I certainly do not want to get into a back and forth. It's not my product and Steve can sell it any way he wishes. But to call it a smart business move to make an impression -- I disagree.
OK - here it is, my DAY 3 (or 2.5 depending on how you want to count Wednesday) REPORT!
I woke up a little late today, to be honest I'm not conditioned well enough for all this walking and standing and stretching over cases, etc. I was dragging this morning, but fortunately the family was dragging MORE so it afforded me about 90 minutes to check things out before we headed to downtown for some real vacationing.
Went by BBCE first thing, and here is what I saw that I thought was interesting or awesome: 1975 Football box, there can't be too many of these out there can there? It's certainly nothing like 1975 Baseball.
1976 Football wax box - this was a new addition to the case for Friday, this sucker wasn't there earlier in the week. The 1976 Cello box has been there. I ALMOST pulled the trigger on the wax box, but since I still have no focus on collecting unopened I left it for the masses to clamor over.
Obviously I like football, was a nice selection of early 80s racks and even some 1976 Football racks - I heard these walked into the show and landed in the cases shortly thereafter
And...pics are posted and roughly 30 board members are there, with several offering to help procure or set aside product for those not able to attend. >>
No doubt. Probably could have emailed Steve immediately and bought one from home. He could have offered them online and immediately sold out.
OK - enough of this other silly stuff, let's get to the update.
DAY 3 - are maybe it's day 2.5 depending on how you want to count? I'm rounding up, because that's how I feel (which isn't necessarily a good thing!).
I was DRAGGING this morning. I'm still not conditioned for all the standing, walking, stretching to see cards in cases. My feet and back are AWFUL, but I know it's all for fun so I keep pressing on.
We were set to do some real vacationing today, so I knew I only had a few minutes at the show this morning, 90 minutes MAX to be exact.
I headed for BBCE first off to lend an assist, as well as I was interested to see what might wander out for the day.
Here's what I saw that I thought was interesting, or awesome, or all of the above:
1975 Football wax box - definitely don't see as many of these as you do the 1975 mini boxes, huh?
1976 Football cello (that one has been there the entire time), new today was a 1976 Football wax box! OH, WALTER!!!
You do not know how close I came to pulling the trigger on this monster, but I have absolutely no strategy in collecting unopened right now and decided I'd leave this one to the masses. After seeing vintagefun's rip of the 76 pack, I was so tempted. Then again, these packs are like 4X that price - thankfully I was able to walk away. I mean seriously, though, who doesn't just throw $7k PER BOX around when you get the chance?
Some great pics, bounce~thanks for posting them! Steve's booth is without question the place to go for vintage unopened product. Great assortment and variety on his part and putting it all together in such an impressive fashion.
Can't help but notice no baseball racks before 1978, though~pre-78 product gets tougher and tougher to find.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I am finding myself more and more interested in rack packs, I just think they look so cool and give you a real "taste" of the product.
Early 80s football racks
Too young for ya? How about some 1976 Football RACKS then? I heard these walked into the show, and landed in the BBCE case shortly thereafter. One little note - at least on a couple you could see the "ding" from the sorter on the bottom edge of the top card in the section. Not sure how that impacts value, in a weird way it maybe makes them better? Not sure, regardless they were very nice.
I hear you - enough of the BBCE pictures, Bounce! We want to hear about what you found today that isn't unopened!
I get it! So let's get to it...again I had 90 minutes max, and I probably goofed around at least 30 of those talking to people like CPAMike. I tried and tried to convince him that ripping was better, but his mind is made up! He is so anti-rip that he doesn't even take the wrapping off the boxes he gets that way in the first place, whether it's BBCE or not - that is HOW STAUNCH his stance is as the President and Founder of the Anti-Ripping Association. Do not ask him to rip again, anything...EVER!!!
Once I was able to "rip" myself away from the BBCE booth, I found myself in a Star Basketball gravity vortex. I had seen these guys earlier in the week, as well as a lot of their stuff online before, but I didn't stop to talk because the prices were pretty high IMO. But I knew today was really my last shot, didn't look like they'd really sold a lot of it so I figured if there was a chance, this was it.
If you don't know Star Basketball, quickly they are WAY WAY WAY more rare than the 1986 Fleer. It's not even a comparison, they are much tougher to find and really tough in high grade because of card stock, printing and packing issues, etc. etc. However, there were also some reprints that wandered in which kind of clouded the situation, so much that some companies won't grade them. Regardless, Star is the "true" RCs (I use that term a little loosely but they were issued prior to 1986 on these guys) of Drexler, Jordan, Barkley, Olajuwon, Dominique, Isiah, Stockton and Ewing.
After taking a big run at 1986 Fleer over the past year, I had decided that I wanted to pick up these guys Star RCs, in BGS 9s if I could but I'd probably consider about anything I could find. Well, turns out this dealer was up for some dealing today, I pulled a big stack and we traded my cash for his cards.
I'm SUPER THRILLED to have grabbed these today, it made my morning an absolute success!
