Engelhard Silver Bars, New Production out of Australia
LukeMarshall
Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭✭✭
Just found these online, new Production bars stamped Engelhard Australia.
And for those who are wondering just who is selling these new production silver ingots, its an Ebay user by the name of
Silverstackers
A quote from one of the auctions
s
EXCLUSIVE USA SELLER!
Engelhard Australia Pty Ltd is proud to announce the re-introduction of Engelhard Australia branded silver bullion bars for the first time in decades. These new-manufacture 5oz cast silver bars are attractively finished with the Engelhard Australia logo on the front, and the fineness, metal, weight, and a unique serial number on the rear. Each bar is shipped in a protective cardboard box.
These bars are all low serial numbers with triple digits - the serial number format of the bars we have from this historic first-run batch is B00XXX. We will endeavor to supply consecutive serial numbers if you purchase more than one bar.
Not available from any US retail bullion dealer - these bars are being distributed exclusively within Australia, we are the only seller on or off eBay with stock on hand in the United States! (We are not Engelhard Australia, we are a reseller).
...Removed Advertising...
Just to clarify some unsolicited feedback received on our earlier auctions, and to correct a number of erroneous rumours flying around Internet forums - there has been some earnest dialogue with the operator of the All Engelhard website regarding the collector community's initial reception to the release of these bars which was rather sudden with no advance notice.
In a nutshell... these bars are new bars made in 2015, with their own unique proportions and a modernised logo, unlike any previous historical Engelhard Australia bar. They are made for Engelhard Australia Pty Ltd by a long established LBMA member refiner (whom cannot be disclosed for commercial reasons), but there a couple of experienced individuals working on the production line at this refinery making these new bars that personally worked on the production of Engelhard bars in the 1980s. Old time Engelhard guys making new Engelhard Australia bars. They are NOT a commissioned product by a bullion dealer under any sort of "naming rights" deal, nor are they "fakes" or "handcast garage knockoffs". Production runs will be dictated by market demand, not artificially limited to create scarcity. The company manufacturing these bars dates back to 1920, and it is a matter of public record that the current corporate entity was reformed in the 1980s, and that is the company today. Engelhard Australia was in commercial relationships with Engelhard Industries, and the Engelhard Australia company today still has these original papers in their archive amongst others. It's hoped that with the cooperation of the collector community that access to this archive will be made available for research and informational purposes.
So what does the collector community think about this development?
Would it affect the so called "legacy ingots" if production started on runs of odd sized bars that have high numerical and collector value?
Cheers
(Edit to include quote on the Engelhard Australia Company History)
And for those who are wondering just who is selling these new production silver ingots, its an Ebay user by the name of
Silverstackers
A quote from one of the auctions
s
EXCLUSIVE USA SELLER!
Engelhard Australia Pty Ltd is proud to announce the re-introduction of Engelhard Australia branded silver bullion bars for the first time in decades. These new-manufacture 5oz cast silver bars are attractively finished with the Engelhard Australia logo on the front, and the fineness, metal, weight, and a unique serial number on the rear. Each bar is shipped in a protective cardboard box.
These bars are all low serial numbers with triple digits - the serial number format of the bars we have from this historic first-run batch is B00XXX. We will endeavor to supply consecutive serial numbers if you purchase more than one bar.
Not available from any US retail bullion dealer - these bars are being distributed exclusively within Australia, we are the only seller on or off eBay with stock on hand in the United States! (We are not Engelhard Australia, we are a reseller).
...Removed Advertising...
Just to clarify some unsolicited feedback received on our earlier auctions, and to correct a number of erroneous rumours flying around Internet forums - there has been some earnest dialogue with the operator of the All Engelhard website regarding the collector community's initial reception to the release of these bars which was rather sudden with no advance notice.
In a nutshell... these bars are new bars made in 2015, with their own unique proportions and a modernised logo, unlike any previous historical Engelhard Australia bar. They are made for Engelhard Australia Pty Ltd by a long established LBMA member refiner (whom cannot be disclosed for commercial reasons), but there a couple of experienced individuals working on the production line at this refinery making these new bars that personally worked on the production of Engelhard bars in the 1980s. Old time Engelhard guys making new Engelhard Australia bars. They are NOT a commissioned product by a bullion dealer under any sort of "naming rights" deal, nor are they "fakes" or "handcast garage knockoffs". Production runs will be dictated by market demand, not artificially limited to create scarcity. The company manufacturing these bars dates back to 1920, and it is a matter of public record that the current corporate entity was reformed in the 1980s, and that is the company today. Engelhard Australia was in commercial relationships with Engelhard Industries, and the Engelhard Australia company today still has these original papers in their archive amongst others. It's hoped that with the cooperation of the collector community that access to this archive will be made available for research and informational purposes.
