Like Manorcourtman mentioned it would generate a lot of resubmissions. So it seems like it could be inevitable at some point. Personally I don't care too much either way. It would be nice to recognize them, but does muddy the waters with things like First Strike MS-67+ PL.
Add a PL designation to the PCGS label and watch what it will do to the values of coins in the registry sets. People who already have a couple hundred thousand wrapped up in their top sets would just keel over and die. Many of these players just don't know any better and would panic and feel like they would need to buy, buy, buy to stay on top while their other coins would lose value.
So now....... I'm all for it!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
If coins are available with PL surfaces and standards as to what it means on different coin types can be established, I see no reason why PCGS shouldn't designate PL when they meet the established standards. I'll go one further and say that AU58 should also be eligible for PL.
"It would be nice to recognize them, but does muddy the waters with things like First Strike MS-67+ PL."
If Registry sets are currently receiving an extra bonus point of weight for the "marketing gimmick" (or some might argue marketing genius) of "First Strike", surely it would not be terribly difficult to award "PL" graded coins an extra point or possibly two points for DMPL graded coins.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
PCGS, I agree with the original post. Please consider adding PL and DMPL to coins that are not Morgans. If you can do it for Morgans, you can do it for other coins.
most view the addition of PL and DMPL designations for Mint State issues across the board from the perspective of what value it will add to coins which are given the designation(s). I tend to look at it from the other side of things, the way it will affect(not impact, I hate that word) the coins without the added designation(s) on the label. for the most part, every time a designation is added the coins that aren't FS, FBL, FSB, etc. tend to go down in value.
I am in favor of the designations. Go for it PCGS. Classifying the double dies did not hurt the values of either variety coins, or non variety coins. As to any negative effect it may have on other non PL coins of value, well, maybe the holders of those coins did not buy the right coin.
I agree Mitch it is silly that they do not. i was also in favor of the grading decimal system or the 700 pt scale over 10 years ago which they kind of do with the plus now. They should be able to dial in exactly like NGC does. I personally have several DPL NGC coins and they should be separated from the regular coins since they are so much nicer to look at.
PCGS tends to give a grade boost from my experience for watery flash so pre-holdered coins will be over graded when they go back for re-grade. They would probably move forward with no "grade" bonus just strike characteristic. Another area would be the "Full Strike" designation that you brought up on the boards millennia ago.
<< <i>most view the addition of PL and DMPL designations for Mint State issues across the board from the perspective of what value it will add to coins which are given the designation(s). I tend to look at it from the other side of things, the way it will affect(not impact, I hate that word) the coins without the added designation(s) on the label. for the most part, every time a designation is added the coins that aren't FS, FBL, FSB, etc. tend to go down in value. >>
You raise a good point.
I think of primarily in terms of marketability. Just finding PL's now is difficult simply because they aren't identified. If they could be identified by the services and searched and searched on the net there would be more collectors and more demand. I would hope this increased demand was new demand that brought more people into collecting a series rather than demand created by abandoning other series or other grades.
I've heard numerous modern proof collectors say they'd collect business strikes as well if they looked like proofs. I always tell them some do but finding PL's and finding clean PL's is extremely difficult. Many dates only come vaguely PL or are made by normal dies but are first strikes on polished planchets or made by polished dies. There are different looks and causes of PL.
Mark: Of course, it is a "no brainer" and if I was running the services I would recognize the obvious. After all, why select one series of coins for the designation only (Morgans)? And, then use the designation "here and there" such as on 2014-S Kennedy Half Dollars, but not any of the other dates in the series? Or, on 2009 UHR's but not on Mint State Modern Silver Commems (some of which come in amazing PL such as the "World Cup" coins). I believe the problem is the "work" gathering up the coin numbers and the labor setting them all up on such scarce to rare coins that the pops might be 1 or 2 on many of the coins for years to come. I do think it comes down to the "dolalrs and cents". BUT, this is the type of Goodwill needed today for collectors to give the registry sets a "shot in the arm". Do I see this happening any time soon ... no. But, it should.
