Have you ever had a seller price a raw card....

BLUEJAYWAY

but based the selling price on what they thought it would be worth if it was graded?

totallyradd

Yup. I see it at the Milwaukee shows a lot. (I don't attend them very often because of it).

One instance that stands out was a guy at a local show had two very nice rookies for sale. One a Hank Aaron, and one a Nolan Ryan. He wanted 1500 firm on the Aaron believing it had a chance at a 7 (which it may have, or at least a 6.5), and insisted it was certainly a 6. This was last summer when Aaron cards were still going for 1400-1500 for a 6. I told him I'd be interested in purchasing it for a lesser price and sending it in, but I couldn't give him 6 money unless that's the grade. It was a similar story with the Ryan card, but I'm not in the market for that card, so I didn't try to haggle.

Now, maybe someone with a better eye than myself could've caught a steal there if they thought it could get a 7, and gave him his 1500. But why pay for the raw cards for a graded price, and then pay an additional fee to get that card graded? I also don't have that type of money to throw down on a gamble and lose when PSA 5's are pretty readily available on eBay daily.

After thinking about it later I wondered if the guy is a dealer, and he knows the value of that card graded, why hasn't he gotten it graded yet? Doesn't that sound some alarms on why it's still raw? Possibly trimmed?

Just my $0.02

MrNearMint

<< <i> But why pay for the raw cards for a graded price, and then pay an additional fee to get that card graded?

After thinking about it later I wondered if the guy is a dealer, and he knows the value of that card graded, why hasn't he gotten it graded yet? Doesn't that sound some alarms on why it's still raw? Possibly trimmed? >>





+1

That's why I love graded cards!

ndleo

The nice raw cards at shows seem to have the tiny crease or wrinkle that is hard to see under the VFW fluorescent lights.

I bought a $2100 lot of cards from a dealer that included what i thought was a gradable Rose RC. He mostly had graded cards so I asked him why the Rose was raw and he said that he hadn't got around to grading it yet. I got caught up in the deal making and ended up buying the card in the lot. When I took it home, I saw the light surface crease from the middle top edge about 0.5" down.

I was lucky that the other stuff I bought brought in $2000, the Rose is still worth a few hundred in a PSA 3/4 holder, so I didn't get burned too much.

80sOPC

If a card is truly NM, or Mint or whatever I don's see any reason why a seller shouldn't ask for a NM or Mint graded price. The card is what it is.

sportscardstop

A lot of dealers use Beckett for Raw. So in the example of the Hank Aaron, I think it was priced fairly.

However, if it was a $100 raw card and he was asking $500 because it "might get an 8", then that's a little different story. Most people can easily tell if it will be in the range of a 6 or 7. But when you get into 8's and higher, it can be a crapshoot depending on the grader and the day.

Dpeck100

I am not certain what is shocking about this.

There are loads of cards that have been sold on EBAY over the years at prices at or higher then what they generally sell for in a holder in the same grade.

I have sold plenty of singles raw and got graded prices for them.

charrigan

Seems like that would be the best way to price it, perhaps minus $6 for the grading fee. Every other metric (book value, etc) is way off. Sale prices in various grades are the closest thing to objective value (defined as the price people are actually paying) that we have.

Dpeck100

I have also gambled numerous times on raw cards and paid higher then what the card would sell for in that grade.

Let's say you have a card that sells in a PSA 8 for $30 but could command $300 in a PSA 9. In many cases it is going to take more then $30 to win that card because the spread between the grades is so large and others are willing to take the gamble too. All it takes is a few of those to go in your favor and it cancels out a lot that didn't.

If you are building sets you have to take chances and this means sometimes taking losses on cards trying to advance your set.

ScottJayhawk

How else would you price cards?

Webb63

What a seller thinks the grade is vs. what the card will receive from the grading company could be very different - and more times than not, it will be different. Anyone willing to buy a raw card for the same price as one graded (assuming he/she thinks the raw card would receive the same grade) is taking a major gamble. Obviously a seller can ask whatever they want for their item(s), but I can't see any sense in paying the same price for a raw card...what would be the point?

Dpeck100

There is not one of us that can grade cards at a 100% success rate.

When you see really nice raw cards it is a judgment call and you have to be willing to spend if you want nice raw cards to try and grade.

If you never take chances you will miss out on great opportunities.

There are numerous reasons to pay the same prices. Some collectors like raw cards. Others want to get nice cards signed. Some like to grade their own set.

OP is there a specific card that led you to start this thread?

gemint

<< <i>There is not one of us that can grade cards at a 100% success rate.

When you see really nice raw cards it is a judgment call and you have to be willing to spend if you want nice raw cards to try and grade.

If you never take chances you will miss out on great opportunities.

There are numerous reasons to pay the same prices. Some collectors like raw cards. Others want to get nice cards signed. Some like to grade their own set.

OP is there a specific card that led you to start this thread? >>



I used to refuse to pay higher than book price for a card (pre-PSA days). The rare instance was a 1969 Clemente where I paid $100 when the hi book was $50. That card ended up eventually grading a 9. I wonder how many high grade star cards I missed out on because I wouldn't pay a premium for them.

seebelow

there are a lot of people who miss out because they don't want to pay a premium. except usually the premium is the going rate. and the book rate or smr rate is way behind the current market. especially on highly sought after, very collectible pieces.

as far as..the card is what it is....its never the same between the seller and the buyer....what it is is dependent on so many variables....and most of them being subjective...so..
subjective variables = a complete hot mess

at least the grading services have brought some stability to the market and brought back many collectors.

charrigan

Why anyone would use a book value (SMR or Beckett) is beyond me. There are so, so many better ways to do it. Pick any of them.

seebelow

great question...the only time someone uses SMR is when they want to buy a mantle psa 8 or HOF RC etc and say they'll only pay mid range SMR cause "thats the market"
..check B/T/S forum...he and they are still here posting.

