An Anglo-Saxon Newp (or, It's not even June, and I'm feeling like Greece of ten years ago)

EVillageProwler

This purchase will cause me financial hardship, but it's likely to be a very special coin and if I can help it I don't want a true opportunity to slip by me.

From the dealer's web site:

HARTHACNUT - Joint King Harold I

Jewel Cross type Penny, struck Spring-Autumn ca.1036AD, ca.18mm, ca.1.1g

London. +HARDA-CNVT RE, diademed & cuirassed bust right / +BRVN ON NLVNDE, central cross of four ovals, joined at centre by two circles, with pellet within.

S1167, N809

VERY RARE. A super example!

From my email exchange with the dealer:

We would grade the coin almost as struck with hardly any wear, at least GVF to NEF. In fact the only wear would be what was on the die at the time. It’s of superb metal with slight toning, no porosity. It’s the finest example I’ve seen in a long time. There are other examples that are only slightly better that dealers are asking £11,000 +. In the 23 years of trading I have only had 2 full pennies whereas I have had about 6 cut halves.

The £11,000 coin was piece offered by AMR Coins, and lavishly praised by them. You be the judge: AMR. I have never done business with AMR before, and cannot attest to how conservative is their grading. My dealer seems a slight bit conservative grading-wise to me.

Another coin for comparison is from Lloyd Bennett, who is very conservative with his grading: CoinsOfBritain

The AMR coin is clearly very nice, but I cannot say *how* nice. Lloyd's coins (he actually sold S-1167 as well as S-1166 and S-1168 at the same time to a single dealer who was hoarding them and had them at the NYINC 2014 show) all have peck marks, whereas my newp does not.

Overall, I am happy with the purchase but am not happy with the purchase solely because this will truly hurt the wallet. BTW, I now need only one piece for my AtG-to-H2 set of monarchs (plus some sundry portrait types and non-Wessex pieces I'd like to get to round out my set).

TwoKopeiki

That's quite a newp, EVP! Congrats!

WillieBoyd2

Very nice coin!.

I am curious, what are "peck marks"?

EVillageProwler

<< <i>I am curious, what are "peck marks"? >>



A peck mark is, typically, a blade cut on a penny as a crude way of ensuring that the coin is truly silver and not plated. At the time, a lot of these pennies were used as tribute payments (danegeld) to keep the peace with their aggressive Viking neighbors. You can see them easily on the Lloyd piece. And, as you can guess, they don't enhance the coin's value. If non-intrusive, then they won't diminish the coin's value by much either.

EVP

brg5658

<< <i>I am curious, what are "peck marks"? >>



I have always liked the definition I found on the Fitzwilliam Museum site long ago...

"The small gouges on the coin are known as 'peck' marks and were made with a knife to test the purity of the silver. The Anglo-Saxons would have had no need to do this, as the bust of Æthelred on the coin was a royal guarantee of its value: this coin could be exchanged for a penny worth of goods. The Vikings, however, only saw the coin for its silver content and pecked or bent it to find out how soft, and therefore how pure it was."

Cool NEWP EVP -- I can't believe how expensive these little silvers are!

EVillageProwler

Thanks for the nice words, folks!



<< <i>Cool NEWP EVP -- I can't believe how expensive these little silvers are! >>



Yes, indeed! I got out of US because the prices are too high for the good stuff. Now this stuff is also getting beyond my price range. Sad.

BTW, can anyone help me figure out who is the moneyer? I googled for BRVN and other key words, but so far I haven't found the "English" spelling of BRVN's name. Would appreciate someone with more time than I currently have to help out. I must work to keep my salary to pay for my addiction.

Zohar

That's just awesome. Congratulations to you.

marcmoish

wow - I don't know these at all - but comparing the AMR piece which looks great - the portrait/portrait details is superior than yours BUT look at your strike - its so perfectly centered - and your lettering/inscriptions on both sides are WAY superior to the AMR piece. I wud say identical if all oranges and bananas are in the basket ...hence you probably did more then fantastic with this one. I do wonder if you should authenticate it .