Oh, and in the "star" watch category, on the way back to the hotel I ran across -
Jim Kelly - shook his hand, really great dude and inspiration to cancer survivors but also parents, they raised their girls right and what a challenge to do the same with my sons
Frank Robinson - didn't say Hi, he wasn't too smiley (what's new) and I figured I'd just leave him be but still neat to see these guys out and about like that instead of just behind the table signing
Anyway - that's the wrap for today's action!
I will be back ONE MORE TIME tomorrow - I've got to add a signature or two, and I'm gonna take a final lap around the show and see if I can add anything else to this weeks haul. I will also give some final thoughts about the dealers in general and the show as a whole, but I want to give it one last day to see if I change my mind about a couple things. Stay tuned, and hopefully you guys are enjoying the updates and pictures as much as I am giving the reports.
<< <i>The craziest dealer tables I saw were these:
1. One dealer had a display case (2' x 3' or so) full of stacks of PSA 8/9 '86 Fleer Jordans, and one PSA 10. 2. Another dealer had the same size case jam-packed with stacks of PSA graded OPC Gretzky rookies. All grades from 1 up to 8. 3. The third dealer had display cases with these cards (all PSA 10) '86 Fleer Jordan, '81 Topps Montana, three '84 Topps Elways (yes, THREE PSA 10s!), two PSA 10 Steve Yzerman OPC rookies, two OPC Mark Messier rookies, two OPC Patrick Roy rookies, FOUR Mario Lemieux OPC rookies, and oh yeah, a PSA 10 OPC Ken Dryden rookie! Again, every card at #3 was a PSA 10. I just remembered, the dealer also had a PSA 9 (I know, after all those others, what's so big about a 9) Nolan Ryan rookie. >>
<< <i>I've been in the market for 1979 unopened Hockey vending/wax and I'm both bummed and a tad upset that these were cherry-picked for the National. Oh, well. Not surprised they're gone at 3500 per. >>
More reason to make it to the National every year... This is brought up every year
<< <i>The craziest dealer tables I saw were these:
1. One dealer had a display case (2' x 3' or so) full of stacks of PSA 8/9 '86 Fleer Jordans, and one PSA 10. 2. Another dealer had the same size case jam-packed with stacks of PSA graded OPC Gretzky rookies. All grades from 1 up to 8. 3. The third dealer had display cases with these cards (all PSA 10) '86 Fleer Jordan, '81 Topps Montana, three '84 Topps Elways (yes, THREE PSA 10s!), two PSA 10 Steve Yzerman OPC rookies, two OPC Mark Messier rookies, two OPC Patrick Roy rookies, FOUR Mario Lemieux OPC rookies, and oh yeah, a PSA 10 OPC Ken Dryden rookie! Again, every card at #3 was a PSA 10. I just remembered, the dealer also had a PSA 9 (I know, after all those others, what's so big about a 9) Nolan Ryan rookie. >>
I think im gonna faint >>
I would say on Item #3 that was probably Psa Al he has those kind of Gems every year.
<< <i>The craziest dealer tables I saw were these:
1. One dealer had a display case (2' x 3' or so) full of stacks of PSA 8/9 '86 Fleer Jordans, and one PSA 10. 2. Another dealer had the same size case jam-packed with stacks of PSA graded OPC Gretzky rookies. All grades from 1 up to 8. 3. The third dealer had display cases with these cards (all PSA 10) '86 Fleer Jordan, '81 Topps Montana, three '84 Topps Elways (yes, THREE PSA 10s!), two PSA 10 Steve Yzerman OPC rookies, two OPC Mark Messier rookies, two OPC Patrick Roy rookies, FOUR Mario Lemieux OPC rookies, and oh yeah, a PSA 10 OPC Ken Dryden rookie! Again, every card at #3 was a PSA 10. I just remembered, the dealer also had a PSA 9 (I know, after all those others, what's so big about a 9) Nolan Ryan rookie. >>
I think im gonna faint >>
I would say on Item #3 that was probably Psa Al he has those kind of Gems every year. >>
I was told by a "Natty Insider" that the table was indeed PSA Al's and that PSA 9 Nolan Ryan was a Milton Bradley. Asking price was a modest 75K.
Thanks for the stories and pics Bounce. Bummed I couldn't make it to Chicago but I am living vicariously through the anecdotes and tremendous purchases by other CU members. ‘
Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona.
Thanks for the updates, especially the Star pics! Good to see a variety of product for those of us who don't give a rip (sorry Mike) about unopened. Thanks again.
Definitely appreciate the write ups as others have said. I know it takes time to take/upload/link photos so thanks Bounce. Nice pickups on the Star cards. Did you get any others besides the Phi Slamma Jamma guys and Barkley (like MJ, Nique or Isiah)? Were there many dealers with Star cards? And were they mostly raw or BGS (since they're the main TPG who does grade them). Sorry for all the questions. I am thinking of starting a Star BK collection soon. Looking forward to day 4 recap. Good luck on your hunt.
Just got back to my hotel room after my first National. I am still overwhelmed by what I saw today. I really appreciate how large our hobby really is. I picked up a 1994 SP Baseball Sealed Case, still had the Upper Deck factory seal tape and the shipping label. I noticed that UD reinforced the corners of the cases back then. I stopped by the BBCE booth and most of the nice FB stuff Bounce had in his pics were gone. I ended up buying a 1981 Topps FB Rack Box for $1500.
