Superlatives abuse killing the hobby?

LochNESS

I feel like every coin on eBay is "very rare" or "extremely rare" ... eBay is not a pure numismatic auction house but even my favorite dealers/firms have been guilty of abusing certain superlatives to attract bidders.

Have they not read, The boy who cried wolf?

I am nearing my wits' end with eBay to the point where I can't stand browsing listings. Earlier today I came across a 1oz Britannia round - excuse me, coin - graded MS69 by our hosts - listed as "very rare and low mintage." I messaged the seller, "hi. Before I bid could you please explain what makes this very rare?" To which they replied, in a sheepish tone, "it is low mintage and good grade."

I'm aware that as I type this rant, my sig advertises my showcase of 35 top pops with mintages under 3k. But that is simply factual. I don't tote them as being "extremely rare."

Jinx86

As an eBay seller those are words I try to stay clear of. Closest Ill get to them is stating mintage facts or graded populations.

Nap

The best is when you see someone advertise "unknown medieval/Roman/etc. coin, super rare!!"

SmEagle1795

It's always been like this (not just on eBay) and I hate it. A 1909-S VDB cent "rare"? Sure, relative to some years with billions minted it is technically rare, but not in an absolute sense. A friend has a great saying, "There's nothing as common as a rare coin"

lordmarcovan

<< <i>The best is when you see someone advertise "unknown medieval/Roman/etc. coin, super rare!!" >>



Yeah, I've always loved that. "Here, I have no idea what this is, but it's extremely rare."

Superlatives have certainly gotten out of hand, and "rare" is one of the most abused terms of all.

That being said, I don't know how much it would "kill the hobby". But yes, it does engender a certain amount of skepticism in us all.

nicholasz219

You know Lochness, it makes me crazy too. It has made me crazy since I started getting old enough to smell bulls*** and figure out the garbage that many legitimate dealers include in their ads. I wish I was a pack rat enough to still have some old Coin World advertisements from the late 80's and early 90's while I still cared at all about US coins. Everything was "GEM!" "BU" and the like. I can't speak for dark side stuff as I didn't pay enough attention. It is also similar to the ads you see in the Sunday Parade magazine in your paper, whether it is Franklin Mint, "collector" plates or what not, it is there because people who do not know much and also do not care to know much are happy to buy them for whatever reason. Littleton Coins, stuff on Home Shopping Network, et cetera. The ad I think of right when I read your post was "Three Collector Coins: $19.95!" And it was a circ Buffalo nickel, Indian Head Cent and a slick Barber quarter or dime. And the sad thing is that there are Moms, Grandmas, Uncles who know that someone they love collects and they are like, "Hey! Here is that birthday idea I have been looking for!" I know I have received a few of those types of gifts. I accept appreciatively because I know they mean well and it is crass just to ask for money to make the purchase you would rather make.

Dealers are sellers and a lot of buyers, myself included when I was younger, can or will not spend a lot of time to shop around or research to see if they are getting fleeced or not. So if a dealer has success with labeling stuff as "RARE!" or "SUPER RARE!" "UNKNOWN VARIETY" "TOP GRADE" or whatever superlative works in the given situation, they are going to keep doing it until they get called out or censured by some appropriate body or the market itself. In a sense, I guess I have a bit of sympathy for the average joe who is trying to make a living selling stuff that is pretty common. I am sure there are only so many ways to sell a common circulated Buffalo nickel or yet another 1921 Peace Dollar in MS-61.

We are not the market that these dealers are looking for then or now really. They are looking for people who have more money than time and like the thrill of a purchase victory. I don't think that the hobby will be ruined by people verbally overselling common crap (because people are still buying certified US stuff that I thought would fizzle out eventually...20 years later), but gouging the public does pose the risk of turning a potential market of potential new serious collectors against the hobby entirely.

As it is, I just kind of see through that stuff and just mostly look at the picture and see if the picture matches the written description and ignore the sales garbage. Sticking to the same sellers for the most part helps.

asheland

Those words are constantly being misused!

YQQ

As long as there are no rules or regulations, all this hype will continue.
the old saying: "buy the coin, Not the description or packaging"
Ebay would be wise to change their rules about payment of return shipments, images posted of items descriptions, i.e. the superlatives mentioned.
until something like this happens, nothing will change.

STLNATS

<< <i>It's always been like this (not just on eBay) >>


+1.

Wow, lots of emotion/anger evidenced here but as SmEagle1795 indicated, it's ALWAYS been this way - probably since the first caveman attempted to swap a "leading edge" stone tool with another - and a tactic for a seller to differentiate their product from all of the competitive clutter. Since I collect NBNs, I have spent a lot of time looking thru old newspapers to find info about issuers or their officers. Today's hype has nothing on that employed around the turn of the last century (i.e., 19th to 20th). Frankly, "abuse" is in the eye of the beholder, and a third party or even ebay to act as a "superlative" or word police is both scary and an incredibly bad idea. And at some point one hopes that one learns to just not sweat the small stuff (after all this is supposed to be a hobby, right?), ignore the hype and focus on the coin/note (per YQQ, buy the coin not the holder...nor the hype). Makes the world a lot more pleasant, reduces one's BP and helps one be more objective in their analysis of a coin or whatever.