EVillageProwler

<< <i>wow - I don't know these at all - but comparing the AMR piece which looks great - the portrait/portrait details is superior than yours BUT look at your strike - its so perfectly centered - and your lettering/inscriptions on both sides are WAY superior to the AMR piece. I wud say identical if all oranges and bananas are in the basket ...hence you probably did more then fantastic with this one. I do wonder if you should authenticate it . >>



Interesting comments, Marc. I think the AMR coin is better than mine, keeping in mind that I'm just going by pics and descriptions. The slight rev off-centering of the AMR coin doesn't bother me because it doesn't upset any of the legend or devices.

As for authenticity, that is a realistic concern for sure. But, I try to buy from reputable sources whose professional obligation to authenticity is un-impeached. I keep careful records of my purchases, including as much provenance information as possible. I write that stuff down on my own tags that accompany each penny in individual flips.

My bigger concern is that there will be another hoard containing quantities of very nice quality Harthacnut pennies that will impact my coin's market value.

EVP

brg5658

<< <i>Thanks for the nice words, folks!



<< <i>Cool NEWP EVP -- I can't believe how expensive these little silvers are! >>



Yes, indeed! I got out of US because the prices are too high for the good stuff. Now this stuff is also getting beyond my price range. Sad.

BTW, can anyone help me figure out who is the moneyer? I googled for BRVN and other key words, but so far I haven't found the "English" spelling of BRVN's name. Would appreciate someone with more time than I currently have to help out. I must work to keep my salary to pay for my addiction. >>



Hi EVP, check out this awesome article where you will find a complete listing of these types. Look at page 50 line #118, and you will (I think) find that your coin was minted in London.

====================
Parsons, H. Alexander. THE ANGLO-SAXON COINS OF HARTHACNUT, BNJ 1915.
London Mint, Type 1B
Obverse: +HARDACNVT RE
Reverse: +BRVN ONN LVNDE

EVillageProwler

BRG - thanks, I saw that BNJ article already and already know that my coin's mint name is London. I'm looking for the person who minted the coin (moneyer). The coin says he is BRVN, so I'm looking for his modern English spelling. Like BRNDN for Brandon.

EVP

brg5658

<< <i>BRG - thanks, I saw that BNJ article already and already know that my coin's mint name is London. I'm looking for the person who minted the coin (moneyer). The coin says he is BRVN, so I'm looking for his modern English spelling. Like BRNDN for Brandon.

EVP >>



Oh, I missed that part. Search on "Brungar of London"...or "Brungar on London"...

I think that should do it.

EVillageProwler

Brungar - that's it, I think.

BTW, BRG, how did you know to look for Brungar? When I searched for "London moneyers of Harthacnut", I got a hit for Brungar. Otherwise, it doesn't seem that intuitive to me.

EVP

brg5658

<< <i>Brungar - that's it, I think.

BTW, BRG, how did you know to look for Brungar? When I searched for "London moneyers of Harthacnut", I got a hit for Brungar. Otherwise, it doesn't seem that intuitive to me.

EVP >>



I'm not certain it's correct, but it was deduced from this article.

Nap

<< <i>BTW, can anyone help me figure out who is the moneyer? I googled for BRVN and other key words, but so far I haven't found the "English" spelling of BRVN's name. Would appreciate someone with more time than I currently have to help out. I must work to keep my salary to pay for my addiction. >>



I think it's just Brun, and I think Brun just means Brown. In fact, I believe the name Brun is the ancestor to the (common) name 'Brown'.

There are moneyers for Harthacnut named Brunman, Brungar, Brunstan, Bruning, Brunwine, Brunred, and Leofred Brun, as well as your Brun. Several of those moneyers produced coins in London.

The EMC calls the moneyer BRVN "Bruna." (eg, see EMC 1018.0666) I'm not so sure why they added an 'a'. I've never been a huge fan of adding letters that are not there to make a modern translation, especially when Brun sounds like a perfectly good name on its own.

EVillageProwler

Nap - in one of the BNJ articles, they say that BRVN is the same name as BRVNA, like Fred and Fredrick. Anyway, I'll ask the seller. He should know.

JCMhouston

Very nice EVP!

