1989 Pro Set vs. 1989 Score

rcmb3220

Besides pure demand, can someone explain why there's such a huge price differential between these two in terms of PSA 10 and unopened? The population of PSA 10s for Barry Sanders is 1196 for Pro Set and 1084 for Score. Aikman's score card actually holds a 798 to 449 lead in the pop report on PSA 10s.

The availability of unopened doesn't seem to be a problem for either of these although that's probably misleading since it's not really worth it to sell the pro set boxes.

I know that scarcity alone does not determine prices, I just don't see enough to justify a 10X premium on unopened and a 7-8X premium on PSA 10s.

RookieWax

Great point...and one I have mentioned before on this board. Both have condition-sensitive colored borders. And I actually think centering is a bit more of an issue with Pro Set than it is with Score. Additionally, looking at the % graded in a PSA 10 is misleading. Because a PSA 9 Barry Sanders or Aikman will still sell for $30 to $40, people are more likely to send in a Score card that is not perfect. With their Pro Set cards in a PSA 9 not even selling for the grading fee, nobody is going to submit a card unless it is dead-centered and flawless.

ndleo

If you collected in 1989 the Pro Set product was everywhere and in volume. The Score boxes were more limited in distribution. I think Pro Set had several printings of each series, I remember that it seemed like Pro Set boxes just kept coming throughout the season.

I only saw one or two boxes of Score at a few drugs stores in the Detroit area. I don't think Score is rare in an absolute sense, but 1989 Pro Set is the 1987 Topps Baseball of football cards.

Fabfrank

I bought tons of 89 product back in the day. Bottom line, 89 Score was printed in 1 run and limited. 89 Pro set was printed in several runs and all season long. Which is also why you have so many errors and corrections in 89 Pro Set. Pro Set was readily available through many outlets (Target, Walmart, Costco, Walgreens, etc). Score was extremely limited and sold out quickly.

1all

<< <i>If you collected in 1989 the Pro Set product was everywhere and in volume. The Score boxes were more limited in distribution. I think Pro Set had several printings of each series, I remember that it seemed like Pro Set boxes just kept coming throughout the season.

I only saw one or two boxes of Score at a few drugs stores in the Detroit area. I don't think Score is rare in an absolute sense, but 1989 Pro Set is the 1987 Topps Baseball of football cards. >>


You would think that if 1989 Pro Set were the 87 Topps of football cards then Steve would have cases of product in inventory. He hasn't had even a box for sale in a while. I'm not saying that boxes are hard to come by from other sources but it's not quite 87 Topps Baseball-ish.

RedHeart54

1989 Score sort of took everyone by surprise. We were used to Score baseball being so plentiful that it was probably assumed the football product would be no different. Once the "secret" was out Score went through the roof.

mtcards

Its supply and demand. ProSet printed enough cards to supply the demand of every collector in the world. Score did not.

I actually like the look of Score better, but remember, the biggest price difference is on the unopened Sure there is a 3 to1 or 4 to 1 price differential on the cards themselves, but a 20-1 difference on unopened. COmpare that to the early 80's cards v. box prices and you will see similar results

RookieWax

<< <i>.....89 Score was printed in 1 run and limited. 89 Pro set was printed in several runs and all season long. Which is also why you have so many errors and corrections in 89 Pro Set...... >>



Yes, but most of the more common and less valuable errors/corrections occured in series 1...which was the series that was continually changed and reprinted. The rare and crazy valuable errors from series 2 were actually in the third series printing (Series 2 - Final Update). Those boxes are not readily available.

You also cannot forget that Score produced factory sets and even some vending.

timpatg

<< <i>Its supply and demand. ProSet printed enough cards to supply the demand of every collector in the world. Score did not.
>>



I have a feeling that is more of just an old myth now, similar to 89 UD and 84 Donruss baseball. After 26 years, there still seems to be ample supply of unopened 89 Score football. The main difference between Score and ProSet is quality of the card. Also doesn't help that ProSet has a corny cracker jack looking design.

ndleo

<< <i>

<< <i>If you collected in 1989 the Pro Set product was everywhere and in volume. The Score boxes were more limited in distribution. I think Pro Set had several printings of each series, I remember that it seemed like Pro Set boxes just kept coming throughout the season.

