How common is it for a rare item to disappear?

Zoins

Recently, in the 1979-D cent cluster thread, there was a mention of the 1982 cent cluster that went off the grid after it's purchase 21 years ago. This got me wondering, how many well known pieces are acquired and then just disappear, their whereabouts unknown?

Broadstruck

It might very well just be in the hands a collector who either doesn't use the web for this hobby or post items owned.

PerryHall

<< <i>It might very well just be in the hands a collector who either doesn't use the web for this hobby or post items owned. >>



......or wishes to remain anonymous for security reasons.

mr1931S

That thing must have needed a lunchbox to get it out of the Mint!

Nap

Other than institutional collections, some famous private collections, and people that post their holdings to a set registry and coin forum, I wouldn't know where anything is. Most privately owned coins "disappear" while being held privately but eventually pop up.

GhosOfRudy

Happen to have a scan of that story inside the front cover?

Walkerfan

<< <i>Other than institutional collections, some famous private collections, and people that post their holdings to a set registry and coin forum, I wouldn't know where anything is. Most privately owned coins "disappear" while being held privately but eventually pop up. >>

LanLord

Doesn't Charmy have a cent like that?

I'm not sure of the date, but it's a cluster and really quite cool.

Zoins

<< <i>Happen to have a scan of that story inside the front cover? >>



I don't. This was posted by DeliaBug in the 1979-D cent cluster thread. Perhaps he or someone else has it and can share?

Zoins

<< <i>

<< <i>It might very well just be in the hands a collector who either doesn't use the web for this hobby or post items owned. >>



......or wishes to remain anonymous for security reasons. >>



Not knowing what is out there does making collecting fun. You never know when, or from where, something is going to show up.

silverpop

in coin collecting as in life always expect the unexpected to happen

BackroadJunkie

I was just reading this article...

1795 Reeded Edge large cent appears for the first time in 50 years

Zoins

<< <i>I was just reading this article...

1795 Reeded Edge large cent appears for the first time in 50 years >>



That's very cool

It's a treat when the following happens:



<< <i>The coin has been known to the large cent community since 1964, but has never been seen until now >>

Type2

Some way some how they alway's pop up you just don't know when or where.

Zoins

As anyone seen this surface?

BryceM

It's probably sharing a shelf with one of the 1964-D Peace dollars.

I have a handful of coins that I've never shared here, and that won't reappear until after I'm gone. If my kids decide to keep them, it may be a very long time indeed.

1northcoin

Surprised no one has commented on the obvious. When the Maui fires burned, when floods occur, when people die without heirs .... so many ways coins can disappear.

Sapyx

Coins can "disappear" for lots of reasons.
- Very private collectors buy them. Such coins will usually turn up again, but you might need to wait decades between appearances.
- They get exported overseas. They might eventually turn up in auctions overseas, but if it's a foreign language auction (eg German), an English-language search for terms might not reveal it, even if it has actually resurfaced. And unless someone decides to repatriate it, it's lost to the local market.
- Museums obtain them. Such coins don't "disappear", in that they usually become well-catalogued, but they disappear from the market forever, because once a coin goes into a museum collection, it isn't coming out again until the next Dark Age.
- They get stolen. "Normal" coins quickly get on-sold for the thief's profit, but a super-rare coin might be like a stolen super-rare painting: it's so hot you can't sell it to anyone so all you can do is hold on to it.
- Coins get destroyed or lost in natural disasters. 1northcoin mentioned fires; an Australian example, the 1966 gold proof pattern dollar, only 10 were made, and half of them were destroyed in a severe bushfire. Coins lost at sea might get recovered again one day, but they'd become "shipwreck coins"; likewise coins that get buried in the ground and forgotten about, or coins lost when an entire city suffers from an apocalypse (eg. Pompeii, Pripyat, etc) might one day be recovered, they might not, but for now, they're gone.
- Coins get destroyed deliberately. Humans are weird, and rich humans doubly so. Not all rich collectors have the "custodian of history" mentality that most of the rest of us have. I'm reminded of the story of the fellow who bought up a dozen or so ancient gold coins, then turned those coins into a set of false teeth. He had the dentist-jeweller craft the teeth so the coin portraits would still be visible. Coins might also be destroyed deliberately if a thief (see above) sees no other option to cash in on their stolen goods: an anonymous blob of melted gold is much easier to sell than a super-rare coin that the whole Internet knows was stolen.

CaptHenway

A certain 1913 nickel comes to mind.

DCW

That sure is spectacular! And I love the photography, makes the shadow look like a menacing bird of prey beneath the cluster.

JBK

Most of the coins that might be the topic of such speculation haven't "disappeared", they are very much visible and available to their owners.

They may have disappeared from public view, but then again most are only in the public view when sold or auctioned.

I have a super-rare error (not as dramatic as the one shown) that I have shown on the forum a few times but otherwise it has been kept safely tucked away in my stuff, where it will remain. Someday it could hit the market and no doubt someone will wonder where it has been hiding all those years.

There are famous rarities that I do wonder about, such as the dramatic off-center Morgan dollar that was sold throught the GSA in the 1970s. It made the front page of Coin World at the time, before it was sold by the GSA. As I recall, a non-collector received it. I heard years later that a dealer had bought it at some point and still had it. It's "disappeared" to me, but the current owner certainly knows where it is.

DelawareDoons

Only a small fraction of collectors engage online. That fraction is growing, but slowly.

There's a lotta really neat stuff that disappears into strong hands for a long time.

1madman

When that same 1893-s dime was available over and over again a few years ago, I think most of the coin community wished it would disappear into strong hands. Seemed like nobody wanted it as it dropped in price over and over again.

DCW

I wonder just how many rarities "disappear" in the literal sense of the word. For instance, in the world of exonumia, rarities abound. There are several Civil War tokens that are presumed unique. So, say the owner passes away and their collection is inherited by someone that doesn't understand what they have, and instead sees these discs as worthless mementos? Trash day is coming and it gets tossed with the aging furniture and numismatic books/auction catalogs.
It could happen, and when rarities are known by only a single example, the importance of protecting that for the future is clear.
Lest they disappear for good.

BLUEJAYWAY

@1northcoin said:
Surprised no one has commented on the obvious. When the Maui fires burned, when floods occur, when people die without heirs .... so many ways coins can disappear.

Always thought about natural disasters playing havoc with collectibles. I will add tornados/hurricanes as well could be responsible for a disappearance.

Catbert

Some Stellas can be found in a landfill!

Proofmorgan

I would say the majority of "strong hands" do not engage online. We have some here that that graciously share some of their collection with us, but most are locked away for quite some time and "off the radar".

For example:

The Pogue collection was a huge offering of exceptional coins. How many do you see posted online or hear about today? For the ultra-rarities it is also likely about security and confidentiality as much as anything else.

pocketpiececommems

@Zoins said:
Recently, in the 1979-D cent cluster thread, there was a mention of the 1982 cent cluster that went off the grid after it's purchase 21 years ago. This got me wondering, how many well known pieces are acquired and then just disappear, their whereabouts unknown?

What kind of holder would PCGS put it in. And would it straight grade

1northcoin

I see the title of this thread is not limited to coins. A "rare item" which disappeared are the panels from the Amber Room in Catherine's Palace outside of St. Petersburg. Many interesting theories have been offered but for some the search goes onward.

(This is my photo of the room next to the Amber Room. I looked, and the original Amber Panels (as opposed to the replaced ones that Putin is viewing in the first photo) did not appear to be hidden there. )

1northcoin

Now if I had only looked under that table.

Byers

@Nap said:
Other than institutional collections, some famous private collections, and people that post their holdings to a set registry and coin forum, I wouldn't know where anything is. Most privately owned coins "disappear" while being held privately but eventually pop up.

Yes. This unique Drape Bust Dollar sold in Stack’s in 1973 and ‘disappeared’ into a collection for almost 50 years. Andy Lustig purchased it in 2022 and immediately sold it to me. I placed it in another collection where it will likely sit for decades.

https://mikebyers.com/44551874.html

Zoins

@Byers said:

@Nap said:
Other than institutional collections, some famous private collections, and people that post their holdings to a set registry and coin forum, I wouldn't know where anything is. Most privately owned coins "disappear" while being held privately but eventually pop up.

Yes. This unique Drape Bust Dollar sold in Stack’s in 1973 and ‘disappeared’ into a collection for almost 50 years. Andy Lustig purchased it in 2022 and immediately sold it to me. I placed it in another collection where it will likely sit for decades.

https://mikebyers.com/44551874.html

Great coin Mike @Byers and Andy @MrEureka!

I'm glad they were able to get a TrueView before it sold and disappeared again!

Do you still have images to share from the first time you sold it?

The only issue is that the pedigree should say:

Parmelee-Newcomer-Byers-Lustig-Byers

yspsales

As a failed artist and a history buff, I am always amazed at the number of looted WW2 art that shows up at auctions in the 21st century.

Has there been much of this on the numimatic front? Metals and collectors being mostly US centric, might be less common.

WCC

@yspsales said:
As a failed artist and a history buff, I am always amazed at the number of looted WW2 art that shows up at auctions in the 21st century.

Has there been much of this on the numimatic front? Metals and collectors being mostly US centric, might be less common.

I suspect more than most might think. How good have inventory controls been at museums generally, especially in the past? Not so great I suspect. Coins are much smaller than most other objects and much easier to steal undetected.