I stopped by the Panini and Upper Deck displays, both had great customer service. Dave Sharp at Panini is one of the best and he really cares about the collectors. I'm not crazy about Panini's newer FB product, but I know that they will stand behind their product better than anyone.
I stopped by the Steel City, Blowout, and D&A displays to peruse the modern FB boxes. The prices at D&A were generally the same as website, some products were actually more expensive at the show. The sales guys at each display recognized my name and called over their manager to meet me. I don't know if that is good thing or if I spend wayyyyy too much on modern product, I did get a nice discount from Blowout on some 2015 Leaf product.
The variety of dealers was nice. There were those older pack rat type dealers that you don't see at local shows anymore. It does seem that a good chunk of the vintage dealers are on the older side and didn't look to healthy. I wonder if there will be a changing of the guard over the next few years?
Looking around at the other attendees, it was nice to see quite a few younger collectors there. Always good for the hobby to bring in new blood. There wasn't a lot of diversity in the crowd, except for a few Asian collectors. I'm not saying it is good or bad, but I do see a few more minority collectors in LA, maybe it is the location.
Overall an amazing experience and I will probably make this at least a bi-annual event for me. Chicago works out well for me, I'm not sure if I would go to Cleveland or the East Coast.
<< <i>Definitely appreciate the write ups as others have said. I know it takes time to take/upload/link photos so thanks Bounce. Nice pickups on the Star cards. Did you get any others besides the Phi Slamma Jamma guys and Barkley (like MJ, Nique or Isiah)? Were there many dealers with Star cards? And were they mostly raw or BGS (since they're the main TPG who does grade them). Sorry for all the questions. I am thinking of starting a Star BK collection soon. Looking forward to day 4 recap. Good luck on your hunt. >>
I did see an oversize Interlake Star Jordan that was slabbed PSA 10 at the PSA booth. It had the hologram on the label so it is a recent slab. Does PSA grade this Star Jordan but the not the others?
<< <i>1976 Football wax box - this was a new addition to the case for Friday, this sucker wasn't there earlier in the week. The 1976 Cello box has been there. I ALMOST pulled the trigger on the wax box, but since I still have no focus on collecting unopened I left it for the masses to clamor over. >>
Come to Butthead.
Snorto~
P.S. I forgot to say thanks, David, to you (and the others) for the National reports and, especially, photos!
Started the day on time and in no hurry. Went by BBCE just to see if they dragged something else out of the back and sure enough... 1972 Baseball wax packs - I'm guessing maybe these also walked into the show but not sure
1971 Topps football wax
No other significant additions that I noted. I did notice that the 1976 Football box was gone (no surprise there), and so were a couple of the 1976 Football racks. I really liked that box but wasn't ready to drop that kind of loot, so by the time I was done all the 1976 Football racks and 1985 Football wax boxes were gone.
At this point, decided to just wander a little and try to catch photos of some of the items others had noted.
Here's a look at the Ruth game used bat
Here are pics of the Brady/Elway/various hockey guy PSA 10s. Just so there's no question, I had talked to this guy on Wednesday AND Thursday. He has great cards for sure and they are fun to look at, but he wasn't "selling". Every single one of these had a price well higher than anything that was close to making sense. He'd talk to you all day long, but IN MY OPINION he was just showing off. That's cool I guess, but for me I was there to spend money not pat other people on the back. Still neat to see I guess.
This Manning card is cool, but the autographs on every single one I've ever seen are just horrible and fading. A 9 grade on the auto is a joke on this thing.
And the final "star" sighting - got this dude to put some ink on a 3,000 hit club ball
I just need to add Jeter and ARod and I'll have the entire "modern day" club - this ball is one of my top 10 favorite collection pieces.
My feeling today was that prices were softening up but it was a case by case basis. What I think I can safely say is that trying to deal with people with face piercings or mohawks is likely to get you nowhere. There's a group of "dealers", if that's what you want to call them, that just don't get it. What they don't understand is there are people like me, who went home with money in my pocket because they decided to "play poker" and "call my bluff" on prices. Well, I'm like an elephant and I remember faces FOREVER, and I would never consider buy anything from those guys regardless of price going forward. It's not really a principle thing for me so much as it is I want to enjoy my time at the show, because it's supposed to be fun. The economic part of it sometimes makes that difficult, but dealing with people who are just rude and talk everything you own down and everything they have for sale up just wears thin with me quickly.
I would say this about the BBCE crew - they know their stuff, they are courteous, they are helpful and I think Steve and crew understand that it's a relationship. And ultimately they did have some stuff for sale this week that was well below what they could for it, and they sold it anyway. Give a little, get a lot - I understand better after meeting them in person why so many people think so highly of them. There were some others at the show that were the same, mostly the people I ended up buying from.
