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Should pedigreed coins from famous collections carry more "weight"?

BigD5BigD5 Posts: 3,433 ✭
in PCGS Set Registry Forum
I'm not into this Registry stuff, but this one bounced around a bit. Should an Eliasberg coin carry a few "extra" points, or extra "weight", for example. What are the Registry board thoughts on this? image
BigD5
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    Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,274 ✭✭✭
    No, just because you pay a premium for a coin, because it has a pedigree, doesn't make it a better coin.
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
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    khaysekhayse Posts: 1,336 ✭
    Definitely not. Who's going to go through each pedigree and
    decide what weight to add? What if I don't place any importance
    on the pedigree?

    Then we introduce the slippery slope of giving individual coins
    different weights based on (more) subjective factors. Adding weights
    based on toning is just a step away.

    No, I don't think so.

    -KHayse
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    andy007andy007 Posts: 475 ✭
    nope
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    izzy452izzy452 Posts: 929 ✭
    I totally agree with you guys. A coin is graded on its merits not on who's name is on it. By the way how much does PCGS charge to put a name on the holder ? The Izzy Collection ? hmmmm LOLimage


    Walt
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    CocoinutCocoinut Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Definitely not. I have a few with pedigrees, but I didn't pay extra for them, and can't see that they're any better or worse than others of the same type and grade. I have to wonder, though: if the graders at any grading service know that they've received coins from a major collection (it could be obvious if certain rarities show up), are they more likely to be a bit "liberal" when grading them?

    Jim
    Countdown to completion of my Mercury Set: 2 coins. My growing Lincoln Set: Finally completed!
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    LincolnCentManLincolnCentMan Posts: 5,347 ✭✭✭✭
    I dont think it should. The goal is the best set of coins, just because you have an Elisburg MS67 doesn't mean it's a better coin than a non-pedigreed MS68.

    David
    Lincolncentman Toned Lincolns
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    DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No, No, No, a thousand times NO!!!!!!!!!!!
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    merz2merz2 Posts: 2,474 ✭
    BigD
    I say no!!! The pedigree shouldn't effect the weight,IMHO.
    Don
    Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
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    FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Only "The Four K's Merc Set" Dimes should carry more Weight for thier Pedigree.
      The Other Pedigreed Sets No Way !! Who are these People anyway, Eliasberg, Bass, Miller, Dominick, Joshua, Green, Kritzman, Bassano ?? image
        Ken
      1. Options
        braddickbraddick Posts: 23,136 ✭✭✭✭✭
        Interesting question. Let me throw a monkey wrench into the works: We pay a premium for a top pedigreed coin. We pay a premium for the "PCGS" 'pedigree'. Maybe an Eliasberg coin should carry a bit of extra weight- kind of like what NGC does with their star coins. Should we agree then? Say 25% increase, but the pedigree MUST be from a famous former Collector. Those in favor?

        peacockcoins

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        FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
        Nope !!
          Extra Weight Only for Non-Famous Current Collectors.image
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          dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,719 ✭✭✭✭✭
          I have an Eliasberg Liberty Nickel. I wanted one for my collection. When I got it, the dealer who got it for me said simply "Don't break that one out and send it back in, as it may not come back the same grade" It was generous grading already. I paid a small premium, but I was buying the name on the holder, not the coin in this case.

          For this coin, PCGS has already given a bonus for the pedigree.
          Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
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          windycitytriowindycitytrio Posts: 63
          A coin is a coin is a coin. Just because at some time in history it was owned by a famous collector means nothing. If the coin is so great, why did the collector sell it? Surely they dont need the money!image
          It is possible for people to ask questions for no other reason than to educate themselves. The only stupid questions are those that are never asked.

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          manscomansco Posts: 229 ✭
          Braddick,

          Who determines who the famous collectors are deserving additional pedigree points?

          I'm not sure there is agreement on the PCGS weights, let's throw another monkey wrench into the system.

