Chance Lebron could be NBA Finals MVP with Cavs losing finals?
BLUEJAYWAY
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Has only happened once-68/69 finals. Jerry West won it while on the Lakers who lost to the Celtics. This was the first year Finals MVP trophy awarded. With LBJ numbers it's possible though unlikely the Cavs could lose, with LBJ being awarded the MVP crown. No one else has stood out for either side as yet except LBJ. Any other sports where the losing team in the finals had the MVP?
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the nightmare for the judges would be if the series goes to seven games, with LeBron playing like he did in games 1-3 and Curry playing average in 5-6 but having nice numbers in game seven and dropping the winner at the buzzer. that would equate to LeBron having six strong games and carrying his team while Curry would have two strong games and the winning shot.
I would expect Curry to win. overall for Golden State it would be hard to find one standout, but maybe Klay has been the most consistent and reliable.
Mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Sure, James is singlehandedly making this series interesting, but his numbers are more because of the minutes he's playing and the lack of Irving and Love. On the season, he shot almost 49% from the field. In this series he's a shade under 40%. That's a big drop off. And when you are missing 60% of your shots and still taking 32+ per game, that doesn't bode well for your team.
Chuck Howley won the Super Bowl MVP for Dallas the year they lost to the Colts 16 - 13.
<< <i>Right now, Igoudala would be my pick for the Dubs. >>
Please tell me why. 14 points and 6 boards a game doesn't exactly scream MVP. Nor does 6 for 18 from the free throw line. Oh, it's his defense. Lebron scored at a record pace the 1st 3 games with Igoudala covering him.
<< <i>Definitely Curry. He had 1 terrible game. Other than that he's had a pretty solid series especially when the game has been on the line. >>
He's had a horrible 1st half in every game. If they win though, I would still give it to him. Just can't see giving a series MVP to a player on a losing team. How valuable was he if his team lost?
<< <i>In fairness to Igoudala, although Lebron still got his points, he had to put up quite a few more shots to get his points. >>
Lebron had to have shot less then 40% for series. AI made him work for every shot.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Why give it to Iguodala and not Stephanie Curry? He was clearly the MVP for GS. Iguodala failed at his mission by letting the player he was guarding to almost average a triple double for the entire series. If it went seven games, LeBron would have had a very legitimate chance at getting MVP even with a loss. Since it only went six games, it has to be Curry. I've never seen a more pure shot in the game of basketball. Guy is insane. >>
I think the point that you're missing is that they didn't have to double team Lebron and therefore they didn't let anyone else hurt them. AI made Lebron work for every single point. Very few easy uncontested hoops. They made Lebron work on both ends of the floor. I thought Steve Kerr's use of AI was brilliant and he rewarded Kerr by hitting big shot after big shot. AI received 7 votes for MVP and Lebron received 4. Curry received zero. They got it right IMO. He was the difference maker.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Do the Cavs have a prayer without Lebron? None, zero, zilch. Do the Warriors have even a slight chance without Curry's performance? Not a chance. Do the Warriors still win without Iguodola? Of course they do.
Exactly how would that series turned around after game 3 without the emergence of Iguodola?
Sure James put up big numbers throughout the series. However, I did hear from one of those statistician's that he shot 36% with AI on him and 43% against all others. If that's true, that counts for something. Plus, the fact that he made James fight and claw for everything he got, he was able to sap much of James' ability to have big 4th quarters.
Plus lets not forget that James numbers were heavily skewed by the fact that Irving and Love were not around to take shots. If it was both teams at full strength, then maybe we are talking about a Cleveland championship but we certainly wouldn't be talking about anything close to the numbers that James put up himself. In the end, he truly was not as effective in this series as he was on the season.
<< <i>
<< <i>Why give it to Iguodala and not Stephanie Curry? He was clearly the MVP for GS. Iguodala failed at his mission by letting the player he was guarding to almost average a triple double for the entire series. If it went seven games, LeBron would have had a very legitimate chance at getting MVP even with a loss. Since it only went six games, it has to be Curry. I've never seen a more pure shot in the game of basketball. Guy is insane. >>
I think the point that you're missing is that they didn't have to double team Lebron and therefore they didn't let anyone else hurt them. AI made Lebron work for every single point. Very few easy uncontested hoops. They made Lebron work on both ends of the floor. I thought Steve Kerr's use of AI was brilliant and he rewarded Kerr by hitting big shot after big shot. AI received 7 votes for MVP and Lebron received 4. Curry received zero. They got it right IMO. He was the difference maker.
mark >>
Both correct!