The other thing I'd note from this week is that I am sick and tired of hearing "it's high end for the grade". I do appreciate the "buy the card not the holder" idea, but if I had a dollar for every time I heard the previous phrase in 3 days I could put a nice down payment on a house. There must have been 50 "best in show" PSA 9 86 Jordans here this week, all priced at like $4,500 and up. Virtually EVERY T206 I couldn't make a deal on was because it was "the best centering" the owner had EVER SEEN on that card in that grade. OK, great - guess who owns those cards as of tonight? With all the focus on the phrase, including stickers on already graded cards praising their awesomeness (I did meet Brent this week, I think he's a top notch guy with a top notch outfit but I'm not a fan of the high-end sticker deal), the rhetoric around card grades has gotten out of hand. It strips a fair bit of the joy out of the hobby in my opinion because it take opinions and tries to make them fact, and it enters into the card for cash negotiation with a real negative tone. Cards in high grade holders are generally in there for a reason, you don't really need to talk them up. And most people can see good centering, that's one aspect but not everything and stating the obvious is just "salesmanship", and I'm not sure that really works anymore. I know it doesn't with me, and again I've a ton of cash still in my pocket that was intended to be exchanged for cards this week.
One thing missing from the show, and most shows really, is some kind of semi-organized "trading zone". If I go to AC, and I plan to as of now, I'll try and organize something that I think makes sense. What I've got in mind is early evening or early morning meetings with the folks attending to see if they can deal with each other. There's kind of a taboo against that out on the show floor, which I understand as the dealers paid to be there, but if another guy is walking around with something you'd be interested and you've got something he'd want, there's no real avenue currently to facilitate that. I think it's worth some sort of try to do it, so I've got a year to figure it out and will see what I can come up with.
I've read other places including here that the hobby is slowly dying, and after what I saw this week I'd say I believe more than ever that's a real risk. Two major issues I see are that there are virtually NO YOUNG PEOPLE at these shows. I'm in my early 40s and I'm one of the youngest, certainly in the bottom third I'd say. Second, all these auction houses is out of control. There's almost an auction a week now, and there are some auction houses running some stuff every day. I realize that's what eBay is too, but all these places with their varying buyer's premiums and everything is just too much. I can't even keep track of all my bidder IDs or passwords or numbers or blah blah blah. It's too "economic" focused - if you're gonna do an auction then wait until you've really got a good one and then order it with some reason and purpose, not just a random assortment. Again, just my opinion.
I'll leave it there for now, and simply add that the CU crew I met seemed like a good group of folks. I do enjoy being here on the board most of the time, and I hope to meet some more of you folks in the future.
Thanks for reading, I've enjoyed giving the updates and thanks for the kind words in support of the posts. I'm not scheduled to go tomorrow so this will probably be it. Good luck to anyone going tomorrow, maybe it will be blow out Sunday for you!
Those are some major RGIII cards. If he can come back to recapture his rookie campaign magic, even if it means morphing into more of a pocket passer, you will be very happy to picked them up when you did.
That 1976 Topps Football box must have gone to Butthead. I'm surprised any of the racks are left. They don't show up in the wild too often and BBCE hasn't offered them up on their site for a long time. $350 does seem steep if you look at them in terms of potential rip value, but that's not how unopened collectors price them... it's all about scarcity.
If they survive the National and make it to the website, I just may have to pick one up... then again, I may not have the chance given I am far from the only person eagerly awaiting BBCE's site update next week to see what's left and what they picked up at the show. All part of the annual post-National feeding frenzy!
I wonder what a 1976 Topps rack with a Payton RC showing on top would command?
Thanks again for taking the time to share your National experience and safe travels!
Am I the only person that views hundreds of the same 80s cards in high grade as not rare?? This stuff was around in quantity not so long ago. There is plenty more too. Any 50s cards like that in quantity??
Sorry. I just remember how everyone became a dealer just by pulling 80s cards out of packs. IMO. fools gold...there is just too much of this stuff available.
Bounce, This was a great read all the way through. Even though I was there on Friday and saw pretty much everything you posted, this was still great to recap everything, and the pictures to go along with it were awesome. I dunno how I missed that Bambino bat. I saw a Joe Jackson one, but I've read a few people being able to pick it up (and swing it!), that woulda made my day for sure!
Sorry gang - one more thing I'd meant to mention and kept forgetting...
I was standing around Card Country booth when a MAJOR DEAL went down. I believe it was a top 15 Mantle basic registry set, and a Clemente PSA 8 RC, together in one deal!
I'd never met Jeff before but he seemed like a nice guy and I know others have said good things about them before. Their cards were definitely great looking, virtually all of it was super well centered. Their prices reflected that, although I'd also heard that about them so I wasn't disappointed that we couldn't find a common ground on some 1956 PSA 8s.
Anyway, I heard the price of the deal, it almost made me croak but in fairness to those guys I'm not going to divulge the amount. But it was pretty crazy to be standing around when a deal that size went down, for sure.
Bounce - excellent reporting. Out of all the Nationals posts, your thread was my favorite. Like someone stated, it takes time to post photos and write and I certainly enjoyed it. Big thanks to everyone else who did the same. I certainly enjoyed the boards a bit more this past week. Cant wait to see everyone's pickups once they come back and start settling in.
Great stuff bounce. I would be interested in trading area or meeting next year I hope to get to AC also.
Fred
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
Bounce thanks for the thread. It is great to get a sense of the National without going. I have never been to one and the updates you had made it feel as if I was part of the big event.
