How did NGC grade these coins?

marvinf

Just back from NGC:

Guess the grades of the following coins:

1850 halfcrown OBV:

1850 halfcrown REV:

and:

1848 Pattern Florin ESC 899 OBV:

1848 Pattern Florin ESC 899 REV:

JCMhouston

They are both lovely examples, I'd guess 66 or better from NGC.

Stork

Beautiful coins! I completely suck at grading from pictures, so hard to say about the grades. It does seem like PCGS is a bit looser for the non-US coins, at least on the ones I've seen getting sent for crossing over.

coinkat

Exceptional coins. The 1850 half crown, from the image, looks to be a high quality gem and 66 seems reasonable. The pattern is alittle more of a challenge given the images- still very nice

Zohar

worldcoinguy

I would guess they are both MS-AWESOME. MS-66 for both is my guess.

coffeyce

Beautiful florin I would say 65-66

marvinf

Thank you all for your very accurate assessments of these coins. I had both of them for around 20-25 years before I dared have them graded. I say "dared" since I have been disappointed in the past when I had submitted what I thought were exceptional coins only to have them come back a grade or two lower. Hasn't happened very often, but these two were special and I knew that I would be mightily disappointed if either of them came back "64".

I submitted the 1850 as a proof as I thought I had a "shot" at that. It has a "look" very similar to some of the 1864 proofs that I've seen, so I thought to take a chance. I vacillated about which service to use. PCGS has disappointed me greatly in the world coin grading area whereas NGC has seemed fairer to me based on several submissions to PCGS and NGC.

The 1850 came back as a mint state coin, MS67! It's now the finest graded of a very, very few unc half crowns of this date. Bruce Lorich, from whom I bought it 25 years ago, told me that he thought it was the finest known as he had never seen another even close.

Anyone who is knowledgeable about milled silver probably knows just how hard it is to find nice early Vicky half crowns. The few that are out there are mostly the high mintage dates. The 1850, the last of the higher relief dates is very tough to find in nice condition. If you remember the one 65 in the Goldberg Cheshire collection, it is the closest to mine, but not nearly as nice.

The 1848 Wyon pattern florins are favorites of mine. As most of the British milled silver collectors know, there are three obverses and three reverse types with seven different legends on the reverses. ESC rates them all R2 except for the mules that feature a different reverse on each side.

This florin, ESC899 (pattern Centum) came back as PF65 - an injustice if you ask me. The graders IMO made too much of the couple of tiny lines that are in the frost on the cheek. As we all have seen 65s with many, many more marks, this coin really should be a 66 and I may cross it to PCGS to see what they think. Regardless however, the eye appeal is off the charts, and that should be enough to throw it into the PF66 category.

All in all, however, I was very satisfied with the grading. A 67 early halfcrown is super rare. All one has to do is observe over the years as I have done to see the many drab examples of Vicky halfcrowns that come to auction at Spink or Baldwin to realize just how extraordinary this coin is. Who knows how it managed to avoid the dents and scratches over time. (The Shadow knows!!!)
Thanks again!!

coinkat

67 on the Half Crown looks appropriate and is no surprise. Grading from an image at this level presents concerns.

Both are wonderful- congrats

DIMEMAN

Both are very pretty coins. I would have guessed Gem / Superb Gem.

MacCrimmon

Always loved the pattern cypher on that florin.....


But that half crown?

..... a milled that's HAMMERED, with beyond colourful surfaces. No wonder Bruce could never offer a really top-notch early Victorian half crown; you had it !!!

You spoke of the 1850 from Cheshire ....

<< <i>The 1850, the last of the higher relief dates is very tough to find in nice condition. If you remember the one 65 in the Goldberg Cheshire collection, it is the closest to mine, but not nearly as nice. >>

I agree, it was nice but it had a satin type finish that just didn't "jump". I opted for the 1846 in that sale and yet never found a suitable upgrade in another 5 years. BTW, that 1846 NGC MS66 was cracked out and sent to PCGS and it hit an MS66 on the first go. It was nice but not in the overall league as your 1850 shown here (that to say, I would go for a cross but leave it in that NGC slab. I see no reason PCGS couldn't put that monster in a 67 slab). Again congrats! When sold, if ever, it should easily realize a world record price....EASILY!

marvinf

<< <i>... I would go for a cross but leave it in that NGC slab. I see no reason PCGS couldn't put that monster in a 67 slab). >>



Do you mean that I shouldn't try to cross it? I hadn't thought about crossing it anyways. This coin would sell itself regardless in my opinion. I also don't think that PCGS has the prestige in world coins as it does in US coins. One sees many more NGC coins in world auctions that PCGS. Am I wrong about that? It just seems that way to me after monitoring many world auctions for the past 20 years.

I purchased many top coins from Bruce, but not in the same league of course as some like Doctor Terner. BTW, Bruce has written a book, a crime mystery I believe. He gave me the name of it, but it escapes me at the moment.

Thanks for the interesting comments.

cwt

Both are beautiful coins. I believe that the name of Bruce's book is "Just Above".

7Jaguars

Hi Marvin.
I think these are lovely, preferring the half crown by quite a bit as it is as you've said quite unusual in that state of preservation. Based on the picture alone, it seems to have many of the qualities of a proof, complete with the "aluminum foil" contrast and not unlike the cameo (proof) 1839s I've seen and nicer than most 1853 proofs - which were in fact, along with the special proofs of 1862 and 1864 and the last of the finer style early type half crowns. The 1864 proof in a Spink sale of about 15 years ago was very similar in appearance, and may be the coin you are speaking of.

The florin is lovely, though from the pictures may have some cabinet friction on areas such as the brow, nose, and hair details. I think both coins, judging from pictures were fair overall but still am unsure that the 1850 did not warrant a proof designation and this would likely require an in-hand observation with lens.

Finally, if you look at the lone 1839 currency specimen which is pictured on the PCGS population reports/verification (coin#121002 on the site), it is likely equally lovely for a different type of strike and of course is of supreme rarity. The earlier Cheshire 1850 piece is actually IMO quite nice, but nowhere near as fine as yours.