          Only coins with my pedigree deserve any premium points..........maybe not.
        4. Options
          BearBear Posts: 18,954 ✭✭
          Many years ago I bought a number of Morgan Dollars at auction from a renouned collector and dealer. Every expert also graded the coins in lofty numbers. The only problem was ,when I went to sell my pedagreed coins some years later it was at a significant loss to compensate for inflated grading. So much for expert opinions. I should have listened to that small voice in my head that kept saying "with all those small marks ,how could it be such a high grade". Bear
          There once was a place called
          Camelotimage
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          dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,719 ✭✭✭✭✭


          << <i>A coin is a coin is a coin. Just because at some time in history it was owned by a famous collector means nothing. If the coin is so great, why did the collector sell it? Surely they dont need the money!image >>



          Eliasberg didn't sell his, he died! So did most of the owners of other famous pedigree coins.
          Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
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          quattrocoinsquattrocoins Posts: 1,881
          A BIG fat NO!!! (unless, of course, QuattroCoins is on the holder!) image

          Regards,

          Don
          FULL Heads RULE!
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          windycitytriowindycitytrio Posts: 63
          dbldie55...the sets can still stay in the family even after one's death image.
          It is possible for people to ask questions for no other reason than to educate themselves. The only stupid questions are those that are never asked.

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          dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,719 ✭✭✭✭✭
          Yes, that's true. But in the Eliasberg case, you are buying it because Lois Sr. owned it, not because his kids decided to sell it 20 years later (that just allowed you to do it).
          Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
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          littlewicherlittlewicher Posts: 1,822 ✭✭
          Nope, no way. The pedigreed coins would make for an unfair registry set race. If there's only one coin of each date, only one set can have the coin.


          For some life lasts a short while, but the memories it holds last forever.
          -Laura Swenson

          In memory of BL, SM, and KG. 16 and forever young, rest in peace.
        10. Options
          BearBear Posts: 18,954 ✭✭
          Listen, I am having large pockets sewn into my vest. When I go I am taking my collection with me. Maybe the big collector in the sky and I will be able to do some serious trading. Bear
          There once was a place called
          Camelotimage
        11. Options
          BigD5BigD5 Posts: 3,433 ✭
          I was thinking more along the lines of Braddick's thoughts. Most times, you will pay a slight premium for a Pedigreed coin, although it would have to be an important Pedigree. Regardless of the few collectors lack of appreciation for any historical aspects of the Eliasberg, or Bass collection coins, most collectors raise a brow if a coin is notated as being from a famous collection like those. These coins seem to be a bit more special, not in a grading sense, but a historical one. I could rationalize a little "bump" in someones registry for the inclusion of these coins in their set. Sometimes the hunt for the "number" clouds the journey.
          BigD5
          LSCC#1864

          Ebay Stuff
        12. Options
          braddickbraddick Posts: 23,136 ✭✭✭✭✭
          BigD5- Right. Just a little bump. Now, come on guys! The Registry is fun! Wouldn't this add an element and twist of excitment? I think so.

          peacockcoins

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          FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
          Nope !!!
            A PO-1 is Always a PO-1 even if Braddick is On It.
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            TAP444TAP444 Posts: 824
            NO WAY NO HOW NOWHY
            CLEAR ENOUGH
            LOOKING FOR 1931-s merc that is nice for the grade and fb
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            DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
            If you want to buy a pedigreed coin for personal reasons, fine.

            BUT THEY HAVE NO PLACE IN THE REGISTRY POINT SYSTEM. NO A THOUSAND TIMES NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
          3. Options
            DRGDRG Posts: 818
            Thank God there are no pedigreed SBA$. Are there?image Anyhow, my vote is NO WAY. It may make a coin more interesting but it does not make it a higher grade. If this was done it would penalize new collectors who may actually put together even better sets then those famous collectors of the past unless the new collector included the pedigreed coins in his own collection.
            (PAST) OWNER #1 SBA$ REGISTRY COLLECTOIN
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            python1python1 Posts: 789
            NO
            Dennis

            My Dimes

            << If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right the first time! >>
          5. Options
            BigD5BigD5 Posts: 3,433 ✭
            Always by the number everyone, heh? This is why I could NEVER do a registry set. Missing out on WAY too many interesting and attractive coins. image
            BigD5
            LSCC#1864

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          6. Options
            cladkingcladking Posts: 28,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
            No, not the number- - the coin.
            No, not the previous owner- - the coin!
            Tempus fugit.
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            STOCKFORDSTOCKFORD Posts: 1,328 ✭✭
            I SAY THAT THE COIN SHOULD BE WEIGHTED ON ITS ON MERIT AND NOT THE PERSON WHO OWNS THE COIN!!
            LOOKING FOR FULL STEP JEFFERSON NICKELS PCGS OR NGC
          8. Options
            rkfishrkfish Posts: 2,617 ✭✭✭
            No way!
            Steve