This is by far my favorite thread in some time. Great work and thank you for the very detailed synopsis of the entire weekend. I've never been to a National yet, but hope to make it to Atlantic City next year as I'm in upstate NY. Threads like these help me to prepare for the unknown and also what to expect from dealers and other collectors. I think your "one on one - collector dealing with collector" idea is a good one and I hope your idea gets implemented. Again, thank you and I hope a good time was had by all that attended. I was pretty depressed at first because as was the same with other years, I couldn't get time off, but I've lived this weekend at the show through the numerous threads that were created. Safe travels back to Texas, and can't wait to meet you guys next year.
Always looking for OPC "tape intact" baseball wax boxes, and 1984 OPC baseball PSA 10's for my set. Please PM or email me if you have any available.
I wanted to say I agree with you in being tired of the "high end for the grade" jibber jabber. Sort of defeats the purpose of a TPG, no? Sure there are some slabbed cards that are over graded or undergraded, but it is an extremely small portion. 99.9% of cards are graded correctly and deserve the holder they're sitting in. The truth is, only one out of several thousand cards, on average, is truly "high end for the grade." But if you listened to dealers and to certain fellow collectors, you'd think PSA is off by a full grade point on virtually every card in the hobby. That's simply not the case. Maybe, Mr. Collector, your card is high end for the grade.... But maybe, just MAYBE, there is a flaw with your card that your eyes didn't detect.
Comments
I woke up a little late today, to be honest I'm not conditioned well enough for all this walking and standing and stretching over cases, etc. I was dragging this morning, but fortunately the family was dragging MORE so it afforded me about 90 minutes to check things out before we headed to downtown for some real vacationing.
Went by BBCE first thing, and here is what I saw that I thought was interesting or awesome:
1975 Football box, there can't be too many of these out there can there? It's certainly nothing like 1975 Baseball.
1976 Football wax box - this was a new addition to the case for Friday, this sucker wasn't there earlier in the week. The 1976 Cello box has been there. I ALMOST pulled the trigger on the wax box, but since I still have no focus on collecting unopened I left it for the masses to clamor over.
Obviously I like football, was a nice selection of early 80s racks and even some 1976 Football racks - I heard these walked into the show and landed in the cases shortly thereafter
1978, 1979 and 1980 Baseball racks
<< <i>
And...pics are posted and roughly 30 board members are there, with several offering to help procure or set aside product for those not able to attend. >>
No doubt. Probably could have emailed Steve immediately and bought one from home. He could have offered them online and immediately sold out.
DAY 3 - are maybe it's day 2.5 depending on how you want to count? I'm rounding up, because that's how I feel (which isn't necessarily a good thing!).
I was DRAGGING this morning. I'm still not conditioned for all the standing, walking, stretching to see cards in cases. My feet and back are AWFUL, but I know it's all for fun so I keep pressing on.
We were set to do some real vacationing today, so I knew I only had a few minutes at the show this morning, 90 minutes MAX to be exact.
I headed for BBCE first off to lend an assist, as well as I was interested to see what might wander out for the day.
Here's what I saw that I thought was interesting, or awesome, or all of the above:
1975 Football wax box - definitely don't see as many of these as you do the 1975 mini boxes, huh?
1976 Football cello (that one has been there the entire time), new today was a 1976 Football wax box! OH, WALTER!!!
You do not know how close I came to pulling the trigger on this monster, but I have absolutely no strategy in collecting unopened right now and decided I'd leave this one to the masses. After seeing vintagefun's rip of the 76 pack, I was so tempted. Then again, these packs are like 4X that price - thankfully I was able to walk away. I mean seriously, though, who doesn't just throw $7k PER BOX around when you get the chance?
Can't help but notice no baseball racks before 1978, though~pre-78 product gets tougher and tougher to find.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Early 80s football racks
Too young for ya? How about some 1976 Football RACKS then? I heard these walked into the show, and landed in the BBCE case shortly thereafter. One little note - at least on a couple you could see the "ding" from the sorter on the bottom edge of the top card in the section. Not sure how that impacts value, in a weird way it maybe makes them better? Not sure, regardless they were very nice.
1978-1980 Baseball racks
I get it! So let's get to it...again I had 90 minutes max, and I probably goofed around at least 30 of those talking to people like CPAMike. I tried and tried to convince him that ripping was better, but his mind is made up! He is so anti-rip that he doesn't even take the wrapping off the boxes he gets that way in the first place, whether it's BBCE or not - that is HOW STAUNCH his stance is as the President and Founder of the Anti-Ripping Association. Do not ask him to rip again, anything...EVER!!!
Once I was able to "rip" myself away from the BBCE booth, I found myself in a Star Basketball gravity vortex. I had seen these guys earlier in the week, as well as a lot of their stuff online before, but I didn't stop to talk because the prices were pretty high IMO. But I knew today was really my last shot, didn't look like they'd really sold a lot of it so I figured if there was a chance, this was it.
