New registry point system penalizes DMPL vs PL

Goldminers

I have a complete set of DMPL ATB silver coins all graded MS69, but now other sets get higher ratings that have PL coins, I assume because there were less of them graded so their pop is lower. This does not make any sense to me at all. Clearly the DMPL's are better coins and should not be penalized.

Also in addition now several of my complete PR70 and MS70 First Strike sets are getting lower rating points because some lower pop non-first strike coins get higher ratings or a coin in an obscure label gets more credit like a baseball signature because the pop is lower. This also does not make sense to me as a PR70 coin is as good as it gets and if it is in a FS holder, or not, it should not make any difference to the rating. Certainly most people pay more for FS coins (whether it makes sense or not is another matter), but a FS coins should not have a LOWER set rating than a non-FS coin in the same grade.

I sure hope that PCGS will reconsider the decision that makes FS coins and DMPL coins worse than PL and non-FS coins of the SAME grade. The labels also should have no additional points. A MS70 coin is just as good whether it is an FS flag label, or a Mercanti signed label, or if a ballplayer signed it. I am collecting coins, not low pop labels.

Please fix this.

OperationButter

Im assuming that all of your collections are under Goldminer's Collection or some variation. If so, you have some amazing coins and awesome collections!

In response, I agree with your post. Collect the coin, not the label. The whole first strike thing is all marketing. Unfortunately it brings a premium in the secondary markets...

Signatures shouldnt mean anything and PL is def not superior to DMPL. I have to believe that the PL vs DMPL is an honest mistake. Sadly I think they meant the others.

Keep up the killer sets! (would love to see some pics with your sets )

wondercoin

Goldminers: The MS70DMPL Kennedy Half Dollars (Enhanced) 2014-S get NO additional weight as compared to a 2014-S Enhanced without even PL. Set registry told me that when there are (3) choices of coins for a slot they all get equal weight (or something like that)? Is the treatment of the 2014-S Kennedy PCGS-MS70DMPL in the registry similar to the ATB coins?

Wondercoin

wondercoin

P.S.

Don't Morgan Dollars with PL and DMPL get added weights in the registry come to think of it?

Wondercoin

sonoranmonsoon

<< <i>P.S.

Don't Morgan Dollars with PL and DMPL get added weights in the registry come to think of it?

Wondercoin >>



The last I checked PL and DMPL received no extra weight in a regular morgan set. They may receive a bonus only in sets that are designated as PL or DMPL sets. At least that was the way it used to be. It has been a while since I looked at those.

Goldminers

In the ATB set I copied my coin choices below. When I asked it to find the best coins it selected the MS69 PL and gave it a 70 rating, notice that I have a MS69 DMPL that can replace it and it is only a 69 rating. So this is clearly not right. If I put in my complete DMPL set o0f MS69 I drop to #6 in the registry. Yet that should be a good as that set gets, unless you are the lucky person to have the ONLY MS70 Great Sand Dunes out there.

2010 Grand Canyon NP

Your current item:

Cert # PCGS Number Grade Rating

Description

19326602 506572 MS69PL 70.00

Select the Coin you wish to place in this slot.



Cert # PCGS Number Grade Rating

Description

19502284 506575 MS69DM 69.00
20520657 506572 MS67PL 67.00
20354789 506572 MS66PL 66.00
19920029 506574 MS64PL 64.00
20520650 505103 MS62 62.00


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Goldminers

Operationbutter, Thanks for the kind words. Yes I should do a few more pictures for sure.

Cheers

Goldminers

Wondercoins,

Actually almost all of the ATB MS69 DMPL's should have a rating of 70, now as they are all top pops except one. Yet most all of mine still show 69 ratings. I think there is a programming glitch for sure.

The worst example I found so far is in the first spouse set where I have all 70's. There is nothing available higher, and so all are top pops and it should rate a 71 in the new rules. Yet every one of my first strikes 70's, still have a 70 rating, but all the non-first strikes have a rating of 71. And what really is a mess is that now when I use the shop button, it lists all the non-first strike coins out there for sale as upgrades to most all my FS coins.

This same thing is happening to several other sets like the buffalos. I dropped to #8 when I actually have all 70's and should stay #1, as I have been for years. Again since most of mine coins are first strikes, they are not rated up to 142 (71 x 2 for the tougher ones) and only the couple I have in non-FS do that.

Thanks,
Kim

wondercoin

Kim.... I think good news may be on the way.

I heard (can't verify it yet) recently that First Strike coins may receive bonus points starting next year. A move that makes sense to me.

Wondercoin

Goldminers

Wondercoins,

For now I would just be happy to have them at the same rating. Currently they did not upgrade all the FS moderns or the FS DMPL moderns to the same level as the non-FS or PL's. That is some programming oversight that I think they will fix.

