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ASE Roll question/comment

AcesCrackedAcesCracked Posts: 189 ✭✭
in Buy, Sell, & Trade - U.S. Coins
I think I already know the answer to this question but here goes....
Do any of the major bullion dealers list in the description of a silver eagle roll if they are unsearched????? I have opened several dozens of rolls out of several monster boxes and never had a coin roll not have all heads up or tails up( all twenty coins) in any roll that I opened. With the silver drop I have been buying several from DBS and APMEX and there are always two or three each roll "out of place". When I sell a roll I only open it to put in a packing peanut then tape it back so it does not open in shipping.
Should the big guys state if the roll was searched at all?????? To me it is not ethical to send all rolls to PCGS and then special sale the rolls to folks.......

Comments.

Tom

Comments

  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I understand your concern, but I'm sure
    many dealers as well as individuals do
    that !!! :-(
    Timbuk3
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Unless they are in a monster box with the straps still intact you can assume that they may have been searched.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,138 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's been discussed before on the PM forum and the conclusion is that they don't search those rolls. Most of those places do their large submissions early in the year, so most of the stuff now was probably never submitted. Do the coins in those rolls look like 68s or lower? Would be interesting to hear what those places say.

    Pinehurst Coin Exchange offers random year ASEs at $1.18 less per coin than for new 2015 coins.

    THIS LISTING IS FOR A RANDOM DATE, “SCRUFFY” COIN *

    The date or years of the coin(s) that you will receive may vary. This will be determined at the discretion of PCE, Inc. based on our current inventory.

    We classify a coin as, “Scruffy” when there are clear surface abrasions that will not allow the coin to be listed in its standard category.

    I've purchased any number of special sale rolls that had really nice coins in them.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I think I already know the answer to this question but here goes....
    Do any of the major bullion dealers list in the description of a silver eagle roll if they are unsearched????? I have opened several dozens of rolls out of several monster boxes and never had a coin roll not have all heads up or tails up( all twenty coins) in any roll that I opened. With the silver drop I have been buying several from DBS and APMEX and there are always two or three each roll "out of place". When I sell a roll I only open it to put in a packing peanut then tape it back so it does not open in shipping.
    Should the big guys state if the roll was searched at all?????? To me it is not ethical to send all rolls to PCGS and then special sale the rolls to folks.......

    Comments.

    Tom >>


    Y not? It's all bullion, what may be pulled is marketed and sold for the circus...
    keceph `anah
  • JohnT58JohnT58 Posts: 61 ✭✭
    APMEX has their Mintdirect program that guarantees the coins have not been checked. If you get a regular roll, I would say that all bets are off.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>APMEX has their Mintdirect program that guarantees the coins have not been checked. If you get a regular roll, I would say that all bets are off. >>



    Agree with this. When the 5 oz ATB silver pucks first came out, didn't APMEX pull out the high grade coins to submit for slabbing and then sold the rest without mentioning that they had already been cherry picked?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • nibannynibanny Posts: 2,761 ✭
    I don't think they search all the rolls, they just submit a bunch of them as a bulk (someone may remember a picture posted and removed a while back). Thr 68 and lower (if any) get sold either as singles or put back in tubes. I don't check my ASEs, they could easily be all 68's! imageimage
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,138 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Doesn't necessarily mean searched. Could be blended where someone put a few scrapers in with new coins. Also APMEX and other bullion dealers buy from the public so unless they buy a sealed MB, there is always a risk that the coins won't all be 100% new. They probably look just to make sure that the coins in a purchased roll are all from the same year. Then again if I was verifying all dates in a roll, I'd retube them all heads or all tails since you could only tell the date by looking at the heads side.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • AcesCrackedAcesCracked Posts: 189 ✭✭
  • AcesCrackedAcesCracked Posts: 189 ✭✭
    I just would think the item description should explain what you are getting. The least they could do is ensure that the replacements that they put in to complete the tube would at least be in the correct obverse or reverse...... When I sell rolls I guarantee your the first that looked at the coins because I cut the strap.
    Thanks for all the replies.