Just my two cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Plus was another "designation" and that didn't seem to negatively effect or affect the market in a tangible way. It simply was a designation to denote a premium aspect of a coin. This is why it is done for Morgans. It should simply be applied to other coins.
Seems like it would be really difficult to have a consistent standard of what is PL and what is DMPL for each series. With Morgan Dollars, it's still not 100% consistent of what qualifies for PL and what it takes to be DMPL and they've been using that from the start with those coins. If they did start using the PL/DMPL designation on all series, I would expect many issues with it depending on who is grading the coins and what they personally think it takes to be a PL in that series.
It's clear that NGC (and ANACS which also uses PL on other series) have difficultly using the PL designation with consistency as there are plenty of NGC non-Morgans out there w/ the PL designation that probably do not deserve it. And there are certainly many non-Morgans w/o the designation that clearly deserve a PL. Also, for NGC designated PL coins, there are coins with their PL designation that would not be considered a PL if it were a Morgan Dollar with the same look, even though that look is special and different for its particular series. For example, the dime and quarter posted in this thread look really neat and would have a good shot at the NGC PL designation, but if you had a Morgan Dollar with that exact look, not sure it would be considered a PL - tough to tell from the photos though.
If PCGS did a PL designation across the board on all coins, would they need to establish separate rules of what is PL/DMPL for every coin series and teach that to their graders?
I like prooflike coins and have several (with and without the designations from the graders) and I do not think PCGS needs to start doing this, just way too complicated and will cause quite a bit of confusion, especially where the inevitable inconsistency would start to show.
<< <i>"It would be nice to recognize them, but does muddy the waters with things like First Strike MS-67+ PL."
If Registry sets are currently receiving an extra bonus point of weight for the "marketing gimmick" (or some might argue marketing genius) of "First Strike", surely it would not be terribly difficult to award "PL" graded coins an extra point or possibly two points for DMPL graded coins.
Wondercoin >>
For a nominal fee of course.
Oh wait, that would be a full grading fee! What was I thinking?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Good comments. But, PCGS already believes that they can do this for Morgans. They also give PLUS designations (that seems just as ethereal) . NGC already does it for Non-Morgans.
It would be as consistent as what all 3rd party Grading Companies do. I think that PCGS would do a fine and consistent job.
The A and B position for side lettering on the Presidential series was overkill and helped wipe the series' popularity out in my opinion but strike characteristics that are on the surfaces of the coins are as Mitch says a "no brainer" I think they can do this in a business sense easily.
I know that ANACS does PL and DMPL on any U.S. Mint State coin that deserves the designation. I do not know what their requirements are, but I have seen both used on Seated material, on gold, and on moderns, and for the most part, the coins do have a special look. Pretty sure the PCGS graders could also make this call accurately and consistently.
As with most things, if enough customers ask, the company will eventually comply. So ask already!
I think that the demand from the modern collectors is definitely there for PL and DMPL designations, and PCGS would have an added revenue stream, so as Mitch put it " it's a no brainier".
"The A and B position for side lettering on the Presidential series was overkill and helped wipe the series' popularity out in my opinion but strike characteristics that are on the surfaces of the coins are as Mitch says a "no brainer" I think they can do this in a business sense easily."
Mark: I think what helped wipe out the series' popularity was actually the weak edge lettering, partial edge lettering and myriad other "varieties" that were all given coin numbers. When I saw that "partial edge lettering" was defined as a single letter on the edge missing a portion of the letter only, I knew the end was near for those. That said, I would not be surprised at all to see a renewed interest in the top pop business strikes Pres $1 coins down the road as they are near impossible to locate. I remember when my daughter Lauren screened 5,000 Andrew Jackson D mint coins in a single day and, from that search, slabbed the pop 1/0 MS67 coin at PCGS (still Pop 1/0 to this day). She gave it to her brother as a gift for his (at the time) #1 business strike set, who later did a private treaty deal with a fellow board member who then gave Justin the credit for the coin in his world class registry collection. But, it was Lauren that originally screened 5,000 Jackson coins in a single day who found that jewel. For those who don't do this on a regular basis (like myself and Mark) try screening 5,000 of anything in a single day and tell me if you are ready for your next 5,000 batch the next day
Wondercoin
edited to add ... if you are ready to screen that next batch of 5,000 coins the next day ... please send me a PM as we need to talk!!