I only saw one or two boxes of Score at a few drugs stores in the Detroit area. I don't think Score is rare in an absolute sense, but 1989 Pro Set is the 1987 Topps Baseball of football cards. >>


You would think that if 1989 Pro Set were the 87 Topps of football cards then Steve would have cases of product in inventory. He hasn't had even a box for sale in a while. I'm not saying that boxes are hard to come by from other sources but it's not quite 87 Topps Baseball-ish. >>



Football print volumes were always less than baseball, especially in 1989 and prior, there are just fewer football collectors than baseball. So you are never going to see the hoards of product like baseball. Relatively speaking, for the football card world, 1989 Pro Set is our 1987 Topps not just in volume but also a strong rookie class.

I remember walking into a Meijers (Michigan's Wal Mart at the time) at the end of the football season and there was literally pallets of boxes on sale for I think $6. Thank God I didn't have any money back then or we would be probably talking about my garage full of 1989 Pro Set boxes.

slum22

I agree that Pro Set is harder to find than expected. I agree with the idea that Score has a smaller print run than Pro Set. I also agree that looking at 10 populations is misleading as part of the reason there are fewer subs is because the risk/reward is not high enough to sub Pro Set cards in most cases. Similar to why you will find lots of "low pop" cards from the junk wax era. The reason the 1988 Topps Don Baylor is a Pop 2 (this pop is made up) is not because of condition sensitivity or true rarity, it's because only 2 or 3 people have submitted the card. That said, for the money I would rather have a case of Pro Set 2 than a single Score wax box. I do think the price differential between the two products is skewed. In fact, if anyone has a Pro Set Series 2 case they want to trade for my BBCE wrapped score box, I would do that right now. Design preference is subjective. Personally I prefer the Pro Set design to the Score design especially for the key RC's. Give me the photo of Barry Sanders high stepping through an overmatched college defense over his Score mug shot all day.

ndleo

<< <i>

<< <i>Its supply and demand. ProSet printed enough cards to supply the demand of every collector in the world. Score did not.
>>



I have a feeling that is more of just an old myth now, similar to 89 UD and 84 Donruss baseball. After 26 years, there still seems to be ample supply of unopened 89 Score football. The main difference between Score and ProSet is quality of the card. Also doesn't help that ProSet has a corny cracker jack looking design. >>



I agree. I don't think 1989 Score is rare by any measure. However compared to Pro Set and even Topps, it is "limited". In fact for that era, it is probably one of the more limited products. It still surprises me that Score didn't crank up the presses for 1989 Football. Especially when you consider how much of the 1990-91 Score Hockey was printed.

I went to shows and guys were trading great vintage cards for a stack of 1990-91 Score French Lindros RC. Oh the humanity! Again thank God I had no money back them and I would be stacking those Lindros cards right next to my 500-ct 1988 Fleer Gregg Jefferies pile (which I do have).

timpatg

<< <i>Relatively speaking, for the football card world, 1989 Pro Set is our 1987 Topps not just in volume but also a strong rookie class. >>



Great comparison and funny in a sad kind of way.

ndleo

I do agree with slum, a sealed 1989 Pro Set FB Series 2 case is probably a better investment than a 1989 Score FB Box. I see that they sell in the $400 range, it wouldn't surprise me to see cases move to $600 in the near future.

The rookie selection is very strong and the set checklist is a comprehensive including coaches.