People tend to forget that basketball is a sport where a player can accumulate stats to the detriment of their team. Not that Lebron was a detriment to his team, but rather that Iguodala's performance shouldn't be measured by Lebron's total stat line, but by the fact that he forced him to take a lot of bad shots resulting in a low FG%, and that he was able to do it without double team, which means Lebron's presence wasn't able to give his teammates any easy shots. That is a good job for a defender to do that to a guy like James. The guy like James will always get his 'stats', but it may not translate well in the team game, and the win column...and that was because of the job of defender.
....and why Larry Bird is still the best ever, because a defender couldn't do that to him, as Bird had too many offensive weapons in his arsenal, and he was unparalleled at getting his teammates the ball at the right time and right spot, and that is why he was so darn good(and better than the more flashy dunker type stars).
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Why give it to Iguodala and not Stephanie Curry? He was clearly the MVP for GS. Iguodala failed at his mission by letting the player he was guarding to almost average a triple double for the entire series. If it went seven games, LeBron would have had a very legitimate chance at getting MVP even with a loss. Since it only went six games, it has to be Curry. I've never seen a more pure shot in the game of basketball. Guy is insane. >>
I think the point that you're missing is that they didn't have to double team Lebron and therefore they didn't let anyone else hurt them. AI made Lebron work for every single point. Very few easy uncontested hoops. They made Lebron work on both ends of the floor. I thought Steve Kerr's use of AI was brilliant and he rewarded Kerr by hitting big shot after big shot. AI received 7 votes for MVP and Lebron received 4. Curry received zero. They got it right IMO. He was the difference maker.
mark >>
Both correct!
People tend to forget that basketball is a sport where a player can accumulate stats to the detriment of their team. Not that Lebron was a detriment to his team, but rather that Iguodala's performance shouldn't be measured by Lebron's total stat line, but by the fact that he forced him to take a lot of bad shots resulting in a low FG%, and that he was able to do it without double team, which means Lebron's presence wasn't able to give his teammates any easy shots. That is a good job for a defender to do that to a guy like James. The guy like James will always get his 'stats', but it may not translate well in the team game, and the win column...and that was because of the job of defender.
....and why Larry Bird is still the best ever, because a defender couldn't do that to him, as Bird had too many offensive weapons in his arsenal, and he was unparalleled at getting his teammates the ball at the right time and right spot, and that is why he was so darn good(and better than the more flashy dunker type stars). >>
Bird wouldn't have laid down like LeBron did last night either.
That was really weird towards the end of that game. Obviously by his shots, he had nothing left. But, on your home court, "The best in the world" could have at least disguised the quit better.
Actually, the whole Cleveland team seemed to quit at about the 3 minute mark and then after a few shots by JR., they completely came back to life with 1 minute left.
If you take LeBron's numbers at face value and immediately jump to the conclusion that Iguodala couldn't possibly be deemed worthy of the MVP award, then either you have emotional ties to the Cavs and/or you're just being flat-out lazy with your "analysis." Here's a very telling stat: When Andre Iguodala was on the floor, the Warriors outscored the Cavs by 62 points in the series. The next best was Stephen Curry at plus-52. Without AI on the floor, the Warriors were outscored by 19.
One might ask, "So what, didn't LeBron average almost 36 points per regardless?" When you allow yourself to dig a little deeper, it's very simple: Andre Iguodala turned it into the worst awesome performance in the history of the NBA Finals. LeBron put up obscene numbers throughout the series, no question about it, but what you're not taking into consideration is that it took an obscene number of shots to get said numbers. With AI draped on him, he shot less than 40% for the series. 73-for-196, or 39.8%, to be exact. During the regular season, LBJ shot exactly nine percentage points higher than that, or 48.8%. Had he shot 48.8% in the Finals on 196 shots, he would have put the basketball in the hole almost 23 more times over the course of six Finals games. With as hotly contested as many of these games were, are you trying to tell me that 23 more made shots wouldn't have mattered? Hell yes it would have, and therein lies the reason why Andre Iguodala was named the most valuable player. He altered the outcome of the series with his play, which also consisted of substantial contributions on the other end of the floor. He made a number of huge shots when GSW needed them most.
Remember, the Warriors started out the Finals by putting Harrison Barnes on King James. It quickly became evident that an adjustment needed to be made, otherwise things were not going to end well for them. That adjustment came in the form of a wily 11-year vet who knows how to play defense. No, Andre Iguodala didn't prevent LeBron from producing statistics that look extremely sexy to the naked eye. He was never going to do that, nor was he expected to. But what he did do is a) aid in emptying his tank by Game 6, and b) force an increased number of missed shots to where the Warriors could rebound the ball, take it the other way and offset LeBron's offensive productivity.