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Mitch, right on the edge lettering. I should have expanded to say that to have a complete collection of them including all the varieties was too much for any collector. The grading companies and mint are in the process of killing this currently with too much variety - they need to try and keep it "special" IMHO.
PL and DPL coins are the best of the best when you can find them in high grade as well or FT/FS etc.
IMO "first strike" is a meaningless designation-VEDS (very early die state) is better and actually means something. Replace it with the prooflike attribute or maybe with some kind of moniker designating visually superior eye appeal such as color.
<< <i>IMO "first strike" is a meaningless designation-VEDS (very early die state) is better and actually means something. Replace it with the prooflike attribute or maybe with some kind of moniker designating visually superior eye appeal such as color. >>
I would agree that I like the look of a well made VEDS and preserved VEDS clad coin to a PL in many cases. A PL often seems to not even belong in a collection of business strikes but a VEDS fits like a glove and is stunningly beautiful. A VEDS coin reminds you what's so great about high grade coins.
I agree with Mitch. If Morgan dollars can be PL and DMPL, why can't the same designations be applied to other series? Dealers in Morgans sold coins described as PL at a premium as far back as the 1960's. I've owned some PL Mercury dimes and Kennedy halves (and a DMPL 1966 Kennedy business strike) for many years, but will not consider submitting them to PCGS if they're not going to recognized for what they are.
As I've stated here before-the die state of a coin is a critical part of eye appeal that's overlooked by almost everyone. If you look at a coin struck from fresh dies (doesn't have to be prooflike) and compare that coin with one struck from worn out dies the difference is immediately obvious and can be dramatic.
<< As I've stated here before-the die state of a coin is a critical part of eye appeal that's overlooked by almost everyone. If you look at a coin struck from fresh dies (doesn't have to be prooflike) and compare that coin with one struck from worn out dies the difference is immediately obvious and can be dramatic. >>
I completely agree with KoyneKWest's above quoted post. -- Well stated!!
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Mitch, the problem is, no one wants to pay the premium for the better PL coin. >>
Really nice PL's are among my favorite clad coins.
You're right that I personally wouldn't pay any premium for common date PL's if they are all scratched up. Marking shows up especially well on PL's so they can look even worse than a non-PL in the same grade.
By the same token though I'd pay a premium for a scarce date PL like a '74-P dime even if it weren't pretty.
<I like prooflike coins and have several (with and without the designations from the graders) and I do not think PCGS needs to start doing this, just way too complicated and will cause quite a bit of confusion, especially where the inevitable inconsistency would start to show. >
Like people with deep pockets who have little or no knowledge whatsoever what a collector's coin should look like. Yeah, the very few that do, we're enjoying that ride.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
<< <i>"The A and B position for side lettering on the Presidential series was overkill and helped wipe the series' popularity out in my opinion but strike characteristics that are on the surfaces of the coins are as Mitch says a "no brainer" I think they can do this in a business sense easily."
Mark: I think what helped wipe out the series' popularity was actually the weak edge lettering, partial edge lettering and myriad other "varieties" that were all given coin numbers. When I saw that "partial edge lettering" was defined as a single letter on the edge missing a portion of the letter only, I knew the end was near for those. That said, I would not be surprised at all to see a renewed interest in the top pop business strikes Pres $1 coins down the road as they are near impossible to locate. I remember when my daughter Lauren screened 5,000 Andrew Jackson D mint coins in a single day and, from that search, slabbed the pop 1/0 MS67 coin at PCGS (still Pop 1/0 to this day). She gave it to her brother as a gift for his (at the time) #1 business strike set, who later did a private treaty deal with a fellow board member who then gave Justin the credit for the coin in his world class registry collection. But, it was Lauren that originally screened 5,000 Jackson coins in a single day who found that jewel. For those who don't do this on a regular basis (like myself and Mark) try screening 5,000 of anything in a single day and tell me if you are ready for your next 5,000 batch the next day
Wondercoin
edited to add ... if you are ready to screen that next batch of 5,000 coins the next day ... please send me a PM as we need to talk!! >>
And the Minnesota extra tree leaves varieties that number into the dozens wasn't an overkill?
