Another ebay seller with questionable practices...

jdillane

While I think there are plenty of unscrupulous sellers, I came across one yesterday that seemed worth a share. jeffscoins does a pretty fair volume of biz though I don't recall his auctions before seeing a raw 1798 DBHE dollar last week. The coin looks to be high AU though probably a bit lifeless due to overdipping. But given the difficulty of assessing luster from images, and since it was well struck, I remained interested, though skeptical. The seller posted images that included MS63 written on a 2x2 under the coin.

Last Thursday, I wrote the seller as follows:

Dear jeffscoins,

Hi, nice looking coin! Luster is difficult to discern from images. Can you comment on the mint luster, whether their are cleaning hairlines and high point luster breaks?

Thanks!

- jdillane

Fast forward to last night. I did not receive a response from jeffscoins but I elected to bid on the coin anyway. I was high bidder with a little over an hour to go in the auction. I received an alert that I was outbid and decided to make another bid on the coin. But, lo, I find that I am blocked. So I write jeffscoins and his reply:

Dear jdillane,

I am selling the coin on consignment and it is currently with the owner so I couldn't comment on your question.

- jeffscoins

I informed seller that I would report him to the boards. Ergo this post. His overall feedback is quite good. But definitely a caveat emptor type seller.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1798-Draped-Bust-Dollar-UNC-1-Uncirculated-Silver-Flowing-Hair-Ultra-Rare-/291435253159?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43dae50da7

291fifth

Why would you even consider buying an unslabbed 1798 Dollar on eBay?

DennisH

Link to the coin.

It has the "look" of a fake to me. A really, really good fake.

jclovescoins

xf/au details only ...definitely not anywhere near UNC

jdillane

I realize that it is risky and I've curbed the practice considerably.

Oh this coin is real. Probably just dipped out. A shame too. Well struck and very little wear.

LindeDad

Be glad you were blocked.

MonsterCoinz

I didn't realize blocked buyers could still PM you.

Wolf359

I've learned that sellers who won't answer questions are to be avoided. Never bid on their coins.

The guy blocked you, in my opinion, because you know what you're doing.

jdillane

I thanked jeffscoins for blocking me. And yes the email system works, it's only bidding that is blocked.

I just ran a search on the forum for jeffscoins. Not to self, do the search before bidding on high value items.


I should also add that, oddly enough, I do not find dipped coins to be wholly without appeal. If this specimen is not hairlined and if despite the dip she still has muted luster, I could find enjoyment in such a coin (even at XF money).

Stuart

There are probably valid condition & preservation state related reasons why a high value coin like this (if genuine) is not being offered in a reputable TPGS certified slab.

AUandAG

This is the same Jeffscoins that has those Mason jars full of made up stuff????

Scammer all the way, in my HUMBLE opinion.

bob

coindeuce

A seller with 98 neutral FB and 14 negative FB in the past 12 months would be enough to make me simply scoff and move along. Let the other eBay geniuses fix their own stupid.

mrearlygold

<< <i>I didn't realize blocked buyers could still PM you. >>




That's what I thought too

Wabbit2313

<< <i>A seller with 98 neutral FB and 14 negative FB in the past 12 months would be enough to make me simply scoff and move along. Let the other eBay geniuses fix their own stupid. >>




16800 positives and you think 12 negatives (not 14) is bad? NOT!

AMRC

The last few stories on these boards bashing eBay or eBay sellers seem to make me want to scratch my head and say "dear buyers, YOU asked for this." Maybe I do not have all the facts, but asking for discounts after the fact, buying un-slabbed coin worth >$300, just tells me some people are not done with their coin "edumacations."

VanHalen

His unsearched wheaties listing from an estate is enough for me to look elsewhere.

okiedude

<< <i>A seller with 98 neutral FB and 14 negative FB in the past 12 months would be enough to make me simply scoff and move along. Let the other eBay geniuses fix their own stupid.[/]
That's well within the law of averages on eBay given his volume. Plus if you look at the neg/neutrals they are almost all for his "junk" lots-LOL!
I think the OP should be glad he did not drop a chunk 'o change on this one. Something fishy about it?