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Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
It is almost as if he can get to a point where mentally he concedes and checks out (even though there is time left on the clock to rally and tie the game up or take a lead).
In his first finals in 2007 against the Spurs I remember at the end of game 4 LeBron just checked out. He stood around with a look on his face that conveyed that he had tossed in the towel. Same thing was on display a little bit last night with LeBron (and his teammates) acting as if the game was lost with about 3 minutes to go. J.R. Smith hits some three point shots and the lead dropped to 4 points, giving the Cavs a chance to tie or go ahead. Instead of turning on the afterburners LeBron checked out. He walked over to Curry to congratulate him and then walked off of the court while there was still time on the clock.
By the way, the post by Galaxy27 explains very well why AI was indeed the "Most Valuable" Player. He did indeed deserve the award given his contributions to the Warriors on both ends of he floor.
Well that was sure a well thought out comeback
--- LeBron didn't win because he played for the losing team.
--- Curry didn't win because he didn't deserve to based on his overall play. coming alive in the fourth quarter of a few games while you're essentially gone the rest of the time should win it.
that sort of left the Voters in a tough spot and they made the next best selection. Igoudala had a career game when it mattered most in game three and he played consistent throughout the series, but I think the clincher was this -- what would LeBron have done if Igoudala hadn't been guarding him?? that may not make sense but I think it counts for something and was the logical choice in the end. he at least slowed down a freight train and was still able to help on the offensive side of things.
for a nice comparison, the Cavs with Dellavadova and others helping slowed down Curry but weren't able to better contribute on offense.
Easy-Peasey, Japanesey!!!
I'm not saying LeBron deserved the MVP... but certainly not Iguodala.
timpatg - What can I say.......you know nothing about basketball comes to mind. Geeze!!
<< <i>
timpatg - What can I say.......you know nothing about basketball comes to mind. Geeze!! >>
From reading your posts about "your" Cowboys, you know nothing about football and very little about "your" Cowboys.
You really think his performance was that amazing after truly analyzing what went on and why it went on?
The guy shot under 40% for the series. That is a huge drop off from the regular season. Do you understand that Irving and Love not playing was actually a huge benefit for him to have outrageous stats?
Go look at Scottie Pippen's numbers in the 93/94 season and marvel at how much better he became in his 6th season. Or you can simply question why his numbers were so much better than his career averages and you might remember that someone missing from that team that may have helped spike Scottie's numbers.
I dont think anyone here is questioning that James did everything possible for his team to win. And he had incredible numbers for the series. But for 1 of their wins at least, Delladova was almost as valuable, between the points he scored, and holding someone, who is already being considered one of the greatest shooters in NBA history, to an absolutely anemic night.
Fan and still am, but we need to stop the MJ comparisons. All of the great players in any team sport bring the level
Of their teams players up. Basketball is a team game and MJ, Magic, Larry Bird and all the way back to Russell, all that
Mattered to these greats was that the team WON. They did not care about personal stats. When Jeff Van (offense) Gundy
Started pointing out that James was out of position on defense, he was not referring to James Jones. The Cavs had to keep
The games around 90 points to win and to do this you have to take a break on offense. You never,ever, ever take the play
Off on the defensive end. He may be the only one on the Cavs team that could get a scholarship offer from Coach Cal at Kentucky, but
The others on his team played with a lot of grit and toughness. Lebron is without question the greatest athletic talent to play in the NBA, but he dropped out of my top 5 of the all time greats
<< <i>I've been dying to reply to this thread all day long, but work has been grossly interfering with my CU time. I knew full well that skin wouldn't allow some of these myopic comments to slide.
If you take LeBron's numbers at face value and immediately jump to the conclusion that Iguodala couldn't possibly be deemed worthy of the MVP award, then either you have emotional ties to the Cavs and/or you're just being flat-out lazy with your "analysis." Here's a very telling stat: When Andre Iguodala was on the floor, the Warriors outscored the Cavs by 62 points in the series. The next best was Stephen Curry at plus-52. Without AI on the floor, the Warriors were outscored by 19.