"And the Minnesota extra tree leaves varieties that number into the dozens wasn't an overkill?"
You mean number in the scores!! I will likely never have a (complete) complete variety set of Washington Quarters because I have chosen not to collect them. But, I do not fault the next guy for collecting them either.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
"Mitch, the problem is, no one wants to pay the premium for the better PL coin."
And, what do you base this on? PCGS charged nearly double the price for PL 2014-S Kennedy coins and tons of people paid the price. PCGS charged more than 3x the price for the 2014-S Kennedy 70 DMPL and the lucky few that got the coins happily paid the price.
And, I doubt the UHR collectors are complaining who paid the extra money to turn their MS70FS UHR into an MS70PL FS and watched their coin jump from $4,000 to $16,000!!
Sorry Leo ... plenty are ready, willing and able to pay up for the designation recognition - no doubt!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
"The extra PL and DMPL designations will probably eventually come as overall revenues dictate. Could take a while though."
RR ... As usual, you hit the nail on the head. The PL's came easy for the 2014-S Silver Kennedy Half Dollars because probably a good 1/4 - 1/3 of all the coins are PL. With a 225,000 mintage, grading PL's took all of about a week to get approval for and the grading fee went from $30 to $55 to grade 70PL instead of straight 70. The 70DMPL fee went to $150 and boy was I happy to pay it (the few times I got lucky and scored one from the roughly -500-++ sets I have submitted). Ditto for the UHR's - hundreds and hundreds have qualified at a big premium fee to get them graded - and I LOVED paying every cent of it.
So, let's recognize all the other great PL and DMPL business strike coins and not do it piecemeal - one here and one there, as has been the case thus far.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Mitch, the problem is, no one wants to pay the premium for the better PL coin. >>
Really nice PL's are among my favorite clad coins.
You're right that I personally wouldn't pay any premium for common date PL's if they are all scratched up. Marking shows up especially well on PL's so they can look even worse than a non-PL in the same grade.
By the same token though I'd pay a premium for a scarce date PL like a '74-P dime even if it weren't pretty. >>
Same here but right now. without the dezignation, you would pay a lot less. I think that there are more with a limited budget especially those who are only collecting and not selling that would rather not see a designation for PL business strikes. And for the common, horrible condition type PL coin, I have one in an ANACS MS64 1940-D JN like that. Marky, missing details but yet it's highly prooflike, likely from an over-buffed planchet. I don't believe Denver made too many proof coins where a proof planchet would have been involved. Likely an anomaly similar to Mitch's coin. And then there are the one sided PL BS-coins. There would be he!! to pay if those didn't receive a designation.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
<< <i>"Mitch, the problem is, no one wants to pay the premium for the better PL coin."
And, what do you base this on? PCGS charged nearly double the price for PL 2014-S Kennedy coins and tons of people paid the price. PCGS charged more than 3x the price for the 2014-S Kennedy 70 DMPL and the lucky few that got the coins happily paid the price.
And, I doubt the UHR collectors are complaining who paid the extra money to turn their MS70FS UHR into an MS70PL FS and watched their coin jump from $4,000 to $16,000!!
Sorry Leo ... plenty are ready, willing and able to pay up for the designation recognition - no doubt!
Wondercoin >>
Those are your words Mitch, just change the PL to 6 step.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
One must acknowledge that 1949-S Franklins in dmpl are worth more than their frosty siblings grade for grade. Same holds true for any dmpl Roosie and Washington 25c (any date.)
So yes, it would most helpful to certify and designate these coins as such!
Comments
So now.......
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
There's nothing wrong with that. Maybe the question is "do you think PL's should ever be recognized?".
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
If Registry sets are currently receiving an extra bonus point of weight for the "marketing gimmick" (or some might argue marketing genius) of "First Strike", surely it would not be terribly difficult to award "PL" graded coins an extra point or possibly two points for DMPL graded coins.
