What would you pay for PWCC's sticker?
hammered
Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭
This bidder will pay 4X VCP.
1974 Ryan PSA 9
Without the sticker, this goes for under $500, as I believe this card has only exceeded $500 once.
Bump to PSA 10? Maybe, if the grader chooses to ignore the small print dots near the middle of the card.
$500 card, $1100 sticker. I gotta say, brilliant move by PWCC.
1974 Ryan PSA 9
Without the sticker, this goes for under $500, as I believe this card has only exceeded $500 once.
Bump to PSA 10? Maybe, if the grader chooses to ignore the small print dots near the middle of the card.
$500 card, $1100 sticker. I gotta say, brilliant move by PWCC.
0
Comments
4 times what the card is worth
ETA: However that is the sharpest 9 I have ever seen from this set.
<< <i>Do we really need another PWCC sticker thread? Have another glass of Haterade. >>
No. What we need is more Bo Jackson threads on the 1st page.
<< <i>Do we really need another PWCC sticker thread? Have another glass of Haterade. >>
I don't think anyone hates PWCC. I think that PWCC is in a unique position to add to all of the good that
they bring to the hobby and benefit all interested stakeholders instead of just sellers and themselves with
this sticker idea.
Give us a way to enter a flip number that will bring up the PWCC images of the item when it was sold
by them so that we can see if there are significant differences when we see items offered for resale
in the future. I benefit as a buyer because I avoid tampered-with items. I benefit as a seller because
buyers know that my item appears the same as when I bought it from PWCC. That's worth some
premium (which means everyone including PWCC wins) and adds value to all.
Dave
I'd probably consider myself a cheap, bargain card collector. To me, finding cheap(ish) raw cards or even graded cards for great prices is part of the enjoyment I get out of the hobby. Nothing makes me feel better then when I buy a raw vintage hof rookie for a great price and have it grade higher than expected.
So what would I pay for pwcc's sticker? Nothing.
<< <i>
<< <i>Do we really need another PWCC sticker thread? Have another glass of Haterade. >>
No. What we need is more Bo Jackson threads on the 1st page. >>
This, I can help with.
<< <i>
<< <i>Do we really need another PWCC sticker thread? Have another glass of Haterade. >>
I don't think anyone hates PWCC. I think that PWCC is in a unique position to add to all of the good that
they bring to the hobby and benefit all interested stakeholders instead of just sellers and themselves with
this sticker idea.
Give us a way to enter a flip number that will bring up the PWCC images of the item when it was sold
by them so that we can see if there are significant differences when we see items offered for resale
in the future. I benefit as a buyer because I avoid tampered-with items. I benefit as a seller because
buyers know that my item appears the same as when I bought it from PWCC. That's worth some
premium (which means everyone including PWCC wins) and adds value to all. >>
Thanks for a thoughtful response. I'm not a proponent of the sticker. It just seems like everyone has had a say about what they think of the sticker. It's fine if you don't like it or think PWCC should have done something different. Brent opened a thread here for feedback. Folks should leave their feedback there and move on, allowing him to run his business how he sees fit. I'd like to see pick-ups or have meaningful discussions instead of read more threads with high-end with sarcastic quotations the subject. The sticker conversation seems like it's moaning at this point, IMO. Here is my take: If you look at the card and it isn't high end in your opinion, don't bid.
<< <i>No. What we need is more Bo Jackson threads on the 1st page. >>
+1
This made me chuckle.
<< <i>I don't think this is all about PWCC's sticker. It's just the latest trend in irrational exuberance, buying ultra high grade rookies and superstars at any price. >>
Conspicuous consumption!
STOP THE MADNESS!!!!
Only kidding.
Beckett has already developed this. There are 9.5's and then there are "high end" 9.5's that are .5 from a 10. Then there are 10's and then there are "black label" 10's. You will rarely see a Beckett 9.5 or better that doesn't look centered, you will see many PSA 10's that aren't.
I think what people are wondering is why a card that has been going for $400 in a PSA 9 suddenly jumps to $1600 seemingly overnight. An 8 is sitting on Ebay for $46 bin, but a couple of folks are willing to drive it up to $1600. When a lot of people are wondering about shill bidding with certain online groups and then question a certificate only to see a card that has no business selling for such a high price it could cause problems in the future. If you have inventory now is the time to sell. Cannot wait to see buy and sell prices at the National - both will be super high IMO.
<< <i>I really have a hard time paying more than what a card is worth. I'm probably not what you would call a "die hard" collector. Very rarely (if ever) have I came across a card and said to myself, "I will pay anything for it". I just can't spend significntly more then what the card has sold for in the past in any condition. To me, paying 4x vcp for that 74 Ryan (or any card for that matter) is just not worth it. And I understand there are a lot of variables that go into why people pay these prices; large disposable incomes, the registry, low pop etc... But it's not for me.