            Check out my PQ selection of Morgan & Peace Dollars, and more at:
            WWW.PQDOLLARS.COM or WWW.GILBERTCOINS.COM
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            michaelmichael Posts: 9,524 ✭✭
            yes all pedigreed coins should get at least one point more in the registry sets

            sincerely michael
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            BruddBrudd Posts: 33
            Let me think,- - - - - - what's the word- - - - - - NO!
            Yeah that's it.
            SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIUM ERUDITIONIS HABES

            Looking for Low Grade PCGS Half Dimes.
          11. Options
            madmikemadmike Posts: 66


            << <i>Listen, I am having large pockets sewn into my vest. When I go I am taking my collection with me. Maybe the big collector in the sky and I will be able to do some serious trading. Bear >>



            Maybe Bear is on to something here....

            Maybe we'll someday be able to buy a pedigreed coin with a sample of the famous dead collectors ashes slabbed along with it! image

            Instead of taking your coins with you, your coins could take you with them!

            (Before anyone flames me, I'm just being silly)

            And PCGS... don't even think about stealing my idea! image

            madmike
            http://www.madmike.com
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            KeyrockKeyrock Posts: 961 ✭
            No, a coin should be weighted on it's own merits, not by who owned it.

            Rich
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            RonyahskiRonyahski Posts: 3,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
            NO. Bad example using Eliasberg coins. How many of them have you seen? Many of them are... well... the toning is kind of... well, they were treated a while ago... the eye appeal is kind of...well, uhh... OK, I can't think of any other way to say it...they are UGLY!
            Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
          14. Options
            BearBear Posts: 18,954 ✭✭
            Ron - They may be ugly ,but in a rather grand and historic way since they have a pedigree or was that a pedicure, I get confused so easily nowadays
            There once was a place called
            Camelotimage
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            BigD5BigD5 Posts: 3,433 ✭
            So, let's pick the Bass pedigree. What do you think Ronayaski? I've seen quite a few Eliasberg coins, and won't disagree with you on the appearance of some of the coins. Would a famous pedigree add some weight to one set over another? Not much, maybe a little, tiny bit? image
            BigD5
            LSCC#1864

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          16. Options
            RonyahskiRonyahski Posts: 3,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
            BigD5 - Nope, not even a tiny bit. From what I've seen, pedigree coins tend to get the benefit of the doubt with the grading services as it is. That should be enough. What about current Registry sets that are now being pedigreed, should they get extra weight because they were already in a top set and found their way into another? Don't think so. And just because Mr. Eliasberg, Bass, Childs, etc. collected years ago, neither should they.

            Now that I think about it though, pedigrees don't always get the benefit of the doubt. I bought alot of Benson coins, and as discussed in this forum, they were generally undergraded (but that's another topic).

            Regards,
            Daryl
            Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
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            orevilleoreville Posts: 11,793 ✭✭✭✭✭
            BIGD5: NO EXTRA POINTS FOR PEDIGREED COINS.

            Let me very clear about this. I happen to be a big fan of pedgireed coins. It is wonderful to own coins that were once owned by great collectors of yesteryear. especially if that previous owner was famous or well known as a collector or was a big mentor to you, etc. There is a sense of added history or a story to attached to the coin for the new owner to enjoy whether he chooses to preserve such history or not.

            However, attempting to quantify the number of points to add whether it is 1 or 2 or even more is demeaning to the history attached to the coin as well as to the delicate art of grading that we attempt to make more scientific and finally enough to make any purveyor of scorekeeping of registry sets bonkers in just trying to figure all this out.

            Leave well enough alone.

            Incidentally isn't that what that extra column is for??????? Isn't that enough for the current owner to add an extra comment about the coin whether it be a pedigreed coin or the first coin that his granfather owned when he first came to America, etc?

            Just leave well enough alone.
            A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
          18. Options
            Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,274 ✭✭✭
            Sadly, it occurs to me that there is already a requirement for a pedigreed coin in at least one registry set, the "Goodacre" Sacagawea.
            "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
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