Wondercoin
keoj
Go for it PCGS.
Classifying the double dies did not hurt the values of either variety coins, or non variety coins.
As to any negative effect it may have on other non PL coins of value, well, maybe the holders of those coins did not buy the right coin.
PCGS tends to give a grade boost from my experience for watery flash so pre-holdered coins will be over graded when they go back for re-grade. They would probably move forward with no "grade" bonus just strike characteristic. Another area would be the "Full Strike" designation that you brought up on the boards millennia ago.
<< <i>most view the addition of PL and DMPL designations for Mint State issues across the board from the perspective of what value it will add to coins which are given the designation(s). I tend to look at it from the other side of things, the way it will affect(not impact, I hate that word) the coins without the added designation(s) on the label. for the most part, every time a designation is added the coins that aren't FS, FBL, FSB, etc. tend to go down in value. >>
You raise a good point.
I think of primarily in terms of marketability. Just finding PL's now is difficult simply
because they aren't identified. If they could be identified by the services and searched
and searched on the net there would be more collectors and more demand. I would hope
this increased demand was new demand that brought more people into collecting a series
rather than demand created by abandoning other series or other grades.
I've heard numerous modern proof collectors say they'd collect business strikes as well if
they looked like proofs. I always tell them some do but finding PL's and finding clean PL's
is extremely difficult. Many dates only come vaguely PL or are made by normal dies but are
first strikes on polished planchets or made by polished dies. There are different looks and
causes of PL.
Just my two cents.
Wondercoin
keoj
It's clear that NGC (and ANACS which also uses PL on other series) have difficultly using the PL designation with consistency as there are plenty of NGC non-Morgans out there w/ the PL designation that probably do not deserve it. And there are certainly many non-Morgans w/o the designation that clearly deserve a PL. Also, for NGC designated PL coins, there are coins with their PL designation that would not be considered a PL if it were a Morgan Dollar with the same look, even though that look is special and different for its particular series. For example, the dime and quarter posted in this thread look really neat and would have a good shot at the NGC PL designation, but if you had a Morgan Dollar with that exact look, not sure it would be considered a PL - tough to tell from the photos though.
If PCGS did a PL designation across the board on all coins, would they need to establish separate rules of what is PL/DMPL for every coin series and teach that to their graders?
I like prooflike coins and have several (with and without the designations from the graders) and I do not think PCGS needs to start doing this, just way too complicated and will cause quite a bit of confusion, especially where the inevitable inconsistency would start to show.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>"It would be nice to recognize them, but does muddy the waters with things like First Strike MS-67+ PL."
If Registry sets are currently receiving an extra bonus point of weight for the "marketing gimmick" (or some might argue marketing genius) of "First Strike", surely it would not be terribly difficult to award "PL" graded coins an extra point or possibly two points for DMPL graded coins.
Wondercoin >>
For a nominal fee of course.
Oh wait, that would be a full grading fee! What was I thinking?
The name is LEE!
Good comments. But, PCGS already believes that they can do this for Morgans. They also give PLUS designations (that seems just as ethereal) . NGC already does it for Non-Morgans.
It would be as consistent as what all 3rd party Grading Companies do. I think that PCGS would do a fine and consistent job.
keoj
My answer is an emphatic NO.
requirements are, but I have seen both used on Seated material, on gold, and on moderns, and for the most part, the coins
do have a special look. Pretty sure the PCGS graders could also make this call accurately and consistently.
As with most things, if enough customers ask, the company will eventually comply. So ask already!
<< <i>And while we're at it, how about CAM and DCAM designations for business strikes and SMS coins?
I might even start a registry set of SMS DMPL DCAM Kennedys! >>
that is too much.
.