I'd probably consider myself a cheap, bargain card collector. To me, finding cheap(ish) raw cards or even graded cards for great prices is part of the enjoyment I get out of the hobby. Nothing makes me feel better then when I buy a raw vintage hof rookie for a great price and have it grade higher than expected.
So what would I pay for pwcc's sticker? Nothing. >>
What a card is worth is whatever someone is willing to pay, not the VCP average and definitely not what SMR says. And sometimes, new highs establish a new floor for many sellers. This is how many values have been climbing steadily.
For those ragging on the PWCC sticker, would you feel the same way if it was affixed to the card you consigned to Brent to sell?
Why isn't the Ryan in question a "10"? Here's where a 9.5 would make sense in accurately grading a card that was this nice but PSA didn't want to give it a "10".
I remember bidding on a 1959 Killebrew PSA 8 that was near perfectly centered and the bidding got to be double what the price for an "8" had been going for at the time.
Really has nothing to do with any sticker IMO, bidders probably thinking it would bump to a "10".
There is an emotional component to collecting anything that simply prohibits viewing cards or any collectible through the reductive prism of mere dollars and cents.
Often times, a spike in price from historical average prices is simply the function of two-- or sometimes many more-- impassioned collectors who want a specific card at the same moment in time, for whatever their personal reasons.
I had a snipe set for over 3x the "average" for a card in yesterday's PWCC listings. I wound up landing it for 2x the average, but if there was another crazy collector like me out there (or God Forbid more!) it would have sold for even more. In my collecting experience, and very sadly for my wallet, it is rapidly becoming normal for a pretty card to command a big fat premium over what some others in the same TPG-assigned grade have sold for. When this happens, it understandably raises some eyebrows, but in the end collectors and auctions can often meet and cause some fireworks. The thrill of winning an auction of a piece one finds beautiful or desirable for any reason is I guess an extra fun component of collecting, for some.
This is not to say that more nefarious causes for surges don't exist, such as shilling. But I can easily see two or more collectors liking a high end card, and seeing what the next grade up would cost (in this case a 10), and setting very high max bids that still fall well short of that next grade. I do it all the time when I really want and like a card, and the old VCP prices be damned!
With thousands and thousands or more of us baseball card collectors out there, it wouldn't surprise me if one or two guys had the perfect storm of attachment to the 1974 Ryan, desire to own a nice copy, and pockets to battle it out. Some cards a collector loves from his youth for particular reasons, and when they see the copy they want, no matter what the sticker grade is, they can set bananas snipes for them.
Instagram: mattyc_collection
Dave
<< <i>Conspicuous consumption! >>
High-calibur cunspicuous cunsumption.
* On one hand there were two collectors that saw a very nice 1974 Ryan and decided they wanted the card and were willing to pay a high price for it. While VCP and recent sales the last 3 years have consistently been in the $400-450 range this card hit $1600.
* On the other hand there have been many discussion on this board and others concerning very large dealers who "could" potentially have examples of shill bidding on their auctions, questionable scans, sales of items known to be fakes(Xmas racks), but also have tremendous items that sell for far above Ebay and VCP averages. They provide excellent scans, great cards, and if you look at the items on Ebay they dominate the high end card market.
The big thing is the new pwcc certified high end, and if they get great returns on early cards that sell what do you think is going to happen to future sales of their regular cards as well as their certified high end ones? Be interesting to see.
<< <i>I collect Topps BB cards, not PWCC stickers
+1. The certification sticker is brilliant but somewhat insulting to those who have been in the hobby for 30+ years. If buyers can't determine for themselves the difference between average grades and high end grades then I guess the sticker serves a purpose. The question is, would the Ryan have fetched 1600.00 without the certification? I agree with the 1600.00 high grade 9 vs. 10 price tag argument.
I have great respect for Brent and his accomplishments. I have purchased many cards from PWCC and have never been disappointed.
Did I pay more than SMR or VCP? Absolutely! This certification sticker though is a mess in my opinion. The certification allows novice collectors to purchase a potentially high grade card without discretion. Maybe I'm a dinosaur in the hobby, but isn't the personal challenge of seeking out that fat in the case blazer that jumps out grabs you by the throat and takes your breath away the essence of collecting? This certification is just another example of instant gratification and takes the fun out of sniping an ultra high grade card at a reasonable price.
Now I am humble enough in my opinion to admit that if it were my idea and I was reaping the financial benefits of this brilliant marketing decision my thoughts might be different. I guess it's still a hobby to me and not a stock market transaction.
<< <i>I collect Topps BB cards, not PWCC stickers
I like that as well, but would slightly rephrase to:
I collect cards, not stickers-- be they PWCCs or a TPGs.
<< <i>The certification sticker is brilliant but somewhat insulting to those who have been in the hobby for 30+ years. If buyers can't determine for themselves the difference between average grades and high end grades... >>
This holds for TPG grades themselves as well. Brent and some grader in a cubicle are both issuing stickers, end of the day. All just opinions, weighed and valued by everyone to different degrees.
Instagram: mattyc_collection