A Quick Question About 1963 FS-401 Bugs Bunny Franklin 50C: Specialist Needed!

BustHalfBrian

If the below die clash is present, does that mean it's the variety? Or is this clash found on non-Bugs Bunny coins as well?

BustHalfBrian

I know it's a pretty specific question, so if anyone could even point me in the direction of an a expert to contact...

Kyle

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Bueller's at the Pogue auction.

coinsarefun

Need to see the rest as.......no teeth no bugs.
The rest of the die clash may have been polished off.

BustHalfBrian

<< <i>Need to see the rest as.......no teeth no bugs.
The rest of the die clash may have been polished off. >>



There are some dates assigned FS-401 that have no apparent teeth but rather exhibit a subtle die clash on the lip and/or under the nose. 1963 is one of those dates. I'm not sure how it's decided whether to call the variety FS-401 (Bug Bunny) or FS-402 (Obv. Die Clash).

coinsarefun

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There are some dates assigned FS-401 that have no apparent teeth but rather exhibit a subtle die clash on the lip and/or under the nose. 1963 is one of those dates. I'm not sure how it's decided whether to call the variety FS-401 (Bug Bunny) or FS-402 (Obv. Die Clash). >>





Its a crap shoot with them. I have submitted some and the ones I thought had no change got the variety.
Others that I knew was a dead ringer did not.

Besides the teeth(which can be very small) the clash on the reverse like you show usually has a slight bump impression
under the left wing .......I hope this makes sense to you.

I will try to look for my images.

BustHalfBrian

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There are some dates assigned FS-401 that have no apparent teeth but rather exhibit a subtle die clash on the lip and/or under the nose. 1963 is one of those dates. I'm not sure how it's decided whether to call the variety FS-401 (Bug Bunny) or FS-402 (Obv. Die Clash). >>





Its a crap shoot with them. I have submitted some and the ones I thought had no change got the variety.
Others that I knew was a dead ringer did not.

Besides the teeth(which can be very small) the clash on the reverse like you show usually has a slight bump impression
under the left wing .......I hope this makes sense to you.

I will try to look for my images. >>



I'm not sure I know the 'impression' you're talking about. Like a die gouge?

Today I found almost a full roll of 1963 halves with these die clashes above the bell. At least 4 of the halves definitely have 'teeth' but the rest I'm not so sure. Franklinlover.com lists the die clash above the bell as a 'die marker' for FS-401 but I'm not clear on if that means the die clash is found only on the FS-401.

numisma

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Bueller's at the Pogue auction. >>



Sorry if you think I am hijacking your thread, but the Bueller reference got me thinking about Ferris Bueller's Day Off and numismatics. Trivia question: who here knows which leading actor (or actress) in that movie is a serious numismatist?

LanceNewmanOCC

<< <i>If the below die clash is present, does that mean it's the variety? Or is this clash found on non-Bugs Bunny coins as well?

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caf nailed it. crap-shoot.

there are many instances where dies were switched out and therefore one side may have the pups of an acceptable or unacceptable (by pcgs standards) variety/clash and one may not. i've seen more die swapping with these than any other instance of numismatics thus far, including vams. strictly my observations.

by swap, i mean old for new not old for old creating re-marriages.

i concur with caf and with the frank clashes, it is best to see the whole coin or at least the 2 prime areas.

im no "expert" with these but have worked with many big-boys in this niche and have had tons of different dies of them.

obviously it is possible that polishing/use removed/reduced these rev markers and the 401/402 exists w/o them and visa-versa; the rev die has them but with a diff obv non-clashed die or a polished-out one as caf cited.



<< <i>If the below die clash is present, does that mean it's the variety? Or is this clash found on non-Bugs Bunny coins as well? >>



it would be best to search out some known 401/402 and verify since we have not confirmed one way or the other if you get antsy and way to do some research.
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C0INB0Y

AHFreak

I was recently talking to a guy ATS who is a self proclaimed bugs bunny expert, I would imagine he could answer this question for you. It was at NGC's US Coin forum. His user name is "coinman1794". You could sent him PM over there.

georgiacop50

Brett's coin happened to show those weird lines above the bell, but they are not a "marker".

AHFreak

I just looked at the images of the clash marks, and I am curious... What makes those impressions? I cannot see anything on Franklins obverse that would create anything like those markings.... Can anyone explain that?

lkeigwin

@AHFreak, the teeth-like clash marks are from the bottom of eagle's left wing.

I crossed this ANACS Bugs Bunny FBL and PCGS called it FS-402, dropped the FBL and gave it a plus. I found this handy guide which validated the die 3, FS-402 designation:

franklinlover.yolasite.com/bugs-bunny.php#1954%2050c%20BB3

@BustHalfBrian's coin is called a PDDO-008...

franklinlover.yolasite.com/doubled-dies-1963.php#1963%20PDDO-008

...and has die stage B clash marks making it a Bugs Bunny type. But as always the presence of the teeth clash is the most important factor.

Caveat: I'm no Franklin expert. I just looked around a little to figure out what I really had.
Lance.

georgiacop50

They called that a 402?? They are so inconsistent (and so wrong). That should be 401.

lkeigwin

@georgiacop50...It has the die marks cited for the 402 in the linked reference, but not any listed for the 401. See below.

I'm sure you know a lot more than I do about this series. Tell me why it should be the 401?
Lance.