19Lyds

Hmph. Not the first seller to block someone for asking an obvious question. He probably figured you were just trouble looking for a place to land since its obvious from the photo that there are luster breaks on the high points.

I don't know that I'd consider this a "questionable practice" as much as I'd consider it as not wanting to deal with you because of the question.

Wabbit2313

I had a guy ask me if that was some time of milk spot on a Morgan in the corner of the coin. (I use huge images so that I don't have to deal with returns because of bad images.)

Anyway, after looking with my 10X I saw some little tiny haze type spot. I told him the coin looks worse than he thought and he would not want it. If someone is going to ask questions like this, they are probably not going to be happy with anything.

As far as the OP questions here, this seller knows he is not going to be fooled by a coin that would always be in a holder unless it was cleaned or worse. He wanted to make sure you didn't buy it. When you see how many other coins of his are graded, you should automatically know this by the way.

Finally, you being blocked and then ratting him out here..........more to the story I would bet.

Bochiman

Interesting that there would be ANY surprise that asking a question would get one blocked....

There are MANY board members that have repeatedly publicly stated that they block people that ask questions.
They have said that they feel people asking questions are potential problems.

I disagree with that but enough have posted that that is what they do.


In this case, it would not have been something to bother bidding on.

LanceNewmanOCC

.
too bad this turned out this way. a good price for that coin, gradable or not.

soft-ish strike and somewhat lifeless but a coin like that would easily be $9k+ in many dealer booths.
.

ShadyDave

<< <i>The last few stories on these boards bashing eBay or eBay sellers seem to make me want to scratch my head and say "dear buyers, YOU asked for this." Maybe I do not have all the facts, but asking for discounts after the fact, buying un-slabbed coin worth >$300, just tells me some people are not done with their coin "edumacations." >>




AMRC- I'm right there with you. Common sense goes a long way in this hobby. "If it's to good to be true, it probably is" and "Trust but verify" are two pieces of wisdom I try to keep in the back of my head!

jdillane

Buying raw coins on ebay is not for the squeamish.

I recall an 1801 DBHE Dollar that an ebay seller had listed as "VF40". The images were somewhat lacking. Nonetheless I chased the coin and won her. Our hosts saw fit to give her an AU53. I suspect I wouldn't have gotten her for a song had others been as willing to take a chance. Or the 1795 DBSE dollar I won raw that now resides in a PCGS 50 holder. But not every venture yielded success, to be sure.

A 1799 bust dollar won raw on ebay turned out to be the notched R fake noted in the PCGS Counterfeits book. The seller promptly returned my funds once I pointed out the issue. So yeah one must be very careful playing in the raw coin sandbox.

Then again the certified sandbox is not without its perils. Like the PCGS F15 1799 DBHE dollar that I chased for her (IMO) VF meat. I carelessly cracked her out before adequately examining her only to discover that she had likely been net graded after the obverse fields had been smoothed. Lost on that one, let me tell you.

Or the Seller out of CA who decided to keep my money and not ship the 1798 DBHE PCGS VF35 OGH I had won. This was back in 2006. Neither Paypal nor eBay would lift a finger to assist me, ostensibly due to "privacy concerns" oh and Paypal did reimburse $1,000 and claimed they were pursuing the balance but would not share what pursuit meant to them. I was made whole after joining the class action suit vs Paypal.

Connecticoin

That coin did not look right to me. Like others said, consider yourself lucky you were blocked!

lordmarcovan

<< <i>This is the same Jeffscoins that has those Mason jars full of made up stuff???? >>



Oh, is it Jeff the Jar Guy? Yeah, he's racked up some notoriety on the numismatic message boards.

jdillane

<< <i>Finally, you being blocked and then ratting him out here..........more to the story I would bet. >>



If jeffscoins is on the boards here I invite him to add to the story. But he won't because there is nothing more to add. I posted because I informed the seller that I would do so. It was only after informing him of this that he sent the reply indicating the coin was a consignment.

