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For all you who think there's a "real" marketplace in the U.S.

piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
there's more trouble in paradise.
If you buy from the big houses, you're taking just as much of a chance buying on the BST. I don't know what some of you don't get on this subject.
There IS manipulation everywhere in the U.S. based "houses", and the new China market is going to shake things up bigtime imo.
The new China market would not allow this to happen based on what has been said about it because you have to have what you're selling before you can offer to sell it.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.

Comments

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,779 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It was nice of them to halt sales rather than continue to sell product they don't have. Likely an indicator of a shortage of finished physical product. I see it as a good thang. Just got a refund on a $50 gold eagle that my favorite ebay seller says he is unable to deliver.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭
    I would argue it has nothing to do with demand, but unfortunately the reason as you say many are leary of the bst, customer non delivery...

    Bd is not a normal bullion dealer as they deal( gamble) also in a nucleo exchange and I'm sure that's where they will find their unique derivative problem originated...

    Much like a small casino goin belly up, I believe only when some major leaguers go under, if ever, then maybe there would be a legitimate shortage, that's maybe...

    The news can make it seem shortage related on a big scale but is it nowhere near it...
    keceph `anah
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,283 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sold out all bullion in the shop this past 2 weeks. There's a run on the ____. No doubt. Waiting on more sellers to "give it up". The check's cleared, the stuff is sold, and yet … it doesn't look as good on paper as it does in hand, and it's "in the cloud". The sign of heavy metal. Where's MCM ? Last month (according to Coin World) there was a huge market for silver.

    The price is going up. I know. I just sold the monster box I bought and need another…. and have to replace at a higher cost, even though the prices are leveled out, or clearly lower (current spot price). image

    Picked up the pace (as the market is concerned) , and if the price drops further, even as prices go up for delivery…, well and good. Whatever happens, there is a real marketplace in the U.S.

    Got silver ? Got gold ? Let's make a deal.
    As of midnight this is the 6th Anniversary date of me being in a brick and mortar. (est. July 4, 2009)
    There'd better be a "real" marketplace in the U.S. or I'm living a nightmare. Or in a fantasy image
  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭
    The China market will be moot on a perceived new world pricing , like an auction house having an auction date or jewelry store, it only pertains to the inventory there on that date(s)...
    every other store in America and the world could care less, they selling their own stuff ...
    keceph `anah
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Man that sucks , I always liked bullion directimage Speaking of nucleo exchange , doesn't provident do something along those lines? What is the Elemental vault that they were pushing a while back?


    Edited to add turns out there is a 12 page thread about this on bullion directs own forum that started in March so regular buyers there knew there was an issue months ago
    image

    bullion direct has had my money for a month
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Paper metals and derivatives are one thing. Physical metal in your own possession is quite another. First Tulving........
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭


    Paper metals and derivatives are one thing. Physical metal in your own possession is quite another. First Tulving........

    This ^
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭
    Lol, to say once again so no one can read, BD biz is not tulvings or normal perceived bullion biz...

    keceph `anah
  • bluelobsterbluelobster Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭
    It sounds similar to Tulving, but from what RH is saying maybe not?

    Even if customers get their cash or PMs finally from BD, you still could have some clawback concern. Hope it works out for those that are out money, doesn't look that good.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>there's more trouble in paradise.
    If you buy from the big houses, you're taking just as much of a chance buying on the BST. I don't know what some of you don't get on this subject.
    There IS manipulation everywhere in the U.S. based "houses", and the new China market is going to shake things up bigtime imo.
    The new China market would not allow this to happen based on what has been said about it because you have to have what you're selling before you can offer to sell it. >>



    I don't know about the business model of this Bullion Direct and Tulving, sounds like it is a "just in time" or even "juuuuust a liiiiitle late" schedule.

    Anyway, GREAT Article OP, actually the comments are even better, especially the ones by "dogismycopilot"

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,202 ✭✭✭✭✭


    I always liked BD but actually when they revamped the site to put nucleo and catalog prices on the same page it had me scratching my head . With the 1% commission on nucleo for both parties it still used to be cheaper than catalog. Lately it seemed that it was cheaper to just buy out of the catalog , it sort of marginalized the nucleo market . I hadn't used nucleo since around 2012 so I don't know when things changed.

    I guess if they undercut the nucleo sellers prices then the buyers dried up for individuals trying to market their own metal.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So did BD commit to buy a bunch of metal from customers/sellers and the customers/sellers aren't delivering what they promised/agreed to deliver?

    Are the APs or other distributors that low on stock or is BD that far behind in paying their bills?
    theknowitalltroll;
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,106 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Even if customers get their cash or PMs finally from BD, you still could have some clawback concern. >>

    How would a clawback work if I bought, let's say, a 100 oz silver bar from them? image

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Even if customers get their cash or PMs finally from BD, you still could have some clawback concern. >>

    How would a clawback work if I bought, let's say, a 100 oz silver bar from them? image >>



    Tell them you sold it to another silver bullion dealer.....or lost it in a boating accident on the Great Lakes.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,202 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Even if customers get their cash or PMs finally from BD, you still could have some clawback concern. >>

    How would a clawback work if I bought, let's say, a 100 oz silver bar from them? image >>



    Tell them you sold it to another silver bullion dealer. >>




    Tulving , and then they can blame A-mark image
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Even if customers get their cash or PMs finally from BD, you still could have some clawback concern. >>

    How would a clawback work if I bought, let's say, a 100 oz silver bar from them? image >>



    Generally IIRC clawback/s would be more of a concern, if they bought from you instead of the other way around. If they owed $$ to a creditor, but bought metal/s from you instead, the creditor could go to court and try to get the $$$ back saying they should have paid their debt instead of buying from you. If they are successful, you may or may not get your metal/s back.

    OTOH, if you bought 60,000 ounces that should have gone to another customer, that other customer may try to go after your metal. I doubt anyone would bother for 100 ounces of silver.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,779 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Currently from the Better Business Bureau:

    "BBB has recently received numerous pending disputes regarding this business. Please review this Business Review for a summary of those disputes. BBB encourages consumers to also reach out to the Texas Attorney General's office and/or their local AG's office regarding any disputes."

    BBB complaints on delivery issues

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,814 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you're doing business with someone and there's even just a hint of something screwy, don't do it. It's not worth it.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Currently from the Better Business Bureau:

    "BBB has recently received numerous pending disputes regarding this business. Please review this Business Review for a summary of those disputes. BBB encourages consumers to also reach out to the Texas Attorney General's office and/or their local AG's office regarding any disputes."

    BBB complaints on delivery issues >>



    Robbing Peter to pay Paul or not paying Paul at all. Seems like a bad decision snowballed out of control. Not unlike a former forum member now deceased.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    If you're doing business with someone and there's even just a hint of something screwy, don't do it. It's not worth it

    I agree, and what gets me is how some blindly follow these bullion houses even when they HAVE had an issue or aware of growing complaints. It amazes me.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If you're doing business with someone and there's even just a hint of something screwy, don't do it. It's not worth it

    I agree, and what gets me is how some blindly follow these bullion houses even when they HAVE had an issue or aware of growing complaints. It amazes me. >>



    They have been touting delays in shipping on their website for months now. I use their site, but only for PM pricing.
    theknowitalltroll;
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