable that the newer ones, as the carousel of graders began shortly after that design change, but learning what to look for will help improve your chances of acquiring legitimate packs. All graders are human and mistakes are made by any company, but PSA does have greater brand name recognition which equates to a higher premium on the retail market. That said, I will not discount a GAI graded pack if a nice one comes along. Personally, I wouldn't pay a significant premium for a PSA graded pack vs a GAI graded pack, unless it's a condition sensitive one.

belz

Tim, Mike, are the GAI 71 racks on eBay legit?

Griffins

Agree with Tim and Mike. I would not automatically count out 102 serial numbers, though I would look at them very closely. There are some of us that just prefer GAI's holder, both for aesthetics and the security of the pack. Remember Steve sold a lot of GAI graded packs prior to '06, and they were the only game in town.
No one is perfect, and I'd scrutinize any pack in any holder. Besides just bad packs getting thru, there is always the likelihood of post grading damage, especially from loose gum tearing into the pack.

Tangalang

Gai was very popular back in the day & $10 per pack wasn't bad at all & the wait wasn't near as long as PSA 3 months or more! Most cellos with rookies on top in a PSA 9 will do much better than GAI 9 for the most part. I used to be a GAI fan cause they graded boxes (Put them in sealed plastic casing) as well labeling them from a sealed case if that were the case or just graded on display appearance for grading. I have crossed over wax packs & have paid for that with damage from the gum that wasn't present in the GAI holder! I do remember Steve selling GAI packs cause I bought 4 79' Topps Hockey Wax Packs GAI 9.5 from him!

70ToppsFanatic

Cpamike and I examined the 1971 Seaver showing GAI rack now on ebay at national in 2013 and decided to pass on it along with several others.

grote15

<< <i>Tim, Mike, are the GAI 71 racks on eBay legit? >>



I would steer clear of those, frankly.

belz

Thx..too good to be true is usually the case

flatfoot816

PSA packs will normally bring a premium as opposed to GAI packs. That is for obvious reasons. And that's no matter what the flip # is on the GAI pack--IMO. Knowledgeable collectors will still buy GAI packs; however, it surprises me sometimes to see really nice vintage packs being sold in GAI slabs. If they are legit--why not cross them before selling? Having said that there are many GAI packs that will sell no matter what flip # to the knowledgeable collector who can discern a good pack from bad.

After being burned a few times on GAI packs that did not cross--I made the decision to only buy PSA packs or BBCE authenticated product. I also made the decision to cross all of my packs-raks-cellos--and just finished. It was done more for liquidation purposes--when that time comes--and generally knowing PSA packs will bring more. Generally speaking there is a small % of people who can tell bad packs from good ones--and even then not be 100% certain. So IMO anyone who has packs that are not PSA graded is leaving $$ on the table

grote15

As Anthony mentioned, there are unopened collectors who prefer the soft plastic GAI holder because the pack is less likely to suffer wrapper tears caused by sliding gum in transit.

That said, I have also crossed dozens of packs from GAI to PSA holders and have never had one rejected, primarily cellos because I have had issues with gum tears in wax packs if the gum is not fused to the top card in the pack. For a while, PSA was not grading packs with loose gum at all, but they appear to have resumed doing so.

In short, buy the pack, not the flip.

jmoran19

<< <i>it surprises me sometimes to see really nice vintage packs being sold in GAI slabs. If they are legit--why not cross them before selling? >>



Basically due to sliding gum creating rips in psa graded wax packs. I wont grade wax packs anymore, really tired of having an 8 turn into a 5 when I get them back.

rtimmer

My sentiment is that GAI does have a better protective case for wax, racks and boxes so I prefer to buy those, but for cellos PSA is the way to go for sure. I wish PSA had a rack and box option although Steve has stepped into the void and does a great job and with a great turn around time.

dtkk49a

NM

Griffins

NM

Tangalang

Steve is great at what he does but what mere human being in 100% flawless! Is this guy on ebay? I know a guy that has a few thousand feedback at 100% that sold me some cellos a long time ago (Actually the reason why I buy graded only besides BBCE packs) that looked bad as far as the seal & I sent them right back! I had one of the same cellos at the time so I matched them up and was a no go.

garnettstyle

I prefer GAI