I asked questions because I figured the seller would answer them and since it was a no return auction, I couldn't imagine not asking. The seller didn't block me when I asked either. He blocked me after I was the high bidder. I would have preferred that my bids be removed altogether. At the time I wondered if I had become a de facto shill helping to boost the hammer.

I've won thousands of coins on the bay. I've returned (excluding my foolish escapades with Centsles that I won't recount here) four that I recall. Maybe a fifth coin that I've forgotten. And back in my feeding frenzy days, I routinely asked questions in advance. Heck, some sellers specifically invite questions.

BryceM

Wow. Your level of risk tolerance is quite different than mine. Some of it is probably due to my own ignorance with this segment of the market.

If I had an appetite for impaired, rather valuable coins, I'd still insist they be in TPG plastic. I might make a few exceptions, but never from a buyer who wouldn't respond to questions.

TPRC

<< <i>Buying raw coins on ebay is not for the squeamish.

I recall an 1801 DBHE Dollar that an ebay seller had listed as "VF40". The images were somewhat lacking. Nonetheless I chased the coin and won her. Our hosts saw fit to give her an AU53. I suspect I wouldn't have gotten her for a song had others been as willing to take a chance. Or the 1795 DBSE dollar I won raw that now resides in a PCGS 50 holder. But not every venture yielded success, to be sure.

A 1799 bust dollar won raw on ebay turned out to be the notched R fake noted in the PCGS Counterfeits book. The seller promptly returned my funds once I pointed out the issue. So yeah one must be very careful playing in the raw coin sandbox.

Then again the certified sandbox is not without its perils. Like the PCGS F15 1799 DBHE dollar that I chased for her (IMO) VF meat. I carelessly cracked her out before adequately examining her only to discover that she had likely been net graded after the obverse fields had been smoothed. Lost on that one, let me tell you.

Or the Seller out of CA who decided to keep my money and not ship the 1798 DBHE PCGS VF35 OGH I had won. This was back in 2006. Neither Paypal nor eBay would lift a finger to assist me, ostensibly due to "privacy concerns" oh and Paypal did reimburse $1,000 and claimed they were pursuing the balance but would not share what pursuit meant to them. I was made whole after joining the class action suit vs Paypal. >>



Ouch! I'll bet that last one hurt. Win some....lose some...on balance, it doesn't seem worth the risk. The coin in the post looks too nice to be true to me. In addition to the other comments, the coin looks like it has been repaired at 10:00 o'clock on obverse rim.

Best of luck to you.

ebaybuyer

awfully bright for a coin that old. looks like a baking soda special, which is probably why he blocked you, there is no luster on that coin, so when you ask about "broken luster" he knows you are hoping for much more than you will receive. if it would grade it would be graded. odds are that whomever bought will hope for a gradeable UNC when in fact they will receive a cleaned coin that wont grade and of course it will be a SNAD candidate, because everything can be considered SNAD if it isn't what the buyer hoped for. your chances of making that "Big score" on ebay are drastically reduced when you lack common sense. a seller with a name like jeffscoins, with a feedback of over 27,000 ... selling a coin that should fetch nearly $10k and they didn't bother to try and get it graded, lol what reason can you think of that it isn't graded ? could it be that they were trying to give some lucky buyer a great deal ? could it be that they normally sell generic silver and don't know the value of that dollar ? could it be that they simply forgot to send it in for grading ? if you were hopeful of any of these scenarios, you need to sit down with someone and have a "santa talk" sorry to be brash, but if you are going to shop for raw coins on ebay .... of that caliber, you need to be smarter about it

OldIndianNutKase

I think that jeffscoins may be a legitimate dealer, but obviously not a dealer in the true sense of a dealer that has ownership of his inventory, at least for this item. In this case he is acting as an agnet and not as a dealer. I find his responses accurate as to his communications with you, but he is not disclosing his relationship to the coin in his listing. The coin appears to have way to much rub to be advertised as MS63, and may only be EF40. This coin may have been a brilliant buy at the selling price (+), but I think you know the potential for risk on the deal, and you exhibited rational restraint. But I am not sure that the seller is not ethical despite all of his other "listings"..