NiceCurrency

holy moly

we are watching Vikings and along with your posts and others I am really starting to appreciate this period of coinage

EVillageProwler

<< <i>we are watching Vikings and along with your posts and others I am really starting to appreciate this period of coinage >>



The coinage of European Dark Ages to early Medieval period has really grabbed my attention. Before I branch out of Anglo-Saxon pennies, sceattas and stycas, I've been try to learn more about contemporary issues from elsewhere and in other types of metal too (gold, or debased alloy). Many Carolingian deniers and Visigothic tremisses are so cheap, for example, when compared to Anglo-Saxon equivalents.

EVP

Nap

<< <i>Nap - in one of the BNJ articles, they say that BRVN is the same name as BRVNA, like Fred and Fredrick. Anyway, I'll ask the seller. He should know. >>



Had to go back a little for this. In "Studies on Uncompounded Personal Names in Old English" (Redin, 1919) the name Brun is listed as being derived from old High German, and being comparable to the forms Bruna and Bruni, as well as Bryni and Brynca. The name exists in Scandanavia as well but it is unclear if it is of Scandanavian origin. The name Bruning or Bruninc is considered a patronymic form of Brun.

A name like Brunred or Brunstan is a different name, a compound name formed from Brun + Ræd or Brun + Stan

Nap

<< <i>The coinage of European Dark Ages to early Medieval period has really grabbed my attention. Before I branch out of Anglo-Saxon pennies, sceattas and stycas, I've been try to learn more about contemporary issues from elsewhere and in other types of metal too (gold, or debased alloy). Many Carolingian deniers and Visigothic tremisses are so cheap, for example, when compared to Anglo-Saxon equivalents.

EVP >>



Be careful! There's a lot of cool stuff out there and it's easy to lose focus!

In time, I'd like to branch out to German bracteates, Scandanavian pennies, Carolingian deniers. Merovingian and migration period stuff is also really neat. Russian wire money, French provincial and early jetons, Scottish hammered, English coins of the Anarchy... the list goes on forever!

EVillageProwler

<< <i>

<< <i>Nap - in one of the BNJ articles, they say that BRVN is the same name as BRVNA, like Fred and Fredrick. Anyway, I'll ask the seller. He should know. >>



Had to go back a little for this. In "Studies on Uncompounded Personal Names in Old English" (Redin, 1919) the name Brun is listed as being derived from old High German, and being comparable to the forms Bruna and Bruni, as well as Bryni and Brynca. The name exists in Scandanavia as well but it is unclear if it is of Scandanavian origin. The name Bruning or Bruninc is considered a patronymic form of Brun.

A name like Brunred or Brunstan is a different name, a compound name formed from Brun + Ræd or Brun + Stan >>



If Brunred means "Wise Brun", then is that really different from just Brun?

Brunnic is really just "Place/Market/Bazaar of Brun", or "Brun's Place/Market/Bazaar", or even simply "of Brun" that usually relates to a location.

And, for those of you who know any Slavic, like Russian, you may notice the similarity in proper noun styles: the early Germanic person's names use a single word, with a patronymic too but in a different grammatical context. Early Russian too, with a personal name and an adjectival patronymic. I don't know Celtic at all, but wonder if they have anything similar. In the early half of the first millennium CE, the Celtic, Germanic and Slavic peoples lived clustered near each other in north-central Europe. Proto-Germanic and Proto-Slavic both are in the Indo-European family of languages, though I don't easily recognize any similarity between the *spoken* form of their modern versions. And, Celtic is about as alien to me as imaginable (not even in the Indo-European family!).

Anyway, not to digress too much... I guess the moneyer is Brun? (I haven't heard back from the dealer -- now that he already sold the coin to me, I've become chopped liver until the next possible sale!).

EVP

EVillageProwler

Got my coin today, and it looks like a fresh dig with really minimal peripheral toning. Ignoring the lack of original patina, the surfaces are really very nice: lustrous, wholesome and minimally abraded/worn (if at all!). Maybe I should stop touching it with my bare fingers.

I'll try imaging it when I can, but it'll likely just be a larger version of the one already provided.

EVP