    Tom
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,460 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Unless they are in a monster box with the straps still intact you can assume that they may have been searched. >>





    So, you didn't believe John when he said, on this forum a few months ago, that MCM doesn't bother going through all their rolls? That they sell plenty of them unsearched?
    I forget his exact words but it was to the effect that it isn't worth searching them all as the value just isn't there....they send in their rolls early and they get them graded....the rolls they sell, they just sell as it doesn't matter to them.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,444 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I seldom look at rolls of eagles. They come in new they go out new. I don't move tons, but I move plenty enough to know I don't spend time looking at them. I doubt very much the "BIG BOYS" waste their time. Bulk dealers (submitters to NGC or PCGS ) get their wares to market faster than we can post here about them, in fact. My personal view of your concerns are that the big boys should not say "unsearched". If people are actually searching ROLLS for MS 69 and MS 70 specimens of silver bullion coins, I give them a "high five".

    Time is more precious than that metal.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't think they search all the rolls, they just submit a bunch of them as a bulk (someone may remember a picture posted and removed a while back). Thr 68 and lower (if any) get sold either as singles or put back in tubes. I don't check my ASEs, they could easily be all 68's! imageimage >>



    The grading services return the rejects to the major bullion dealers who then have a special sale---"only $2.49 over spot!".image
    This is not a big deal if all you are interested in is buying some expensive bullion in the form of picked over ASE's.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Unless they are in a monster box with the straps still intact you can assume that they may have been searched. >>





    So, you didn't believe John when he said, on this forum a few months ago, that MCM doesn't bother going through all their rolls? That they sell plenty of them unsearched?
    I forget his exact words but it was to the effect that it isn't worth searching them all as the value just isn't there....they send in their rolls early and they get them graded....the rolls they sell, they just sell as it doesn't matter to them. >>



    Obviously not every roll has been search which is why I said "may" which means the possibility exists that it may have been searched. When dealers send monster boxes of ASE's to the major grading services with instructions to only slab the 69's and the 70's, what do you think happens to all the ASE's that aren't slabbed?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is an interesting thread but it's in the wrong forum. It should be moved to the Precious Metals Forum.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,138 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Unless they are in a monster box with the straps still intact you can assume that they may have been searched. >>





    So, you didn't believe John when he said, on this forum a few months ago, that MCM doesn't bother going through all their rolls? That they sell plenty of them unsearched?
    I forget his exact words but it was to the effect that it isn't worth searching them all as the value just isn't there....they send in their rolls early and they get them graded....the rolls they sell, they just sell as it doesn't matter to them. >>



    Obviously not every roll has been search which is why I said "may" which means the possibility exists that it may have been searched. When dealers send monster boxes of ASE's to the major grading services with instructions to only slab the 69's and the 70's, what do you think happens to all the ASE's that aren't slabbed? >>



    The ones that aren't slabbed would still be in new mint rolls even in new unopened monster boxes, no? That picture you referred to earlier was probably a submission by someone like APMEX where the coins were drop shipped from the mint. I bet they weren't even all graded. The submitter probably wanted x number of 69s in rolls and singles and y number of 70s. Once the goal was met, they stopped grading. There really is no incentive for a big dealer to search rolls, unless you go back to earlier years where there were few if any 70s given.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • mariner67mariner67 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>APMEX has their Mintdirect program that guarantees the coins have not been checked. If you get a regular roll, I would say that all bets are off. >>



    Agree with this. When the 5 oz ATB silver pucks first came out, didn't APMEX pull out the high grade coins to submit for slabbing and then sold the rest without mentioning that they had already been cherry picked? >>



    APMEX did exactly that.....cherrypicked and sold the lower grade rejects.
    They also seperated first year sets of the ATBs that they secretly sold the better rejec sets to well established repeat customers and the lower quality worse sets to new customers.
    It was a really sneezy scene....busted by soneone on these forums.
    Successful trades/buys/sells with gdavis70, adriana, wondercoin, Weiss, nibanny, IrishMike, commoncents05, pf70collector, kyleknap, barefootjuan, coindeuce, WhiteTornado, Nefprollc, ajw, JamesM, PCcoins, slinc, coindudeonebay,beernuts, and many more
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