OINK

jdillane

Obviously I knew the coin was a high risk proposition. She's an AU specimen all day every day. Not xf, not unc. I was a bit concerned that there may have been some work done to the rim and that would be a deal breaker. I'd prefer over dipped to cleaning hairlines. And I realize it's not everyone's cup of tea. But short of repairs to the rim, the coin speaks to me.

pennyannie

I used to sell a lot of ebay and never blocked anyone, sold to brand new ebayers and others. My work does not allow me to stay connected on a seconds notice to reply to questions. That said and given the seller did not have the coin in hand I do not blame him for blocking you. The seller was just reducing his risk of a troubled sale. No harm no foul in my opinion.

jdillane

Mark,

I posed the question on Thursday. The auction ended the following Monday morning. He blocked me after I bid and was high bidder. While the final hammer was significantly higher than I was willing to bid, I wonder if his consignor (if there was one) would be pleased to know that interested parties with reasonable questions would be blocked without so much as a reply. One can only speculate how many others may have made inquiry only to be precluded from competing on the coin. Obviously this could have a dramatically adverse impact on the result.

After I posted I searched the boards for other threads on jeffscoins. You might want to do the same. My thread is the least critical you will find.

vplite

<< <i>Link to the coin.

It has the "look" of a fake to me. A really, really good fake. >>



It would be very scary if that is a counterfeit. I hope those pictures are hiding wear and cleaning.

This sellers offerings are "fantastic".

mr1931S

There are MANY board members that have repeatedly publicly stated that they block people that ask questions.

Not really in the spirit of a vibrant numismatic community is it?

CoinJunkie

<< <i>I posed the question on Thursday. The auction ended the following Monday morning. He blocked me after I bid and was high bidder. While the final hammer was significantly higher than I was willing to bid, I wonder if his consignor (if there was one) would be pleased to know that interested parties with reasonable questions would be blocked without so much as a reply. One can only speculate how many others may have made inquiry only to be precluded from competing on the coin. Obviously this could have a dramatically adverse impact on the result. >>


It's at least a possibility that the consignor desired very quick payment, and the seller was taking measures
to increase the probability that the coin would not be returned.

au58

<< <i>I informed seller that I would report him to the boards. Ergo this post. >>



Is that like double secret probation?

silverpop

I don't deal with e-bay cause too many red flags, scammers, fake coin sellers and very few real coin sellers

thanks i'll buy my coins from a coin shop or from people I know

telephoto1

OP, imo you dodged a large bullet. That coin looks different than a piece with just a few dips. It has an unnatural cleaned look... and also those "luster breaks" on both sides of the coin all seem to have the same copperish look to them in the image. I'm on the fence as to whether it's genuine. Why would a piece of this "quality" not reside in a holder, even if it's a details holder?

telephoto1

Another questionable dollar... is it just me or does that piece seem a bit smaller than it should be? Look at the image of it in the guy's hand.

PRECIOUSMENTAL

Yes, is the same person that is selling the "Silver Dollar Ranch Hoard" coins and currency in the Mason jars.
Has been a topic at CCF for awhile now.

VanHalen

<< <i>Another questionable dollar... is it just me or does that piece seem a bit smaller than it should be? Look at the image of it in the guy's hand. >>



Wow! Look at that reverse. UNITED looks really weak even for the Chinese variety.

asheland

<< <i>That coin did not look right to me. Like others said, consider yourself lucky you were blocked! >>

roadrunner

I once had a buyer who was interested in seeing my PCGS ogh VG10 1795 half. It was a decent piece too with closer to F12 detail. They asked the question: "Is there anything wrong with it"? I pondered that and decided to come 100% clean on that coin as I didn't want it shipped only to be returned....and a potential "black mark" against me. I wrote 2 pages up on the coin noting approx 50 "defects" on the coin. Every adjustment mark, scratch, nick, ding, bump, hairline, strike weakness, dig, potential cleaning, etc. I have no idea what someone will think is a problem or "defect." They wanted nothing to do with it once they saw that laundry list. A week or two later I sold the coin to a national dealer for even more money as essentially a FINE 12. They thought the coin was great.