1all

I do find it interesting that Steve has 57 boxes of '89 Score FB currently in stock but nothing for '89 ProSet II. In the 5 years I've been buying from BBCE I don't remember to many times where he didn't have at least a box of '89 Score for sale. My guess is that more people saved the Score cases as an investment while cases of ProSet may have found their way to a dumpster somewhere.

ndleo

BBCE has 1989 Pro Set boxes on ebay right now. He doesn't put everything on the website.

mtcards

I think Steve puts a lot of his junk wax era boxes on ebay. I suppose on stuff like 88 Donruss he has on his site since it would be a bonus to sell those boxes for anything

Edited to add: I agree on having a case of ProSet2 v a box of score. Score is limited by the people willing to chance it for a gem rookie, whereas in Pro Set you can get multiples of those same rookies. At $10-$15 per pack, I would rather buy the Sanders/ Aikman RC outright

billwaltonsbeard

<< <i>Personally I prefer the Pro Set design to the Score design especially for the key RC's. Give me the photo of Barry Sanders high stepping through an overmatched college defense over his Score mug shot all day. >>



No doubt about it. I always loved the Pro Set collegiate action shots in that set.

I've always thought the price of 89 Score boxes was WAY off. It's really not too hard to find cheap mint (even GEM mint) singles out there.

VintagemanEd

You all convinced me.... I just put a crazy
High bid on the pro set boxes Steve has up

timpatg

There are 2 cases on eBay of series 2. One has been opened and based on the condition of some of the boxes, this was not a sealed case. The other is a seller I would never buy from.

ndleo

<< <i>You all convinced me.... I just put a crazy
High bid on the pro set boxes Steve has up >>



Ha! You're lucky that the National is a few weeks away and I'm saving my bankroll

JoeBanzai

<< <i>Besides pure demand, can someone explain why there's such a huge price differential between these two in terms of PSA 10 and unopened? The population of PSA 10s for Barry Sanders is 1196 for Pro Set and 1084 for Score. Aikman's score card actually holds a 798 to 449 lead in the pop report on PSA 10s.

The availability of unopened doesn't seem to be a problem for either of these although that's probably misleading since it's not really worth it to sell the pro set boxes.

I know that scarcity alone does not determine prices, I just don't see enough to justify a 10X premium on unopened and a 7-8X premium on PSA 10s. >>



I have been saying for quite a while that demand drives prices not supply. A perfect example is OPC baseball, it's said that production is 5%(?) of Topps, yet this doesn't show up in what people are willing to pay.

The PERCEPTION was/is that Score was super scarce and Pro Set was mass produced. I don't know if there is any truth to this, but considering your PSA 10 numbers, it doesn't look like there should be that much of a difference.

junkwaxgems

<< <i>

<< <i>.....89 Score was printed in 1 run and limited. 89 Pro set was printed in several runs and all season long. Which is also why you have so many errors and corrections in 89 Pro Set...... >>


The rare and crazy valuable errors from series 2 were actually in the third series printing (Series 2 - Final Update). Those boxes are not readily available.
>>



Do you have any solid info to support this? I have opened cases from each "series" and hundreds of series 2 boxes with and without final update cards within and to do date, the only confirmed source of the rarer series 2 variations is the executive/leather e&v binder. This is of to say that they didn't make it into packs but I'd appreciate any info if you have it to share.

And for the record, design wise, I've always been a fan of 1989 Pro Set over 1989 Score. The scouting photo rc's look great, especially the scrub players.

RookieWax

I have opened dozens of boxes of series 2 and the only cards that had the "Traded" stripe came from a case marked "Final Update" -so the traded concept was clearly part of that "series 3" printing. Whether the errors/variations made it into packs I can't say for sure. The leather binder, from what I understand, was created to include all of the errors/variations that occurred throughout all printings. It doesn't make sense that Pro Set would create special errors just so they could include them in those error binders....especially given the fact that there are 3 variations of those "Traded" cards.

eagles33

the baby blue border series 3 cards are some of my favorite cards from 1989. I like that Sharpe rookie of the the score supp.

junkwaxgems

<< <i>I have opened dozens of boxes of series 2 and the only cards that had the "Traded" stripe came from a case marked "Final Update" -so the traded concept was clearly part of that "series 3" printing. Whether the errors/variations made it into packs I can't say for sure. The leather binder, from what I understand, was created to include all of the errors/variations that occurred throughout all printings. It doesn't make sense that Pro Set would create special errors just so they could include them in those error binders....especially given the fact that there are 3 variations of those "Traded" cards. >>