One might ask, "So what, didn't LeBron average almost 36 points per regardless?" When you allow yourself to dig a little deeper, it's very simple: Andre Iguodala turned it into the worst awesome performance in the history of the NBA Finals. LeBron put up obscene numbers throughout the series, no question about it, but what you're not taking into consideration is that it took an obscene number of shots to get said numbers. With AI draped on him, he shot less than 40% for the series. 73-for-196, or 39.8%, to be exact. During the regular season, LBJ shot exactly nine percentage points higher than that, or 48.8%. Had he shot 48.8% in the Finals on 196 shots, he would have put the basketball in the hole almost 23 more times over the course of six Finals games. With as hotly contested as many of these games were, are you trying to tell me that 23 more made shots wouldn't have mattered? Hell yes it would have, and therein lies the reason why Andre Iguodala was named the most valuable player. He altered the outcome of the series with his play, which also consisted of substantial contributions on the other end of the floor. He made a number of huge shots when GSW needed them most.
Remember, the Warriors started out the Finals by putting Harrison Barnes on King James. It quickly became evident that an adjustment needed to be made, otherwise things were not going to end well for them. That adjustment came in the form of a wily 11-year vet who knows how to play defense. No, Andre Iguodala didn't prevent LeBron from producing statistics that look extremely sexy to the naked eye. He was never going to do that, nor was he expected to. But what he did do is a) aid in emptying his tank by Game 6, and b) force an increased number of missed shots to where the Warriors could rebound the ball, take it the other way and offset LeBron's offensive productivity. >>
Thumbs up...very nice post!
<< <i>
<< <i>I've been dying to reply to this thread all day long, but work has been grossly interfering with my CU time. I knew full well that skin wouldn't allow some of these myopic comments to slide.
If you take LeBron's numbers at face value and immediately jump to the conclusion that Iguodala couldn't possibly be deemed worthy of the MVP award, then either you have emotional ties to the Cavs and/or you're just being flat-out lazy with your "analysis." Here's a very telling stat: When Andre Iguodala was on the floor, the Warriors outscored the Cavs by 62 points in the series. The next best was Stephen Curry at plus-52. Without AI on the floor, the Warriors were outscored by 19.
One might ask, "So what, didn't LeBron average almost 36 points per regardless?" When you allow yourself to dig a little deeper, it's very simple: Andre Iguodala turned it into the worst awesome performance in the history of the NBA Finals. LeBron put up obscene numbers throughout the series, no question about it, but what you're not taking into consideration is that it took an obscene number of shots to get said numbers. With AI draped on him, he shot less than 40% for the series. 73-for-196, or 39.8%, to be exact. During the regular season, LBJ shot exactly nine percentage points higher than that, or 48.8%. Had he shot 48.8% in the Finals on 196 shots, he would have put the basketball in the hole almost 23 more times over the course of six Finals games. With as hotly contested as many of these games were, are you trying to tell me that 23 more made shots wouldn't have mattered? Hell yes it would have, and therein lies the reason why Andre Iguodala was named the most valuable player. He altered the outcome of the series with his play, which also consisted of substantial contributions on the other end of the floor. He made a number of huge shots when GSW needed them most.
Remember, the Warriors started out the Finals by putting Harrison Barnes on King James. It quickly became evident that an adjustment needed to be made, otherwise things were not going to end well for them. That adjustment came in the form of a wily 11-year vet who knows how to play defense. No, Andre Iguodala didn't prevent LeBron from producing statistics that look extremely sexy to the naked eye. He was never going to do that, nor was he expected to. But what he did do is a) aid in emptying his tank by Game 6, and b) force an increased number of missed shots to where the Warriors could rebound the ball, take it the other way and offset LeBron's offensive productivity. >>
Thumbs up...very nice post! >>
^^^^^^^
This
Lebron missed 6 of every 10 shots he chucked up. He made some great circus shots which are easy to remember. However, the volume of shots he missed can not be demised. Every shot seemed like it was contested. Which indeed it was
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Right - because I disagree with some here about ROMO in previous years - I don't know Football or Cowboy's.
Real good comeback!
Jeffcbay - In all honesty, why do you call James' performance possibly the greatest in Final's history?
Not everyone is a James hater just for reading between the lines on his big numbers.
Would have been 8 out of 8 if he hadn't decided to play baseball for those 2 years in the middle!
I'm in complete agreement with Dimeman (painful just to admit that
With respect to Lebron's otherworldly numbers, go back once again and watch some tape of the few years that it too Jordan to finally overthrow the Pistons and take over the NBA. Lebron gets bumped by guys 50 lbs smaller and he's looking for the nearest ref to whine to. Jordan was clubbed to the ground unmercifully by Laimbeer, Mahorn, Rodman etc and fouls weren't even being called.
Lebron plays in a much gentler time than guys like Jordan, Magic, Bird, Erving. Its no wonder he was able to light it up at a 39.9% clip during the Finals.