If you don't know Star Basketball, quickly they are WAY WAY WAY more rare than the 1986 Fleer. It's not even a comparison, they are much tougher to find and really tough in high grade because of card stock, printing and packing issues, etc. etc. However, there were also some reprints that wandered in which kind of clouded the situation, so much that some companies won't grade them. Regardless, Star is the "true" RCs (I use that term a little loosely but they were issued prior to 1986 on these guys) of Drexler, Jordan, Barkley, Olajuwon, Dominique, Isiah, Stockton and Ewing.
After taking a big run at 1986 Fleer over the past year, I had decided that I wanted to pick up these guys Star RCs, in BGS 9s if I could but I'd probably consider about anything I could find. Well, turns out this dealer was up for some dealing today, I pulled a big stack and we traded my cash for his cards.
I'm SUPER THRILLED to have grabbed these today, it made my morning an absolute success!
Jim Kelly - shook his hand, really great dude and inspiration to cancer survivors but also parents, they raised their girls right and what a challenge to do the same with my sons
Frank Robinson - didn't say Hi, he wasn't too smiley (what's new) and I figured I'd just leave him be but still neat to see these guys out and about like that instead of just behind the table signing
Anyway - that's the wrap for today's action!
I will be back ONE MORE TIME tomorrow - I've got to add a signature or two, and I'm gonna take a final lap around the show and see if I can add anything else to this weeks haul. I will also give some final thoughts about the dealers in general and the show as a whole, but I want to give it one last day to see if I change my mind about a couple things. Stay tuned, and hopefully you guys are enjoying the updates and pictures as much as I am giving the reports.
<< <i>The craziest dealer tables I saw were these:
1. One dealer had a display case (2' x 3' or so) full of stacks of PSA 8/9 '86 Fleer Jordans, and one PSA 10.
2. Another dealer had the same size case jam-packed with stacks of PSA graded OPC Gretzky rookies. All grades from 1 up to 8.
3. The third dealer had display cases with these cards (all PSA 10) '86 Fleer Jordan, '81 Topps Montana, three '84 Topps Elways (yes, THREE PSA 10s!), two PSA 10 Steve Yzerman OPC rookies, two OPC Mark Messier rookies, two OPC Patrick Roy rookies, FOUR Mario Lemieux OPC rookies, and oh yeah, a PSA 10 OPC Ken Dryden rookie! Again, every card at #3 was a PSA 10. I just remembered, the dealer also had a PSA 9 (I know, after all those others, what's so big about a 9) Nolan Ryan rookie. >>
I think im gonna faint
<< <i>I've been in the market for 1979 unopened Hockey vending/wax and I'm both bummed and a tad upset that these were cherry-picked for the National. Oh, well. Not surprised they're gone at 3500 per. >>
More reason to make it to the National every year... This is brought up every year
<< <i>
<< <i>The craziest dealer tables I saw were these:
1. One dealer had a display case (2' x 3' or so) full of stacks of PSA 8/9 '86 Fleer Jordans, and one PSA 10.
2. Another dealer had the same size case jam-packed with stacks of PSA graded OPC Gretzky rookies. All grades from 1 up to 8.
3. The third dealer had display cases with these cards (all PSA 10) '86 Fleer Jordan, '81 Topps Montana, three '84 Topps Elways (yes, THREE PSA 10s!), two PSA 10 Steve Yzerman OPC rookies, two OPC Mark Messier rookies, two OPC Patrick Roy rookies, FOUR Mario Lemieux OPC rookies, and oh yeah, a PSA 10 OPC Ken Dryden rookie! Again, every card at #3 was a PSA 10. I just remembered, the dealer also had a PSA 9 (I know, after all those others, what's so big about a 9) Nolan Ryan rookie. >>
I think im gonna faint >>
I would say on Item #3 that was probably Psa Al he has those kind of Gems every year.
<< <i>But to call it a smart business move to make an impression -- I disagree. >>
It's called advertising, or promoting your business... there's many forms of it.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The craziest dealer tables I saw were these:
1. One dealer had a display case (2' x 3' or so) full of stacks of PSA 8/9 '86 Fleer Jordans, and one PSA 10.
2. Another dealer had the same size case jam-packed with stacks of PSA graded OPC Gretzky rookies. All grades from 1 up to 8.
3. The third dealer had display cases with these cards (all PSA 10) '86 Fleer Jordan, '81 Topps Montana, three '84 Topps Elways (yes, THREE PSA 10s!), two PSA 10 Steve Yzerman OPC rookies, two OPC Mark Messier rookies, two OPC Patrick Roy rookies, FOUR Mario Lemieux OPC rookies, and oh yeah, a PSA 10 OPC Ken Dryden rookie! Again, every card at #3 was a PSA 10. I just remembered, the dealer also had a PSA 9 (I know, after all those others, what's so big about a 9) Nolan Ryan rookie. >>
I think im gonna faint >>
I would say on Item #3 that was probably Psa Al he has those kind of Gems every year. >>
I was told by a "Natty Insider" that the table was indeed PSA Al's and that PSA 9 Nolan Ryan was a Milton Bradley. Asking price was a modest 75K.
Thanks for the stories and pics Bounce. Bummed I couldn't make it to Chicago but I am living vicariously through the anecdotes and tremendous purchases by other CU members.
‘
Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona.