Oh, and to answer the thread topic, no it's not. Just MHO...

NiceCurrency

everyones business is called first name last name rare coins

that has always amused me

LochNESS

<< <i>... gouging the public does pose the risk of turning a potential market of potential new serious collectors against the hobby entirely. >>

This is basically the point of my OP. How can we expect to attract newcomers to the hobby?

I'm not suggesting any policing or censorship of anything - except by ourselves. Let's sell our coins for what they really are - works of art and historical importance.

When people learn that I collect coins, they want to know how valuable they are, or how rare they are ... or they want me to provide an estimate on the value of their 30-yr-old pocket change, or that gold necklace with the encased double eagle. They rarely ask to see them much less hold them. Let's change that.

There's nothing wrong with starter kits, buffalo nickels and SVDB cents, or state quarters. The problem is the misrepresentation. Soon enough, the buyers will learn their coins AREN'T as valuable or rare as they had hoped, and be turned off to numismatics forever. This effect can even span MULTIPLE GENERATIONS ... "don't go to coin shows you'll just get ripped off" ... "don't visit the coin shop in the mall all that stuff is overpriced junk" ... these are just a couple things I've heard people say to their kids.

laurentyvan

I am nearing my wits' end with eBay to the point where I can't stand browsing listings

Ditto!

DIMEMAN

Just laugh it off...like I do when I see a common Mercury Dime in VF at best listed as rare and high grade.

Stork

<< <i>... "very rare" or "extremely rare" ... >>

nicholasz219

Haha at Stork.

I encounter the same things with folks at work mostly who know I collect. They say, "I have some coins I would like you to look at." I always warm them that for the most part anything that is from the last two hundred years is likely common and probably not worth more than a few dollars at most. You can see that they get deflated which bums me out too. But I also explain that a lot of collecting is still finding the common things over time and on budget is the real challenge. Still it seems that people either have the bug or they don't.

lordmarcovan

@ Stork.

I love the Mandy Patinkin meme. Inigo Montoya in the The Princess Bride is one of my all-time favorite movie characters, and that's a perfect use of that quote.

Must confess that in my young and dumb days, I saw that movie upwards of thirty times and could probably still lip-sync the dialogue even today. Saw the original Highlander movie something like 54 times, I think. Those two were our "cult classics" when I used to hang around with a group of other twentysomethings who had too little to do. One does stupid stuff like that when one is young, right?

(Then again, considering the activities of the young and dumb nowadays, I guess compulsive movie-watching is pretty tame by comparison.)

theboz11

Its called fluffing in the Real Estate world. The only way to know is look at it in person, and be knowledgeable about your proposed purchase area. Nothing forcing anyone to buy someone else's idea of a rare item. Rare to me is measured in years between availability. I got a closet full that no one wants!! Anyone want some Rare Avon bottles and Bennie babies.

STLNATS

<< <i>Just laugh it off...like I do when I see a common Mercury Dime in VF at best listed as rare and high grade. >>



+1

Like the dime focus btw, little gems.

LochNESS

<< <i>Its called fluffing in the Real Estate world. ... >>

So, I looked at some commercial real estate very recently. Ended up making an offer on a great office suite and it looks like they've accepted the terms. Just waiting for the papers to sign. But the first place I looked ...

The guy advertised 300 square feet. The room was maybe 150 at best, probably closer to 100. I asked him, "so where is the rest?" to which he diverted his eyes and shrugged, "Well, I don't know the exact measurements..." Then he showed me another space that was supposed to be 500 sq.ft. and was maybe 250. So the end result, is the prices he's charging for lease are about three times per sq.ft. what he advertised because the actual footage is so much less.

This is the kind of behavior I'm talking about. Not fluffing necessarily, but more like intentionally misleading with the hopes of swindling. There's a difference right?

harasha

There's a difference right?

Fraud vs. Constructive Fraud. Still fraud.

ormandh

I think that if you are a seasoned collector, you tend not let it bother you. As a true collector, one learns to not pay attention to the fluff and focus on the important aspects of the auction, or the true rarities. If you do not know what the rarities are then, yes, it can be bothersome. As for what someone else will buy as a rarity, it should not matter to you as long as you are not the one doing so.

zompels

Unfortunately the only solution to this thing is numismatic experience and knowledge.
Remember when I start as a newbie how many hot buys I thought I've done but I search and find them all common.
After 2-3 disappointments I realize that the error was me and should read and search before buying a coin.
All those feedbacks to eBay to the seller Lochness mentioned I believe that becoming from roockies.....as we all where.