Are more people putting money in cards as INVESTMENT?

pauldrolkees

Saw an interesting thread on Blowoutcards and thought would be a good thought exercises in here too. do you guys this is what's going on with the crazy jumps in vintage and low pop PSA rookies?



<< <i>I was listening to a podcast "Planet Money" this morning and the analysts are talking about how the interest rate is so low for so long that people are looking at all sorts of avenues to grow their money instead of traditional bank saving accounts, ie, stock prices are trading at historically high PE ratio, housing prices in hot areas are making record jumps quarter after quarter...

Are we seeing wealthy people having more appetite to park their money in highend cards now over traditional bonds, CD, etc? Personally I think I am seeing that effect, the vintage highend market is really insanely hot in my opinion, it's almost as if people just want to get their hands on "something" that are worth something. what do you think?

This was the podcast - Episode 634: Worst Case Scenario : Planet Money : NPR >>

slum22

I certainly think some people could look at cards that way. I am not a coin collector, but wouldn't coins make more sense for this purpose since a gold or silver coin has built in intrinsic value based on the price of the metal?

Grimster

It's a fun hobby. I plan to keep it a hobby. It is fun to think about how much my collection is worth, but I don't treat it as an investment.

The past couple of years has shown that high end graded vintage has provided a fantastic return on the investment. It's all hype though. I mean, has there been any reason for the 52 topps Mantle to have increased like it has?

charrigan

<< <i>I mean, has there been any reason for the 52 topps Mantle to have increased like it has? >>



The top end of the economy has done very well.

Sdub

Yes, there are more investors in the baseball card world than there has ever been. Probably some pumping and dumping going on, schilling, hoarding, cornering, manipulation, reholdering, etc.

I think it's a myth that hobbyists don't care what value their cards are. If that was true, Becketts would of never got off the ground. I love my cards, but I do look for value.

When the ability to short baseball cards comes to fruition, then we've made it to the pros.

mattyc_collection

I wish all cards were worth mere pennies; then I'd be able to get all the ones I want. I would be absolutely OK with their value being a nickel, costing me a nickel, sell it for a nickel or even a penny. They'd still give me the same amount of joy. But with men in their 20s to 70s all collecting now, and some, yes, for sheer flipping, cards are becoming quite expensive.

MrNearMint

I will RARELY buy a card that I don't think about its potential resale value, that's always on my mind when I purchase a card. Part of the enjoyment of this hobby (for me anyway) is the hunt for a nice card at a great price and one I could make money on if I sold it.
I've actually never sold a card but it's A great feeling knowing you bought a card for 200 and could sell it for 500-600.

JoeBanzai

Of course there are many people investing in cards as an investment.

High grade Hall of Famer rookie cards and unopened vintage material look to be safe bets to go up in price.

KendallCat

I actually look at it both ways and my collection reflects that. I have several high end Mantles, Aaron's, Mays, Clemente's that have gone up nicely over the last few years. I also have a ton of cards from when I collected as a kid from 1973-1978 that I enjoy collecting and looking at on a daily basis. While a 1976 Bench in PSA 8 is not going to make me rich it takes me back to when I played my first year of little league and watched the Reds every Saturday on the NBC game of the week at 1:30 right after TWIB. Would give anything to go back to that time in my life, but since I cannot baseball cards can take me there. Pretty much why most people collect them in the first place

totallyradd

I think you have to look at cards as an investment depending on what your going for. You wouldn't throw hundreds or thousands of dollars on a card if you didn't think that somewhere down the line it wouldn't hold it's value. I think a lot of us did that in the late 80's. I'm sure a lot of us wouldn't want that to happen again. That's why I stay away from modern cards. If I spent a lot on cards for a guy like Kris Bryant, and then tears his ACL and never gets back to what he currently is, I dunno if I could get over it.

I do however buy Brewers cards for spare change to get signed. I don't think they hold much value, or will increase in value. But I collect those for the pure excitement of opening stuff in the mail that's not bills.

skrezyna23

As a player collector, I do it for the pure enjoyment of finding all things related to that player. Cards, photos, balls, figures, etc. As much fun as I have with it, the money I spend certainly won't be recouped, but that's not the point, right? Money for enjoyment. This goes much further than a three minute lap dance.

Warriors8

Of course people are putting money into cards as an investment.

begsu1013

investment? sure. cornerstone of my portfolio? no. however, it's a way to enjoy my investment and if they don't happen produce a great roi or even depreciate then i'm more than ok with that. i would rather sink my disposable income into my collection than have some mci worldcom or enron scenario happen. at the end of the day, i'd still have my little cardboard pictures of art vs a worthless stock cert.

of course, i also view the money spent on my collection as entertainment as well. as someone else put it "goes much further than a 3 minute lap dance".

rtimmer

I'm actually putting a lot less of my investment money into cards this year than I have in the past 5. I would say 2009-12 were my peak investment years for cards and now I just fill in holes I want in my collection.

addicted2ebay

It seems like there some cards like the 52 Mantle were there's 3-4 buyers swooping up all the auctions then holding them or listing them for a much higher $.

Warriors8

<< <i>As a player collector, I do it for the pure enjoyment of finding all things related to that player. Cards, photos, balls, figures, etc. As much fun as I have with it, the money I spend certainly won't be recouped, but that's not the point, right? Money for enjoyment. This goes much further than a three minute lap dance. >>


True they go much further than a three minute lap dance.

Dpeck100

I started collecting baseball cards in 1985 like so many other kids at the time. My entire neighborhood was hooked. Your card binder was like your stock portfolio. As each month passed we all couldn't wait to see the new issue of Beckett to see how much our cards had risen. For most trading cards was their first exposure to markets and how economics worked. The entire industry was predicated on speculation for financial gain.

Fast forward thirty years. The same individuals who were in the game at the time are coming back to it and this time they have money not from mowing yards but from real jobs or business's. The same situation is repeating itself.

I got back into cards in 2009 by chance and started collecting a different niche of cards for enjoyment. It quickly morphed into a hobby that I was spending real money on. I needed to be somewhat concerned about how the funds performed for me. I have never seen anything in my life like the card grading game. It is mind boggling to think that you can take a $2 Johnny Moore and turn it into a card that recently sold for over $12,600. This type of value creation potential attracts interest. In early 2010 when I first started getting the SMR I loved looking through the older sets and seeing what appeared to be eye popping values. A 1952 Topps Mantle was $78,000. Today there have been reported sales in the $350,000 range. You only get to that point from new investment dollars.

PaulMaul

<< <i>I started collecting baseball cards in 1985 like so many other kids at the time. My entire neighborhood was hooked. Your card binder was like your stock portfolio. As each month passed we all couldn't wait to see the new issue of Beckett to see how much our cards had risen. For most trading cards was their first exposure to markets and how economics worked. The entire industry was predicated on speculation for financial gain. >>



I'm so glad my introduction to baseball cards was in 1974 and not 1985, and was not colored by all this speculation and greed.

PaulMaul

I can honestly say that the only way the value of cards I'm interested in matters to me is in how it restricts me from obtaining them. I really wouldn't care at all if the value of my cards went down at this point.

begsu1013

<< <i>I'm so glad my introduction to baseball cards was in 1974 and not 1985, and was not colored by all this speculation and greed. >>



i started collecting around 85 as well and quite offended that you see this as speculation and greed...

i, too, pushed lawnmowers, shoveled snow, daily chores for card money. i, too, anxiously awaited the newest edition of beckett to come out and yes i wanted every ken griffey and jerome walton i could get...

and i am proud to say, i bought my cards because of the cards and not for the gum.

PaulMaul

<< <i>

<< <i>I'm so glad my introduction to baseball cards was in 1974 and not 1985, and was not colored by all this speculation and greed. >>



i started collecting around 85 as well and quite offended that you see this as speculation and greed... >>



I'm just reacting to dpeck's quote, not implying anything about individual collectors. The idea of a bunch of kids rushing to get the latest Beckett to see if their cards appreciated turns me off.

begsu1013

different times. i actually used my hard earned money for the cards themselves and not the gum...of course i wanted ken griffey jr, gregg jefferies and ricky jordan to do well but i don't think looking at a beckett to see if their prices went up or down equates to greed and speculation. as i recall, every damn dealer at a show had one and it was the gospel when it came down to buying/trading. so for us kids, it was the equalizer so we couldn't get taken advantage of.

i cant tell you how many packs of topps cards i opened, but probably only chewed 5 pcs of that xylitol waste product that's flavor mighta lasted 10 seconds.

i wanted the cards"."

and on the flip side of your retort, one could easily say, look at the idiots that actually paid money for the cards and used them to make a motorcycle sound in their bikes.

let me be clear, i am not saying this because i get it. it was the thing to do in that generation.

Dpeck100

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I'm so glad my introduction to baseball cards was in 1974 and not 1985, and was not colored by all this speculation and greed. >>



i started collecting around 85 as well and quite offended that you see this as speculation and greed... >>



I'm just reacting to dpeck's quote, not implying anything about individual collectors. The idea of a bunch of kids rushing to get the latest Beckett to see if their cards appreciated turns me off. >>




Most of the cards that everyone wanted to own were out my price range. A lot of kids parents bought them cards all of the time. I wasn't in that position.

So let me see if I am clear on your thoughts. I spent every penny I ever made up until my teenage years on cards or food at the baseball field. We weren't supposed to be excited to see our favorite cards that we spent every penny we had on go up in value?

PaulMaul

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I'm so glad my introduction to baseball cards was in 1974 and not 1985, and was not colored by all this speculation and greed. >>



i started collecting around 85 as well and quite offended that you see this as speculation and greed... >>



I'm just reacting to dpeck's quote, not implying anything about individual collectors. The idea of a bunch of kids rushing to get the latest Beckett to see if their cards appreciated turns me off. >>




Most of the cards that everyone wanted to own were out my price range. A lot of kids parents bought them cards all of the time. I wasn't in that position.

So let me see if I am clear on your thoughts. I spent every penny I ever made up until my teenage years on cards or food at the baseball field. We weren't supposed to be excited to see our favorite cards that we spent every penny we had on go up in value? >>



You were supposed to do whatever you wanted to do. I had a very different experience, in which the monetary value of the cards I was buying was a complete non-issue, and in comparing it to your experience, I prefer it that way.

Dpeck100

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I'm so glad my introduction to baseball cards was in 1974 and not 1985, and was not colored by all this speculation and greed. >>



i started collecting around 85 as well and quite offended that you see this as speculation and greed... >>



I'm just reacting to dpeck's quote, not implying anything about individual collectors. The idea of a bunch of kids rushing to get the latest Beckett to see if their cards appreciated turns me off. >>




Most of the cards that everyone wanted to own were out my price range. A lot of kids parents bought them cards all of the time. I wasn't in that position.

So let me see if I am clear on your thoughts. I spent every penny I ever made up until my teenage years on cards or food at the baseball field. We weren't supposed to be excited to see our favorite cards that we spent every penny we had on go up in value? >>



You were supposed to do whatever you wanted to do. I had a very different experience, in which the monetary value of the cards I was buying was a complete non-issue, and in comparing it to your experience, I prefer it that way. >>




None of us can control when we were born. Perhaps being born in an earlier era and collecting for only the love of it was more pure. That said when I worked my butt off mowing yards in the hot Florida sun and rode my bike up to the card shop I was hoping my purchase was worthwhile.

Every set has key cards and you naturally wanted to get those when you opened packs.

I view this early childhood experience as a good one and the fact that I couldn't afford the cards I wanted led me to working hard to try and be able to afford the things I might want in life.

thesouthdoesitagain

When it involves the 52 Mick, its always an investment!!!

Dnice

When I collected as a kid (around 87-91), I collected cards because I loved baseball and I enjoyed pulling out my favorite players. I wasnt concerned about collecting rookies or centered cards. Then around 91, I noticed my friends now collecting cards like 91 Stadium Club and even back buying 90 Leaf and was impressed by cards that were now $25 as opposed to the regular $2 I was use to owning. That was huge seeing that as a 12 year old kid. I felt my collection couldn't hold up to theirs because I couldn't offered 90 Leaf packs and TSC series 1 (Thomas and Griffey series).

Today I have more funds to play with and although I consider myself a player collector, I do purchase for investment purposes in mind although I purchase only what I could afford, meaning I'm not going to tap into my 401k just to purchase that highest graded Clemente rookie I can get (although that wouldn't be the worst thing to buy). I also do buy cards because of nostalgic purposes from my childhood. Maybe a PSA 10 rookie of a player that I really enjoyed that's only $100 just to own it because I didn't have it as a child.

So I guess both (but mostly investment).

KendallCat

<< <i>When I collected as a kid (around 87-91), I collected cards because I loved baseball and I enjoyed pulling out my favorite players. I wasnt concerned about collecting rookies or centered cards. Then around 91, I noticed my friends now collecting cards like 91 Stadium Club and even back buying 90 Leaf and was impressed by cards that were now $25 as opposed to the regular $2 I was use to owning. That was huge seeing that as a 12 year old kid. I felt my collection couldn't hold up to theirs because I couldn't offered 90 Leaf packs and TSC series 1 (Thomas and Griffey series).

Today I have more funds to play with and although I consider myself a player collector, I do purchase for investment purposes in mind although I purchase only what I could afford, meaning I'm not going to tap into my 401k just to purchase that highest graded Clemente rookie I can get (although that wouldn't be the worst thing to buy). I also do buy cards because of nostalgic purposes from my childhood. Maybe a PSA 10 rookie of a player that I really enjoyed that's only $100 just to own it because I didn't have it as a child.

So I guess both (but mostly investment). >>



I think the above quote is well stated. Some people collect just because they like the cards and it takes them back to a simpler time I their life. It also allows them to go back and get the Jordan rookie, Brett rookie, Mattingly rookie... you could not afford as a kid. With the rise in card prices some folks see cards as a fun way to invest outside of a Roth IRA or 401k. Should you pull 50% of your money out of a Roth for a Mantle - probably not; however, if you have some extra funds to spend and can enjoy a card that will also grow in value why not.

bishop

If you happened to grow up in San Antonio and we're counting on shoveling snow to support your card purchases you were SOL.

I liked the gum, except for the 1981 Topps Thirst Break gum. I like gum stains on cards too.

Been collecting baseball cards since 1957. I enjoy it and do not care what motives other folks have for doing it. To each their own.

RookieWax

If someone's sole motivation of putting money into cards was for investment purposes, I think they would be investing their money elsewhere....and wouldn't have ever been involved in cards in the first place. Its great to have the unique combination of being able to enjoy what you are buying along with the monetary potential.