grading level of different companies
olb31
Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭✭✭
Did just a cursory review of ebay (these are loose estimates, but show the popularity)
1) psa 590,000 items listed about 79%
2) Becket 130,000 items listed about 17.5%
3) sgc 25,000 items listed about 3.5%
1) psa 590,000 items listed about 79%
2) Becket 130,000 items listed about 17.5%
3) sgc 25,000 items listed about 3.5%
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ETA: Search string & number of results
psa -(sgc,bgs,bvg,bccg) 756,073
psa -(sgc,bgs,bvg,bccg,dna) 544,960
(bgs,bvg,bccg) 153,822
(sgc,scg) 36,885 *Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop category only + 3,182 *Collectibles category only
With PSA coming back 79% of the time it reinforces the 90%+ number they reference in their investor material. Since BGS was very strong in the early 2000's and graded for a time essentially just as many cards as PSA, those will skew the BGS results higher. The same can be said for SGC. I believe at the same time they were closer to 10% market share and now are in the 2% range.
No matter what percentages are used this is exactly why PSA prices in most cases are higher.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Cards-/212/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=scg
Got to figure something out for the 1175 listings where people keyword spam both PSA and SGC in the title.
Or the 204 listings where people keyword spam both PSA, SGC and either BGS or BVG in the title.
Or the 192 listings where GAI is in the title along with either PSA, SGC, BGS, or BVG.
Or the 11 listings where they have all four PSA, SGC, BGS, BVG.
In many instances the increased number of PSA cards graded actually decreases the price on what, used to be, decent selling cards. For those cards, ie. star cards in 9 in the early 80's, it is a buyers market
<< <i>I think this is a rehash of a previous thread. I am inclined to believe that the 80%-17%-3% is about accurate to how things are currently being graded. PSA had an 8 year lead on BGS and SGC which would negate the equal distribution of grading in the early 2000's. As for the search engine on ebay, many raw and BGS/SGC graded cards also contain the letters PSA?? or something similar in the title, but very few PSA graded cards contain BGS??? or SGC??? in comparison in the title.
In many instances the increased number of PSA cards graded actually decreases the price on what, used to be, decent selling cards. For those cards, ie. star cards in 9 in the early 80's, it is a buyers market >>
A lot of collectors want uniformity in their collections and the fact that many own so many PSA graded cards leads them to buy more. There are plenty of nice cards in all three of these third party graders holders but more and more you read on various boards of people trying to cross them into PSA slabs. This is driving the spreads wider and wider.
The registry naturally helps PSA as many low priced cards gets graded so that adds to the market share disparity but as prices have been crushing their competitors in the secondary market it only makes financial since to send your strong cards to the market leader.
I have said it for a long time and continue to believe that you want to have your cards in a third party graders slab that you feel confident will be in business for the long term. PSA of the three is by far and away in the best financial condition and to me this matters a great deal.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
<< <i>I also have cards from all three companies. In fact, I think the bgs holders offer the highest level of protection >>
Agree 100% on the protection
<< <i>
<< <i>I also have cards from all three companies. In fact, I think the bgs holders offer the highest level of protection >>
Agree 100% on the protection
They used to. The new PSA holder is dramatically more difficult to crack then the BGS one. It is annoying how difficult it is to get a card out safely but they had to do what they had to do.
BGS is killing themselves. When you label cards like this Gem Mint the brand deteriorates quickly. If they want to see a resurgence they will have to take the risk of grading extremely strict and forgo the leftover cards that in many cases get sent to them. They are in a tough spot.
This is a PSA 6 to 7 and when you are that far away from the mark on many cards you hurt your brand. There is a reason there are 8 BGS 9.5's and no PSA 10's.
<< <i>BGS 9.5
BGS is killing themselves. When you label cards like this Gem Mint the brand deteriorates quickly. If they want to see a resurgence they will have to take the risk of grading extremely strict and forgo the leftover cards that in many cases get sent to them. They are in a tough spot.
This is a PSA 6 to 7 and when you are that far away from the mark on many cards you hurt your brand. There is a reason there are 8 BGS 9.5's and no PSA 10's. >>
Truth is that mistakes are made. I think alot of us have removed cards for bgs slabs and received higher grades from beckett and vice-versa.
<< <i>
<< <i>BGS 9.5
BGS is killing themselves. When you label cards like this Gem Mint the brand deteriorates quickly. If they want to see a resurgence they will have to take the risk of grading extremely strict and forgo the leftover cards that in many cases get sent to them. They are in a tough spot.
This is a PSA 6 to 7 and when you are that far away from the mark on many cards you hurt your brand. There is a reason there are 8 BGS 9.5's and no PSA 10's. >>
Truth is that mistakes are made. I think alot of us have removed cards for bgs slabs and received higher grades from beckett and vice-versa. >>
+1
How many times do we see "how is this a psa 10?" Thread? In fact, I remember just seeing a similar thread a few days ago about "too tall."
<< <i>This is a PSA 6 to 7 and when you are that far away from the mark on many cards you hurt your brand. There is a reason there are 8 BGS 9.5's and no PSA 10's. >>
I don't see how you can give a grading opinion through the haze in that picture. I have no idea what that card should grade.
Here is a quick example of a very nice PSA 9 OC or essentially a PSA 7. You don't need to see the card I posted in hand to tell the condition. Eyes alone can see the centering and it is painfully clear it is massively over graded.