So what does the collector community think about this development?
Would it affect the so called "legacy ingots" if production started on runs of odd sized bars that have high numerical and collector value?
Cheers
(Edit to include quote on the Engelhard Australia Company History)
It's all about what the people want...
0
Comments
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It has hurt them. For the record, I am totally against this. We'll see how it plays out and if the same result occurs as it has with OLDER JM bars that were once selling at Spot X $20 that now sell close to Spot.
<< <i>I'm not sure if that has hurt the value of the older J-M bars or not.
It has hurt them. For the record, I am totally against this. We'll see how it plays out and if the same result occurs as it has with OLDER JM bars that were once selling at Spot X $20 that now sell close to Spot. >>
Unlike the new J-M bars, these new Engelhard bars are sufficiently different from the originals that I doubt that they will hurt the value of the original vintage bars. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if new bullion buyers who buy these bars like them so much that they decide to seek out some of the older vintage bars.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
They aren't my cup of tea, but if the lineage is there and the intent is to create modern bars with a nod to the classics, rather than to recreate exact (or near exact) copies of the originals, it's all good.
That's not to say some inexperienced bullion flippers won't get burned if they pay a premium for them thinking they're old. But so long as they're good .999 Ag and the weight is correct, you can't protect the stupid from themselves.
--Severian the Lame
of course. as many as they want.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>there has been some earnest dialogue with the operator of the All Engelhard website regarding the collector community's initial reception >>
BWUAAAHHAAHAAHAA
Does this mean he has kissed the holy Ambassador's ring?
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>right, no one could ever make one that looks anything like that, if the market demanded it
Try to grasp the main point. Engelhard Australia is not producing copies of the old bars nor do they intend to start copying them.
Individual fraudsters at times clumsily attempt to copy the vintage bars. The collecting community can spot them and Allengelhard maintains a registry of the known fakes.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
It's got a nice little Bio on the Company if anyone is interested, and an offering of their current products.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm not sure if that has hurt the value of the older J-M bars or not.
It has hurt them. For the record, I am totally against this. We'll see how it plays out and if the same result occurs as it has with OLDER JM bars that were once selling at Spot X $20 that now sell close to Spot. >>
Unlike the new J-M bars, these new Engelhard bars are sufficiently different from the originals that I doubt that they will hurt the value of the original vintage bars. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if new bullion buyers who buy these bars like them so much that they decide to seek out some of the older vintage bars. >>
I remember seeing Johnson Matthey bars selling at a much higher % over spot before the current production. True, the design is nearly identicle on the smaller 1 & 10 ounce bars, however the new production kilogram bars with thier different updated stampings seem to have driven some premium away from the older, out of production kilos. I believe it has to do with these new production pieces being readily available at a low mark up concurrent to the spot price.
Edit: Link
It's all about what the people want...
<< <i>What are the odds they are not from Australia?
Ahh, this conspiracy has a truthful ring to it...
Taken from a representative for an Australian based PM dealer...
I understand that for now these are made offshore on behalf of the Australian company by an LBMA refiner. Engelhard Australia is Australian owned.
For now.....
It's all about what the people want...
<< <i>Would've thought they could have made the markings on the back a little more eye appealing. A little crude to me, but that's just MHO. >>
Agree with that. They made the top/front look pretty nice. But the back/reverse looks bush league.
--Severian the Lame
<< <i>And "they" continue to "print and debase" and make silver worthless. >>
They're not using paper that is stamped "silver."
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
As others have aid JM was tuned into common bullion -not a bad thing for a plain ol stacker
Loves me some shiny!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm not sure if that has hurt the value of the older J-M bars or not.
It has hurt them. For the record, I am totally against this. We'll see how it plays out and if the same result occurs as it has with OLDER JM bars that were once selling at Spot X $20 that now sell close to Spot. >>
Unlike the new J-M bars, these new Engelhard bars are sufficiently different from the originals that I doubt that they will hurt the value of the original vintage bars. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if new bullion buyers who buy these bars like them so much that they decide to seek out some of the older vintage bars. >>
I agree. I'm new to PM. Bought one of these new bars. Actually my 1st bar over 1oz. Love it. Now I'm learning and going to be buying bigger older pour bars. imo when things are re-released (Sport cards, Action figures) it hurts the originals short term. But long term it brings new collectors (like me) to the market which helps and sometimes increases the value of the originals.
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