There are actually 4 variations of the Byner, Riggs and McMahon series 2 cards:

NoTr/see also
NoTr/no see also
TR/see also
TR/no see also

And while the traded cards were issued in series 2 and final update series 2 boxes, there haven't been any recent confirmed pulls of either the NoTr/see also (extremely rare) or the Tr/No see also (rare, in leather binders) and none of the pro set master collectors that I work with have any info on their source. Even the old hobby mags ca. 1990 mention them as having "been found" or "showing up" but never a specified packaging source. Next to 1990 Pro Set, I've opened more of this product than any other in any sport. I can say that there are some weird happenings with the final update run such as glossy/non-glossy variations and odd print issues on Herschel Walker's card.

The 1991 Pro Set Book shows every card they made from 1989-1991, front and back, and it depicts James Jefferson's card as having a scouting photo line at bottom left. Many master set collectors thought this would appear in those late final boxes but do date, a copy has never shown up for sale and may not exist beyond their archives (wherever they are today). The same card has another mysterious variation where it has the small Dolphins helmet logo in upper left instead of the AFC logo but aside from collectors swearing up and down they recal seeing it (myself included), none have appeared for sale since I started hunting in 2000. Pro Set HAS in fact, produced variations that circulated within the company and among execs only, such as the 1990 Steve Young #666 card.

gregmo32

It is missing the point to say that Score boxes are not ” rare.”
I went to a three day show this weekend, and at the end of it, the same two unopened boxes of 1989 Pro Set were sitting on a table, marked at $5.

Submitting a Pro Set HOF RC to PSA will lose you money in every case, except for PSA 10 examples of two players.
That is why the population figures are not more skewed.

There may be money to be made buying unopened 1989 Pro Set at the right price, but to compare it to
1989 Score overstates that point to a massive degree.

RookieWax

<< <i>...and odd print issues on Herschel Walker's card.... >>



Any idea what sort of issues with this card?

junkwaxgems

<< <i>

<< <i>...and odd print issues on Herschel Walker's card.... >>



Any idea what sort of issues with this card? >>



I've seen two copies with a discolored triangle shape opposite of the traded triangle banner. Same exact size as if it were repositioned from having been placed at left originally.

Also, several copies where it appear that either the yellow ran out over the right side of the card (in banner area) or in some cases, as if excess yellow covers the banner area.

There are also two distinct versions of each blue bordered (and art shell) final update card: regular gloss and extra glossy.

The old magazines used to report a correction for Tyrone Braxton's card showing his corrected photo (not Ken Bell) but I have never seen a copy.

In final update boxes, Thomas Sanders' card has a deep red coloring to the stadium background. Normally it's a range of blue/red tones but ink dispersion seemed to have changed for that run.

junkwaxgems

1989 Pro Set 2 Grocery Display Case

Not mine but very interesting. I had never seen one of these before now.

Frozencaribou

It's amazing what nostalgia and disposable income can do when paired together. The rookies in Pro Set series two were so cool in comparison to score rookies. Head shots of football players vs. in action shots from all sorts of random colleges wasn't even a contest. Take the Tony Mandarich score rookie. Looks like he just stepped into the sun from being in a dark room all day. The Pro Set card looks like he is going to lift his opponent up by his throat with one hand. No wonder collectors would rather the pro set cards be more desirable.

PMKAY

Back in 1989 I remember having a tough time deciding which to buy, Pro Set or Score. I liked the Pro Set pictures better so decided to go all in on Pro Set. Going all in back then mean buying three boxes. But not all at once, it took time to put together that type of money. Once I did though I started saving up to buy a box of score. I don't remember what the cost of either product was but by the time I had enough to buy a box of Score, I could not find any anywhere.

I bought five boxes of Pro Set series 2 a few years ago. Finally got around to subbing some of the key rookies last month.

Stingray

<< <i>1989 Score sort of took everyone by surprise. We were used to Score baseball being so plentiful that it was probably assumed the football product would be no different. Once the "secret" was out Score went through the roof. >>



And then they went back to their old ways in 1990!!