I get it that there are BGS apologists and I understand that when buying cards they can be viewed as investments and so no one takes kindly to having their investments disparaged. I own a few BGS cards myself but thankfully took the hits on many of them and crossed them over to PSA in lower graded holders. The company is run so poorly that it is their own doing. When you call BGS you get to speak to someone who barely can speak English which is just such a poor way to start. They have gimmicky sales people that have periodically called to sell you grading specials or magazine subscriptions that once again are nearly illiterate.
BGS had PSA in their cross hairs at one time but dropped the ball. Myself and others are just calling it like it happened. Everyday we continue to see HOF sports cards trade higher and for some reason PSA prices are dramatically higher in so many cases. I don't set the prices I just comment on them. If you haven't figured it out by now I follow markets and in a competitive market when someone loses massive market share to their next closest competitor it is a problem.
There are numerous dealers that many of us purchase cards from that call BGS garbage. They send their lower caliber cards there and profit from them achieving higher grades then they otherwise would from PSA. I personally believe BGS was just as strict if not more then PSA in the early days. But at some point they lowered their standards. If they truly want to attempt at competing with PSA they need to make some adjustments. That said I am not aware of any industry that is essentially an oligopoly where one competitor has lost massive market share and ever recovered it.
To revisit the card I posted there is a reason that none of the 8 that have graded BGS 9.5 have ever crossed. They can't. I know the person who is responsible for moving up the pop report on the PSA 9 and there are some beautiful 9's that have been reviewed, cracked out and resubmitted numerous times to no avail. PSA it appears is waiting for that extra special card if it exists and so far it has never surfaced.
<< <i>PSA 9 OC
Here is a quick example of a very nice PSA 9 OC or essentially a PSA 7. You don't need to see the card I posted in hand to tell the condition. Eyes alone can see the centering and it is painfully clear it is massively over graded.
>>
I think this is a case of the grader not being familiar with the issue and the inherent centering problems. I've had the same problem with wacky packages, which contain a copyright line of text that confuses many graders. I've had cards graded 6 that subsequently come back 9 upon crack out. I chalk this up to grader confusion about how to measure the centering.
<< <i>
<< <i>PSA 9 OC
Here is a quick example of a very nice PSA 9 OC or essentially a PSA 7. You don't need to see the card I posted in hand to tell the condition. Eyes alone can see the centering and it is painfully clear it is massively over graded.
>>
I think this is a case of the grader not being familiar with the issue and the inherent centering problems. I've had the same problem with wacky packages, which contain a copyright line of text that confuses many graders. I've had cards graded 6 that subsequently come back 9 upon crack out. I chalk this up to grader confusion about how to measure the centering. >>
BGS has graded plenty of Wrestling All Stars. PSA has graded nearly 5,700. This is just how they grade them.
Here is what a 9 looks like.
<< <i>Eyes alone can see the centering and it is painfully clear it is massively over graded. >>
I'm not sure how I became a BGS apologist for commenting on a bad scan. Centering is the only thing that can be seen from that listing and I agree it's overgraded on that aspect (like many cards in other companies holders). As for corners, edges, or surface, I don't see how anyone can have an opinion from the link.
<< <i>Here is what a 9 looks like. >>
T/B centering on that one doesn't look like it meets specs either.
ETA: 62/38
<< <i>
<< <i>Eyes alone can see the centering and it is painfully clear it is massively over graded. >>
I'm not sure how I became a BGS apologist for commenting on a bad scan. Centering is the only thing that can be seen from that listing and I agree it's overgraded on that aspect (like many cards in other companies holders). As for corners, edges, or surface, I don't see how anyone can have an opinion from the link. >>
My comments are in general and not directed specifically at you. I thought you were more of a PSA collector. There are many who feel that BGS is superior to PSA and I find it rather odd.
If this was a different industry like for example soft drinks and Coca Cola lost a massive amount of market share to Pepsi you can guarantee it would be viewed as an issue from business analysts.
<< <i>Agree with LC. Centering I can see. Everything else in that scan, forget it
I have picked up on that.
<< <i>
<< <i>Agree with LC. Centering I can see. Everything else in that scan, forget it
I have picked up on that.
On the BGS Hogan just going on the centering, in a PSA holder wouldn't that merit an OC qualifier more easily than the Race? It's OC T/B and L/R. I can see with that particular card that it should not be a 9 centering as it is graded by BGS. If either L/R OC or T/B OC like it is I could see it as a 8-8.5 Centering. But not both being L/R and T/B being OC. Wrong on my thought DPeck? Far from expert here on the Wrestling All Stars so the centering nuances would escape me. To me it's centered worse than the Race PSA 9 OC you linked because of that. But yet yes, still pulled a shaky at best 9.5 grade.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Agree with LC. Centering I can see. Everything else in that scan, forget it
I have picked up on that.
On the BGS Hogan just going on the centering, in a PSA holder wouldn't that merit an OC qualifier more easily than the Race? It's OC T/B and L/R. I can see with that particular card that it should not be a 9 centering as it is graded by BGS. If either L/R OC or T/B OC like it is I could see it as a 8-8.5 Centering. But not both being L/R and T/B being OC. Wrong on my thought DPeck? Far from expert here on the Wrestling All Stars so the centering nuances would escape me. To me it's centered worse than the Race PSA 9 OC you linked because of that. But yet yes, still pulled a shaky at best 9.5 grade. >>
The centering is worse then the Harley Race. There are PSA 6's that are super sharp that have Hogan like centering. I have a few. The key to high grades with this set with PSA is the lower edge having some space. I personally like that as I want the cards held to the toughest standards possible. It makes the chase more fun and in reality holds the set to the highest standards making it special when you find examples that truly deserve a high grade.
Here is an example of a card that I think is really nice.