Mark: I think what helped wipe out the series' popularity was actually the weak edge lettering, partial edge lettering and myriad other "varieties" that were all given coin numbers. When I saw that "partial edge lettering" was defined as a single letter on the edge missing a portion of the letter only, I knew the end was near for those. That said, I would not be surprised at all to see a renewed interest in the top pop business strikes Pres $1 coins down the road as they are near impossible to locate. I remember when my daughter Lauren screened 5,000 Andrew Jackson D mint coins in a single day and, from that search, slabbed the pop 1/0 MS67 coin at PCGS (still Pop 1/0 to this day). She gave it to her brother as a gift for his (at the time) #1 business strike set, who later did a private treaty deal with a fellow board member who then gave Justin the credit for the coin in his world class registry collection. But, it was Lauren that originally screened 5,000 Jackson coins in a single day who found that jewel. For those who don't do this on a regular basis (like myself and Mark) try screening 5,000 of anything in a single day and tell me if you are ready for your next 5,000 batch the next day
Wondercoin
edited to add ... if you are ready to screen that next batch of 5,000 coins the next day ... please send me a PM as we need to talk!!
Exactly Pat. There is the question of the added fee for the designation ... a fee I would happily pay.
Wondercoin
PL and DPL coins are the best of the best when you can find them in high grade as well or FT/FS etc.
<< <i>IMO "first strike" is a meaningless designation-VEDS (very early die state) is better and actually means something. Replace it with the prooflike attribute or maybe with some kind of moniker designating visually superior eye appeal such as color. >>
I would agree that I like the look of a well made VEDS and preserved VEDS clad coin
to a PL in many cases. A PL often seems to not even belong in a collection of business
strikes but a VEDS fits like a glove and is stunningly beautiful. A VEDS coin reminds you
what's so great about high grade coins.
Jim
I completely agree with KoyneKWest's above quoted post. -- Well stated!!
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
<< <i>"For those of you voting, "no"- how would PCGS doing so interfere and/or diminish the way you collect?"
Exactly Pat. There is the question of the added fee for the designation ... a fee I would happily pay.
Wondercoin >>
Mitch, the problem is, no one wants to pay the premium for the better PL coin.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
Mitch, the problem is, no one wants to pay the premium for the better PL coin. >>
Really nice PL's are among my favorite clad coins.
You're right that I personally wouldn't pay any premium for common date PL's if they
are all scratched up. Marking shows up especially well on PL's so they can look even
worse than a non-PL in the same grade.
By the same token though I'd pay a premium for a scarce date PL like a '74-P dime
even if it weren't pretty.
<< <i>"For those of you voting, "no"- how would PCGS doing so interfere and/or diminish the way you collect?"
Exactly Pat. There is the question of the added fee for the designation ... a fee I would happily pay.
Wondercoin >>
Mitch, the problem is, no one wants to pay the premium (more) for the better PL coin.
Leo
Apologies for the dupe but my posts weren't showing up.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Like people with deep pockets who have little or no knowledge whatsoever what a collector's coin should look like. Yeah, the very few that do, we're enjoying that ride.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>try screening 5,000 of anything in a single day and tell me if you are ready for your next 5,000 batch the next day Wondercoin
edited to add ... if you are ready to screen that next batch of 5,000 coins the next day ... please send me a PM as we need to talk!! >>
Just part of the routine.... Can't find'em if you don't screen them....
<< <i>"The A and B position for side lettering on the Presidential series was overkill and helped wipe the series' popularity out in my opinion but strike characteristics that are on the surfaces of the coins are as Mitch says a "no brainer" I think they can do this in a business sense easily."
Mark: I think what helped wipe out the series' popularity was actually the weak edge lettering, partial edge lettering and myriad other "varieties" that were all given coin numbers. When I saw that "partial edge lettering" was defined as a single letter on the edge missing a portion of the letter only, I knew the end was near for those. That said, I would not be surprised at all to see a renewed interest in the top pop business strikes Pres $1 coins down the road as they are near impossible to locate. I remember when my daughter Lauren screened 5,000 Andrew Jackson D mint coins in a single day and, from that search, slabbed the pop 1/0 MS67 coin at PCGS (still Pop 1/0 to this day). She gave it to her brother as a gift for his (at the time) #1 business strike set, who later did a private treaty deal with a fellow board member who then gave Justin the credit for the coin in his world class registry collection. But, it was Lauren that originally screened 5,000 Jackson coins in a single day who found that jewel. For those who don't do this on a regular basis (like myself and Mark) try screening 5,000 of anything in a single day and tell me if you are ready for your next 5,000 batch the next day
Wondercoin
edited to add ... if you are ready to screen that next batch of 5,000 coins the next day ... please send me a PM as we need to talk!! >>
And the Minnesota extra tree leaves varieties that number into the dozens wasn't an overkill?