BJ

Hi All,

First Strike coins will receive bonus points this week when we roll out a change to the basic set Top Pop bonus plan.

PL and DMPL coins do not receive additional bonus points (and never have) unless the set is a PL/DMPL set. That's not to say that if the coin is a Top Pop it won't receive a Top Pop bonus point. It will!

Goldminers

BJ,

Thanks. There is still some issue with the ATB circulated sets. I have all DMPL MS69's and it is not possible for 6 sets above me to have 70 ratings, as the 2014 Sand Dunes has only one MS70 coin available, so the highest possible rating should be 69.96 for a complete MS69DMPL set which is what those above me show they own, the same as mine. I should be tied with them all as #1, as should several other people with #7 ratings with complete DMPL sets with me. I think there is a PL coin that is getting a 71 rating that shouldn't be, or something like that.

There seems to be some delay in the changes "in progress" as we used to get a "confirm changes" button, but that seems to be intermittent now. I have a lot of sets that show improvements in progress, yet few have actually updated all the details, so many First Strikes are not quite fixed yet.

Are you saying that a PR70 First Strike will eventually get a higher rating than a PR70, non FS (a rating of 72 vs 71?).

I was just trying to get them to have the same rating, as right now several of my top pop First Strike 70's are staying at a rating of 70, where the non-FS 70's were getting 71 ratings.

As a result some of my #1 modern sets show that I now have hundreds of coins to shop for, when in reality there are non out there to improve the set as it is all 70 coins already. The shop button currently wants me to buy all non-First Strikes now to "improve" my sets.

Thanks,
Kim

BJ

Hi All,

Note that the update for the Basic sets has NOT rolled out yet. This means that First Strike Top Pops are still not showing bonus points. We will put a post on the Registry news when the roll out begins.

Thanks for your patience.

BigAl

Apologies in advance for my ignorance, but want to understand...... So FS coins with the exact grade as a non-FS coin gets a bonus point, and DMPL doesn't? Neither makes sense in my book.

I aired out a similar issue long ago with the CC Morgan set.... It make no sense that a PL or DMPL set takes a back seat to a non-designated set when this is what collectors strive for, what the mint is known for doing best, and what prices reflect.

I'm a proponent of the registry concept, however I think the initial planning of the registry sets was not very well thought out, and now too tough to change. There are different rules depending on the set, very confusing and difficult for the collector to understand.

Goldminers, you mentioned an error and I hope it gets fixed, but I hear you. If DMPLs is what you love collecting, do so without regard to the registry, it's not all about the rank. The registry houses many great collections as well as individual coins.

Goldminers

PCGS has updated most all the sets now and fixed any of the issues I originally raised. PL and DMPL now have the same ratings, and First Strike and non-First Strike have the same ratings.

Many Thanks to BJ Searls and the registry team for looking into all of this over the past few weeks.

keyman64

Can someone please explain to me what First Strike refers to when we are talking about the COINS themselves? We already know that they in fact may or may NOT be early or first strikes based on how the mint operates. They just happen to be some of the first coins shipped out by the mint. Shouldn't these be called First Shipped or something like that? DMPL, PL, Full Steps, Full Bands, Full Head, Red, Red Brown, Brown etc etc etc all refer to the qualities of the coin and so point association in coin registry sets makes perfect sense to me. I understand First Strike labeled coins might bring a premium in the marketplace and that is fine...but please explain to me how First Strike actually refers to the coin itself, how someone might distinguish between a First Strike coin and a non First Strike coin if they were holding them raw in hand. Can PCGS graders distinguish between the two? I'm new at this First Strike thing and just trying to understand some different nuances when grading coins and why these coins should get a bump in the coin registry sets.

Maybe other registry sets should get bonuses for Rattler Holders, Doily Holders and Old Green Holders? That would be interesting if we do holder and label registry set competitions. There's clearly a market for it since they will frequently sell for premiums in the market place, just like First Strike.

I love PCGS and the fact BJ has been so helpful answering questions in this thread. So cool.

sparky64

<< <i>but please explain to me how First Strike actually refers to the coin itself, how someone might distinguish between a First Strike coin and a non First Strike coin if they were holding them raw in hand. >>


I'm willing to bet that you already know the answer to your question and that you didn't just fall off the turnip truck.

I don't have a Registry set that would have possible FS coins and don't see ever having one.
But never say never.
For example, I ordered several HOF coins that would have qualified for FS but like them as is, in OGP.

That is not to dismiss those who are competitive with sets that have eligible coins. I respect their concerns.

Also dislike your holder bonus idea.
But there's no doubt people would scramble if it ever came to be.