-George F. Will
I stopped by the Panini and Upper Deck displays, both had great customer service. Dave Sharp at Panini is one of the best and he really cares about the collectors. I'm not crazy about Panini's newer FB product, but I know that they will stand behind their product better than anyone.
I stopped by the Steel City, Blowout, and D&A displays to peruse the modern FB boxes. The prices at D&A were generally the same as website, some products were actually more expensive at the show. The sales guys at each display recognized my name and called over their manager to meet me. I don't know if that is good thing or if I spend wayyyyy too much on modern product, I did get a nice discount from Blowout on some 2015 Leaf product.
The variety of dealers was nice. There were those older pack rat type dealers that you don't see at local shows anymore. It does seem that a good chunk of the vintage dealers are on the older side and didn't look to healthy. I wonder if there will be a changing of the guard over the next few years?
Looking around at the other attendees, it was nice to see quite a few younger collectors there. Always good for the hobby to bring in new blood. There wasn't a lot of diversity in the crowd, except for a few Asian collectors. I'm not saying it is good or bad, but I do see a few more minority collectors in LA, maybe it is the location.
Overall an amazing experience and I will probably make this at least a bi-annual event for me. Chicago works out well for me, I'm not sure if I would go to Cleveland or the East Coast.
<< <i>Definitely appreciate the write ups as others have said. I know it takes time to take/upload/link photos so thanks Bounce. Nice pickups on the Star cards. Did you get any others besides the Phi Slamma Jamma guys and Barkley (like MJ, Nique or Isiah)? Were there many dealers with Star cards? And were they mostly raw or BGS (since they're the main TPG who does grade them). Sorry for all the questions. I am thinking of starting a Star BK collection soon. Looking forward to day 4 recap. Good luck on your hunt. >>
I did see an oversize Interlake Star Jordan that was slabbed PSA 10 at the PSA booth. It had the hologram on the label so it is a recent slab. Does PSA grade this Star Jordan but the not the others?
<< <i>1976 Football wax box - this was a new addition to the case for Friday, this sucker wasn't there earlier in the week. The 1976 Cello box has been there. I ALMOST pulled the trigger on the wax box, but since I still have no focus on collecting unopened I left it for the masses to clamor over.
Come to Butthead.
Snorto~
P.S. I forgot to say thanks, David, to you (and the others) for the National reports and, especially, photos!
Started the day on time and in no hurry. Went by BBCE just to see if they dragged something else out of the back and sure enough...
1972 Baseball wax packs - I'm guessing maybe these also walked into the show but not sure
1971 Topps football wax
No other significant additions that I noted. I did notice that the 1976 Football box was gone (no surprise there), and so were a couple of the 1976 Football racks. I really liked that box but wasn't ready to drop that kind of loot, so by the time I was done all the 1976 Football racks and 1985 Football wax boxes were gone.
Here's a look at the Ruth game used bat
Here are pics of the Brady/Elway/various hockey guy PSA 10s. Just so there's no question, I had talked to this guy on Wednesday AND Thursday. He has great cards for sure and they are fun to look at, but he wasn't "selling". Every single one of these had a price well higher than anything that was close to making sense. He'd talk to you all day long, but IN MY OPINION he was just showing off. That's cool I guess, but for me I was there to spend money not pat other people on the back. Still neat to see I guess.
This Manning card is cool, but the autographs on every single one I've ever seen are just horrible and fading. A 9 grade on the auto is a joke on this thing.
And a bunch of Jordan's and Kobe's
Price was so good, we ended up taking these, too.
And these
And this guy, which cost us $45 which I think is as great price on this - sure would have liked to have found a Leaf but never saw one
I just need to add Jeter and ARod and I'll have the entire "modern day" club - this ball is one of my top 10 favorite collection pieces.
My feeling today was that prices were softening up but it was a case by case basis. What I think I can safely say is that trying to deal with people with face piercings or mohawks is likely to get you nowhere. There's a group of "dealers", if that's what you want to call them, that just don't get it. What they don't understand is there are people like me, who went home with money in my pocket because they decided to "play poker" and "call my bluff" on prices. Well, I'm like an elephant and I remember faces FOREVER, and I would never consider buy anything from those guys regardless of price going forward. It's not really a principle thing for me so much as it is I want to enjoy my time at the show, because it's supposed to be fun. The economic part of it sometimes makes that difficult, but dealing with people who are just rude and talk everything you own down and everything they have for sale up just wears thin with me quickly.
I would say this about the BBCE crew - they know their stuff, they are courteous, they are helpful and I think Steve and crew understand that it's a relationship. And ultimately they did have some stuff for sale this week that was well below what they could for it, and they sold it anyway. Give a little, get a lot - I understand better after meeting them in person why so many people think so highly of them. There were some others at the show that were the same, mostly the people I ended up buying from.