Later, Paul.
edited to add ... if you are ready to screen that next batch of 5,000 coins the next day ... please send me a PM as we need to talk!! >>
Just part of the routine.... Can't find'em if you don't screen them...."
One of the true handful of powerhouse Mint State modern coin screeners who can make a good living doing it - MAS.
Wondercoin
You mean number in the scores!! I will likely never have a (complete) complete variety set of Washington Quarters because I have chosen not to collect them. But, I do not fault the next guy for collecting them either.
Wondercoin
And, what do you base this on? PCGS charged nearly double the price for PL 2014-S Kennedy coins and tons of people paid the price. PCGS charged more than 3x the price for the 2014-S Kennedy 70 DMPL and the lucky few that got the coins happily paid the price.
And, I doubt the UHR collectors are complaining who paid the extra money to turn their MS70FS UHR into an MS70PL FS and watched their coin jump from $4,000 to $16,000!!
Sorry Leo ... plenty are ready, willing and able to pay up for the designation recognition - no doubt!
Wondercoin
RR ... As usual, you hit the nail on the head. The PL's came easy for the 2014-S Silver Kennedy Half Dollars because probably a good 1/4 - 1/3 of all the coins are PL. With a 225,000 mintage, grading PL's took all of about a week to get approval for and the grading fee went from $30 to $55 to grade 70PL instead of straight 70. The 70DMPL fee went to $150 and boy was I happy to pay it (the few times I got lucky and scored one from the roughly -500-++ sets I have submitted). Ditto for the UHR's - hundreds and hundreds have qualified at a big premium fee to get them graded - and I LOVED paying every cent of it.
So, let's recognize all the other great PL and DMPL business strike coins and not do it piecemeal - one here and one there, as has been the case thus far.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
<< <i>
<< <i>
Mitch, the problem is, no one wants to pay the premium for the better PL coin. >>
Really nice PL's are among my favorite clad coins.
You're right that I personally wouldn't pay any premium for common date PL's if they
are all scratched up. Marking shows up especially well on PL's so they can look even
worse than a non-PL in the same grade.
By the same token though I'd pay a premium for a scarce date PL like a '74-P dime
even if it weren't pretty. >>
Same here but right now. without the dezignation, you would pay a lot less. I think that there are more with a limited budget especially those who are only collecting and not selling that would rather not see a designation for PL business strikes. And for the common, horrible condition type PL coin, I have one in an ANACS MS64 1940-D JN like that. Marky, missing details but yet it's highly prooflike, likely from an over-buffed planchet. I don't believe Denver made too many proof coins where a proof planchet would have been involved. Likely an anomaly similar to Mitch's coin.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>"Mitch, the problem is, no one wants to pay the premium for the better PL coin."
And, what do you base this on? PCGS charged nearly double the price for PL 2014-S Kennedy coins and tons of people paid the price. PCGS charged more than 3x the price for the 2014-S Kennedy 70 DMPL and the lucky few that got the coins happily paid the price.
And, I doubt the UHR collectors are complaining who paid the extra money to turn their MS70FS UHR into an MS70PL FS and watched their coin jump from $4,000 to $16,000!!
Sorry Leo ... plenty are ready, willing and able to pay up for the designation recognition - no doubt!
Wondercoin >>
Those are your words Mitch, just change the PL to 6 step.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>And then there are the one sided PL BS-coins. There would be he!! to pay if those didn't receive a designation.
>>
Good point. Lots of '80-D quarters and nickels have extremely PL reverses but not obverses.
How are these going to be graded?
Wondercoin
Same way Morgans are, UHR's are, 2014-S Kennedys are, etc. I see no problem.
Wondercoin
So yes, it would most helpful to certify and designate these coins as such!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection