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PSA Costing Collectors Money - Thoughts?

I am very frustrated with PSA making the decision to grade specific cards and adding them to the Master Player Collections. Then, once collectors begin either purchasing the cards and having them graded or simply purchasing them already graded, PSA is deciding to "no longer grade the item" and moving them to OPTIONAL status.

I believe once PSA decides to grade a specific card/item and add it to the registry collections, then it should remain (unless it is a blatant mistake of some type). Otherwise, PSA is costing collectors hundreds of dollars (and profiting from the grading/shipping fees) on cards they would not usually pursue. In the effort of attempting to complete the various Player Registry Collections, they are necessary to purchase. . .until they are changed to OPTIONAL.

Four items have been changed to OPTIONAL status in the Don Mattingly Master Collection in the past week alone.

Am I alone in experiencing this frustration?

Thanks for your thoughts.
I only need 18 cards to complete the Don Mattingly Master collection. Help would be great!

Comments

  • firedawg45firedawg45 Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭
    I totally agree with you Chris. Happened a few times on my rose master set. A card a paid $1200 for they decided to remove it. Ouch
    # 2 Pete Rose Master Set , also
    collecting 1977 topps baseball in psa 9 and psa 10
  • I was not aware of this happening, in fact, once when I requested a card be changed in a rookie set to a card that was a truer rookie card, I was told they would not make the change because other people have added that first card & it would not be fair to them, which I agree. So by the answer they once gave me I am surprised that they would remove a card like that. I certainly agree with you though, registry sets are tough enough with out pulling cards out that you have already purchased. Also, by pulling the card out it is quite possible there would not be as much demand on the card lowering the resell value.
  • csakerscsakers Posts: 239
    Corey,

    I am sorry to hear you spent that much on a card to have it changed. Luckily, the most I have "lost" on a card in this situation has only been a couple hundred. All together, it has been around $500.00 with the newest ones PSA has changed to OPTIONAL.
    I only need 18 cards to complete the Don Mattingly Master collection. Help would be great!
  • csakerscsakers Posts: 239
    Ironically, PSA now states it is "not fair" to other collectors to continue including the items in the registry collections. I agree with the original statement that it is truly NOT FAIR to those that have already added it to their registry collections to have its status changed later.

    I completely agree with your feelings regarding the value of such cards. From my firsthand experiences, the values of the Mattingly cards have gone from $75.00 - $100.00 when included in the registry collection to less than $20.00 once changed to OPTIONAL status. As all things, the value of cards is driven by supply and demand. Once the status is changed to OPTIONAL, the demand for such cards nearly disappears. In a way, PSA has created a monster in that people will pay $100.00 for a card just to be able to work closer to completing the registry collection. Yet, most items that are not included in the registry collections, many collectors are willing to leave alone.

    However, PSA continues to profit from the grading of such items.
    I only need 18 cards to complete the Don Mattingly Master collection. Help would be great!
  • divecchiadivecchia Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No you are not alone...

    I feel your frustration as 6 Ballstreet cards of Nolan Ryan were removed from the Master set this week. From my personal experience in talking with some of the staff at PSA (on the phone and in person at shows) some of this is brought on by our fellow collectors that are RELENTLESS in getting a card that they think no one else has into a Master set by whatever means possible. They keep calling and calling until they get someone from PSA that finally agrees with them to get the card graded and into the set and then when the graders or researchers want more info on the card and they can't find it in the large Beckett or the big SCD it ends up in the optional area. My game plan going forward is to concentrate on the mainstream cards first that I know are listed in either the Beckett or SCD and not buy any high grade or expensive non mainstream cards until I'm closer to completion of the set. This should reduce my frustration and make this fun for me as it should be as it is my hobby, not my job. I'd suggest other collectors do the same if you don't want to get frustrated to the point of giving up on the Registry or even worse giving up on the hobby because it's not fun any more.

    JMHO,
    Donato
    Hobbyist & Collector (not an investor).
    Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set

    Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
  • csakerscsakers Posts: 239
    Donato,

    I agree with sticking to the mainstream cards. However, once you are close to completing a set it is difficult to make this call when there are oddball cards included. Presently, I am 75 cards away from completing the Don Mattingly Master Collection. This may still sound like a lot of cards, but the entire collection currently contains 1,485 items. Quite a few of my missing items are some of these oddball items. As one of my goals is to complete this collection, I am forced to either NOT reach my goal or risk wasting money on oddball cards that will simply be changed to OPTIONAL at some point in the future.

    Further, if collectors are willing to collect, purchase, and have graded these oddball types of cards. Then, I feel PSA should continue grading them. This is especially true with the issues from the various magazines, as collectors know from where these cards originated (it is easy to document these cards even if they do not appear in Beckett or SCD). Just add them to the collections and continue grading them. (I feel the same way about the Broder card sets, the various Pacific issues, and other such brands that are not included in Beckett or SCD, yet collectors continually acknowledge their validity.)

    Now, if it is some type of "made-in-a-person's-basement" issue, that is a different story.
    I only need 18 cards to complete the Don Mattingly Master collection. Help would be great!
  • skrezyna23skrezyna23 Posts: 908 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I am very frustrated with PSA making the decision to grade specific cards and adding them to the Master Player Collections. Then, once collectors begin either purchasing the cards and having them graded or simply purchasing them already graded, PSA is deciding to "no longer grade the item" and moving them to OPTIONAL status.

    I believe once PSA decides to grade a specific card/item and add it to the registry collections, then it should remain (unless it is a blatant mistake of some type). Otherwise, PSA is costing collectors hundreds of dollars (and profiting from the grading/shipping fees) on cards they would not usually pursue. In the effort of attempting to complete the various Player Registry Collections, they are necessary to purchase. . .until they are changed to OPTIONAL.

    Four items have been changed to OPTIONAL status in the Don Mattingly Master Collection in the past week alone.

    Am I alone in experiencing this frustration?

    Thanks for your thoughts. >>



    +1

    I'm still waiting to hear back on an explanation as to why they will not grade the (1) Ballstreets and another on the (2) Investor Journals.
  • jay0791jay0791 Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭✭
    Glad I just do "basic" player sets
    Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets
    1948-76 Topps FB Sets
    FB & BB HOF Player sets
    1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
  • skrezyna23skrezyna23 Posts: 908 ✭✭✭
    I heard back from the research department and unfortunately we do not grade Investor Journal cards anymore. Unfortunately no, we will not place them in authentic holders either.
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I had similar problem with 1967 Punchouts. There are three distinct totally different Killebrew cards. PSA denied me, then I got SCD to verify they were in fact variations (different players in the lineups) PSA then added them to the Master set, and now they have been removed.

    Spent about $2,000.00 on the two cards no longer listed.

    Sellers are also hurt when cards they buy and grade are no longer in Master sets.

    With all the "variations" included that are simply printing defects, why wouldn't cards that are OBVIOUSLY different be included. Makes no sense to me.

    The good news for me is I would have wanted the cards anyway, but getting them for less money would have been nice.
    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • csakerscsakers Posts: 239
    Joe,

    I completely agree this is a HUGE problem. Not only are collectors spending money on items "needed" to complete the Registry Collections, but when they are made OPTIONAL, the value decreases dramatically.

    Collectors are being hit THREE times. Money is LOST to PSA for the grading/shipping charges. Money is lost to purchase what turns out to be unnecessary items. Money is lost when attempting to resell the now OPTIONAL items at around 30% of the purchase price - if you are lucky to even get that much.

    The worst part is: PSA does not appear to care, as they are comfortably making their profits.

    Again, what is the harm in leaving it up to the actual collectors (not simply one or two, but the majority making the decisions) as to what is graded and "allowed" to be included in the Registry Collections? The whole point is supposed to be for the collectors, right?
    I only need 18 cards to complete the Don Mattingly Master collection. Help would be great!
  • skrezyna23skrezyna23 Posts: 908 ✭✭✭
    Just got this reply today regarding 1991 Ballstreet:

    I have received word from our Research Department and was informed that recently we have decided to no longer grade this set due to finding out the sets are considered unauthorized.
  • skrezyna23skrezyna23 Posts: 908 ✭✭✭
    Personally, I have many items I would like to get slabbed that are unauthorized and would gladly pay PSA to slab for me and label "unauthorized." I don't like having these 800 cards encapsulated (with 650 more to go) and then seeing all these other cards in semi-rigids only to remain there, never getting to see the inside of a slab.

    They really should just let the top collectors of a player decide/vote on what should be in the Registry.
  • divecchiadivecchia Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Just got this reply today regarding 1991 Ballstreet:

    I have received word from our Research Department and was informed that recently we have decided to no longer grade this set due to finding out the sets are considered unauthorized. >>



    This is good to know. Thanks very much for sharing that info.

    Donato
    Hobbyist & Collector (not an investor).
    Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set

    Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What bothered me about my example, was PSA said the Punchouts were not cataloged, they would abide by a third party's decision. I then contacted SCD, who stated that the three cards were definitely variations, and contacted PSA informing them of their decision. PSA then let me add them to the Master set, but later said that only one would be allowed, the others no longer qualify!?
    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • skrezyna23skrezyna23 Posts: 908 ✭✭✭
    1990 SCD cards are allowed but 1989 are not. I'm wondering if they weren't "authorized" in '89. Did you ever ask about that, Chris?

    I just sent an email asking why.
  • csakerscsakers Posts: 239
    Dan,

    PSA will most-likely respond with one two possible answers:

    1. Remove the 1990 SCD cards from the Registry collections and no longer grade them.

    2. State that you must be mistaken.


    I fully agree with your comment about having the top collectors make decisions pertaining to which cards to include and not include in the Registry collections.
    I only need 18 cards to complete the Don Mattingly Master collection. Help would be great!
  • csakerscsakers Posts: 239
    Joe,

    Did PSA ever offer an explanation as to why the other two versions no longer qualified for inclusion?
    I only need 18 cards to complete the Don Mattingly Master collection. Help would be great!
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I questioned them when they were removed and got this as a reply;

    "We were notified that PSA is no longer recognizing the varieties and we confirmed it with PSA Operations."

    image

    image

    image

    OBVIOUSLY these cards are all different. Not simply printing defects but completely different cards. SCD recognizes them as such.

    PSA calls the shots, I am just curious as to why. Never liked "because I said so" as much of an reason.
    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • csakerscsakers Posts: 239
    Joe,

    First, your three cards are wonderful! Thanks for sharing.

    Second, I absolutely HATE the reasoning from PSA that they "heard from PSA Operations" that they such and such. This is NOT a reason. This is simply stating they were told that something was no longer being graded or was now being graded. PSA seems to never actually reveal the reasoning behind decisions made. Additionally, for being the self-proclaimed LEADER in sports authentication, they CANNOT ever admit to making mistakes. Your case is one of many in which mistakes have been made and PSA will not recognize their error and offer to make corrections (just look at how many ERROR cards are graded within the 1991 Topps Desert Shield set - although the set was produced AFTER the error cards had been corrected). Truly, a world LEADER should strive for being just that and to do so, mistakes must be acknowledged and corrected. I believe PRIDE stands in the way.

    Do not get me wrong, I appreciate PSA and the service they provide. I will be honest in saying without the PSA Registry Collections, I most-likely would not have much interest in graded cards. Thus, having saved many TENS of THOUSANDS of dollars over the years. This is why it bothers me so very much when PSA makes random decisions that cost me money.
    I only need 18 cards to complete the Don Mattingly Master collection. Help would be great!
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the kind words!

    My bottom line is I KNOW these are three different cards and am happy to have all three in my collection. It would be nice if PSA agreed with me, but that is not the case. Not so sure the sellers out there are too happy.

    Joe
    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • skrezyna23skrezyna23 Posts: 908 ✭✭✭
    Joe,

    What were the variations of the Killebrew that weren't graded?
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The three cards pictured are the three variations.

    PSA originally refused to recognize the variations, then changed their minds and let me add all three of them to the Killebrew Master set, then changed their minds and will allow only one of the three to be added. The collector may choose any one of the variations, obviously I added the "7".
    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • csakerscsakers Posts: 239
    Joe,

    What rationale did PSA offer as to why they reversed their decision to include all three variations? Obviously, all three variations EXIST.
    I only need 18 cards to complete the Don Mattingly Master collection. Help would be great!
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,760 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Joe,

    What rationale did PSA offer as to why they reversed their decision to include all three variations? Obviously, all three variations EXIST. >>




    "We were notified that PSA is no longer recognizing the varieties and we confirmed it with PSA Operations."

    In other words "because we say so"

    Life is not always fair.
    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • skrezyna23skrezyna23 Posts: 908 ✭✭✭


    << <i>1990 SCD cards are allowed but 1989 are not. I'm wondering if they weren't "authorized" in '89. Did you ever ask about that, Chris?

    I just sent an email asking why. >>




    Hello,

    I know you don't grade these cards for 1989 but you will
    grade 1990 and later. Why?

    "After reviewing our population report, it appears
    as if we have graded and will still grade the 1990
    SCD Baseball Pocket Hand-Cut Price Guides."

    I think I made my request very clear but again no answer to my question.
  • csakerscsakers Posts: 239
    Dan,

    I know it is frustrating, but still do not understand why it is so difficult for PSA to READ and ANSWER the question(s) being asked. You CLEARLY asked about the 1989 cards and the response is all about the 1990 cards. Do we truly expect too much from the world's leading experts? In their defense, I do not believe they have ever claimed to be the world's best readers. However, things like this make you wonder how well their "graders" truly know what they are doing.
    I only need 18 cards to complete the Don Mattingly Master collection. Help would be great!
  • skrezyna23skrezyna23 Posts: 908 ✭✭✭

    I really am at a loss. I have no idea why they can't give an explanation as to why they won't grade a specific card. If I ran a business, and I had to make these determinations, I'd have a spreadsheet listing why I wont grade for EVERY SINGLE card. I had to be sent around to several different people to get an answer about the Investor Journals not being authentic. Every other inquiry has not been answered. The last thing that should be crossing my mind even before sending an email to CS? Assuming I won't get an answer to my inquiry.
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Try contacting Gayle Kean, she is very helpful, even if you don't get what you want, she will at least respond.
    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • DanBessetteDanBessette Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭
    Gayle is terrific. So is Cosetta who helps run the set registry.
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,760 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Gayle is terrific. So is Cosetta who helps run the set registry. >>



    Absolutely correct about Cosetta as well!
    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • do what I did. drop the registry. it was liberating. now my collecting is "free" and more fun.
  • jackstrawjackstraw Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭
    I have always wondered why this issue was dropped?

    image
    Collector Focus

    ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
  • I was once told by PSA they would not grade items that "needed to be opened," which is why they would not grade these issues or the Collect-A-Books items. This never made sense to me, as they are only grading the card and not what is inside. I do not think this would ever cause confusion among collectors and do wish they would return to grading items such as these.
    I only need 18 cards to complete the Don Mattingly Master collection. Help would be great!
  • skrezyna23skrezyna23 Posts: 908 ✭✭✭
    That would include:

    1993 Kraft Singles
    1993 Kraft Singles Superstars
    1994 Kraft Pop-Ups
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