The other thing I'd note from this week is that I am sick and tired of hearing "it's high end for the grade". I do appreciate the "buy the card not the holder" idea, but if I had a dollar for every time I heard the previous phrase in 3 days I could put a nice down payment on a house. There must have been 50 "best in show" PSA 9 86 Jordans here this week, all priced at like $4,500 and up. Virtually EVERY T206 I couldn't make a deal on was because it was "the best centering" the owner had EVER SEEN on that card in that grade. OK, great - guess who owns those cards as of tonight? With all the focus on the phrase, including stickers on already graded cards praising their awesomeness (I did meet Brent this week, I think he's a top notch guy with a top notch outfit but I'm not a fan of the high-end sticker deal), the rhetoric around card grades has gotten out of hand. It strips a fair bit of the joy out of the hobby in my opinion because it take opinions and tries to make them fact, and it enters into the card for cash negotiation with a real negative tone. Cards in high grade holders are generally in there for a reason, you don't really need to talk them up. And most people can see good centering, that's one aspect but not everything and stating the obvious is just "salesmanship", and I'm not sure that really works anymore. I know it doesn't with me, and again I've a ton of cash still in my pocket that was intended to be exchanged for cards this week.
One thing missing from the show, and most shows really, is some kind of semi-organized "trading zone". If I go to AC, and I plan to as of now, I'll try and organize something that I think makes sense. What I've got in mind is early evening or early morning meetings with the folks attending to see if they can deal with each other. There's kind of a taboo against that out on the show floor, which I understand as the dealers paid to be there, but if another guy is walking around with something you'd be interested and you've got something he'd want, there's no real avenue currently to facilitate that. I think it's worth some sort of try to do it, so I've got a year to figure it out and will see what I can come up with.
I've read other places including here that the hobby is slowly dying, and after what I saw this week I'd say I believe more than ever that's a real risk. Two major issues I see are that there are virtually NO YOUNG PEOPLE at these shows. I'm in my early 40s and I'm one of the youngest, certainly in the bottom third I'd say. Second, all these auction houses is out of control. There's almost an auction a week now, and there are some auction houses running some stuff every day. I realize that's what eBay is too, but all these places with their varying buyer's premiums and everything is just too much. I can't even keep track of all my bidder IDs or passwords or numbers or blah blah blah. It's too "economic" focused - if you're gonna do an auction then wait until you've really got a good one and then order it with some reason and purpose, not just a random assortment. Again, just my opinion.
I'll leave it there for now, and simply add that the CU crew I met seemed like a good group of folks. I do enjoy being here on the board most of the time, and I hope to meet some more of you folks in the future.
Thanks for reading, I've enjoyed giving the updates and thanks for the kind words in support of the posts. I'm not scheduled to go tomorrow so this will probably be it. Good luck to anyone going tomorrow, maybe it will be blow out Sunday for you!
Look at all that pine tar!
Those are some major RGIII cards. If he can come back to recapture his rookie campaign magic, even if it means morphing into more of a pocket passer, you will be very happy to picked them up when you did.
That 1976 Topps Football box must have gone to Butthead. I'm surprised any of the racks are left. They don't show up in the wild too often and BBCE hasn't offered them up on their site for a long time. $350 does seem steep if you look at them in terms of potential rip value, but that's not how unopened collectors price them... it's all about scarcity.
If they survive the National and make it to the website, I just may have to pick one up... then again, I may not have the chance given I am far from the only person eagerly awaiting BBCE's site update next week to see what's left and what they picked up at the show. All part of the annual post-National feeding frenzy!
I wonder what a 1976 Topps rack with a Payton RC showing on top would command?
Thanks again for taking the time to share your National experience and safe travels!
Snorto~
Sorry. I just remember how everyone became a dealer just by pulling 80s cards out of packs. IMO. fools gold...there is just too much of this stuff available.
This was a great read all the way through. Even though I was there on Friday and saw pretty much everything you posted, this was still great to recap everything, and the pictures to go along with it were awesome. I dunno how I missed that Bambino bat. I saw a Joe Jackson one, but I've read a few people being able to pick it up (and swing it!), that woulda made my day for sure!
Again, great job!
I was standing around Card Country booth when a MAJOR DEAL went down. I believe it was a top 15 Mantle basic registry set, and a Clemente PSA 8 RC, together in one deal!
I'd never met Jeff before but he seemed like a nice guy and I know others have said good things about them before. Their cards were definitely great looking, virtually all of it was super well centered. Their prices reflected that, although I'd also heard that about them so I wasn't disappointed that we couldn't find a common ground on some 1956 PSA 8s.
Anyway, I heard the price of the deal, it almost made me croak but in fairness to those guys I'm not going to divulge the amount. But it was pretty crazy to be standing around when a deal that size went down, for sure.
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
Jeremy
Safe travels back to Texas, and can't wait to meet you guys next year.
sprinkled in through out the year.
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
I wanted to say I agree with you in being tired of the "high end for the grade" jibber jabber. Sort of defeats the purpose of a TPG, no? Sure there are some slabbed cards that are over graded or undergraded, but it is an extremely small portion. 99.9% of cards are graded correctly and deserve the holder they're sitting in. The truth is, only one out of several thousand cards, on average, is truly "high end for the grade." But if you listened to dealers and to certain fellow collectors, you'd think PSA is off by a full grade point on virtually every card in the hobby. That's simply not the case. Maybe, Mr. Collector, your card is high end for the grade.... But maybe, just MAYBE, there is a flaw with your card that your eyes didn't detect.
Anyway, rant over. Thanks again for the updates!