Webb63

<< <i>There is not one of us that can grade cards at a 100% success rate.

When you see really nice raw cards it is a judgment call and you have to be willing to spend if you want nice raw cards to try and grade.

If you never take chances you will miss out on great opportunities.

There are numerous reasons to pay the same prices. Some collectors like raw cards. Others want to get nice cards signed. Some like to grade their own set.

OP is there a specific card that led you to start this thread? >>



I hear you, but none of that justifies paying THE SAME price for a raw card. I may be missing something - what great opportunity would someone be missing out on by not paying a PSA 9 price for a raw card that looks like it "might" get a 9? Just go buy the card already in a 9 and not take the risk. Now, if you're saying you should be willing to pay a premium because it's a nice card….sure, but not the same as a one in a holder with that grade already on it.

ashabby

If you think a fair deal make the deal if not walk away. That is trading 101. Everything else may be true or not based on more information and facts. Part of the fun is not always getting it right. Learning and then making a deal down the road that works in your favor.

basketballcollector

What do you do if you buy the raw card "thinking it will grade a 9", but you miss something & it grades only a 7 or 8 ?

Dpeck100

<< <i>What do you do if you buy the raw card "thinking it will grade a 9", but you miss something & it grades only a 7 or 8 ? >>




You lose.


What if you buy the card listed as NM-MT and it grades Mint?


You win.


There are very few sellers in my experience that actually list cards as Mint. The term NM-MT in my view is the most over used term in card collecting. I have seen cards with mangled corners listed this way.


At the end of the day you the buyer has to make the best determination of what you think it will grade and base your purchase decision on that.

totallyradd

<< <i>There is not one of us that can grade cards at a 100% success rate. >>



This statement is entirely true, but you forgot about EagleEyeKid

I agree with what your saying Dpeck, I bought a Gwynn Fleer rookie for 15 or 20, and it came back a 10. Personally, I can take chances like those, but I can't do much more than $100. Unless I'm positive I'll come out even. In my case with the Aaron, that was too big of a gamble for me, but for others maybe not so much.

Dpeck100

<< <i>

<< <i>There is not one of us that can grade cards at a 100% success rate. >>



This statement is entirely true, but you forgot about EagleEyeKid

I agree with what your saying Dpeck, I bought a Gwynn Fleer rookie for 15 or 20, and it came back a 10. Personally, I can take chances like those, but I can't do much more than $100. Unless I'm positive I'll come out even. In my case with the Aaron, that was too big of a gamble for me, but for others maybe not so much. >>




He is only 98% accurate.

80sOPC

<< <i>What do you do if you buy the raw card "thinking it will grade a 9", but you miss something & it grades only a 7 or 8 ? >>



If selling that may be a problem but if collecting who cares? If it looks like a 9 and PSA throws it in an 8 slab it will still look like a 9. I've started to simply buy the best looking cards I can afford regardless of raw/tpg/grade.

RedRomad275

I might be Capt Obvious here but I think some sellers don't grade cards due to the flexibility or subjectivity of the grade. If a dealer thinks a card is a 9 and advertises it at 9 prices, someone will come along and want to take a chance or agree to his assesment. It's a way to increase the profit by the dealer. If he sells nothing but graded cards there is more of a line that can't be crossed in price paid for a card.

Red

Griffins

I've had it happen before. One seller told me he knew people were "taking money from me" by buying cards raw, grading them, and then selling them.

The most offensive thing I had happen was at the National a few years ago. A seller had a few cards I needed but they weren't priced. When I asked for a price he looked them up on vcp, and then looked up my registry set to see how much it would upgrade my set and where it would put me, and priced it according to that. I didn't dignify him with a response and walked away. Haven't bought from them since.

ashabby

<< <i>I've had it happen before. One seller told me he knew people were "taking money from me" by buying cards raw, grading them, and then selling them.

The most offensive thing I had happen was at the National a few years ago. A seller had a few cards I needed but they weren't priced. When I asked for a price he looked them up on vcp, and then looked up my registry set to see how much it would upgrade my set and where it would put me, and priced it according to that. I didn't dignify him with a response and walked away. Haven't bought from them since. >>



Wow. That is a lot of work to sell a card. Just price it an move on is what want sellers to do. I like how American pickers do the price.

BLUEJAYWAY

<< <i>There is not one of us that can grade cards at a 100% success rate.

When you see really nice raw cards it is a judgment call and you have to be willing to spend if you want nice raw cards to try and grade.

If you never take chances you will miss out on great opportunities.

There are numerous reasons to pay the same prices. Some collectors like raw cards. Others want to get nice cards signed. Some like to grade their own set.

OP is there a specific card that led you to start this thread? >>

No.Just some prices for raw I've seen listed in various outlets comparable to it's graded counterpart.

heritage

but based the selling price on what they thought it would be worth if it was graded?


Yes I have if I want to pay graded prices I will buy graded cards..