British short cross penny with unusual double strike!

Nap

This is one of the most dramatic double strikes I've ever seen. Heads on tails and tails on heads! While these coins are frequently found weakly struck, double-struck, or off center, I've never seen one like this.

I have to wonder whether it is authentic.

What do you think???





I don't have the coin in hand yet so I can't give a weight.

lordmarcovan

That's a crazy, flipped-over double strike, for sure.

A real train wreck of a coin from the manufacturing standpoint, but pretty darned cool from a collecting standpoint.

Very interesting!

PS- I personally see no reason to doubt its authenticity?

NiceCurrency

and is this on a Richard "the Lionheart" ? wow

Nap

<< <i>That's a crazy, flipped-over double strike, for sure.

A real train wreck of a coin from the manufacturing standpoint, but pretty darned cool from a collecting standpoint.

Very interesting!

PS- I personally see no reason to doubt its authenticity? >>



I -think- it's real as well, which is why I purchased it, but the overlap of certain parts of the design are just weird looking to me. I guess I'll get a better feel for it when I have the coin in hand.

Nap

<< <i>and is this on a Richard "the Lionheart" ? wow >>



I have trouble with ID'ing the short cross pennies. Certainly even more with a distorted mess like this one. How did you figure Richard?

It looks like the mint is London (on image 1 it looks like N . LVIDE +, on image 2 it looks like ON . LV)

The moneyer is more troublesome. On image 1 it looks like the first 2 letters are RA. On image 2 you can't see the moneyer's name at all.

My best guess is RAUL or RAUF on LONDON. Unfortunately this doesn't help because this moneyer struck coins for Henry II, Richard I, John, and Henry III.

lordmarcovan

I too would've had difficulty determining the monarch.

Zohar

NiceCurrency

I'm not knowledgeable on these and thought the portait with the little cross was only Richard I, my bad

Nap

<< <i>I'm not knowledgeable on these and thought the portait with the little cross was only Richard I, my bad >>



Doing my homework now. I'm fairly certain it is not Henry II. The curls of the hair do not look right for Class 1. I'm fairly certain it is also not Richard I. The portrait style and number of crown pearls is not right for class 2, 3 or 4. It is not 5a1 or 5a2 as those have reversed "S" in the monarch's name "hENRICVS"

So I'm left with class 5b-c, 6a-d, 7a-c, or 8a-c.

The initial reverse mark looks like a cross pattée which eliminates 8b-c. The N does not contain a pellet so that eliminates 6d. If the moneyer is indeed Rauf, then he is known for 5c-7b, which eliminates 5b, 7c, and 8a.

So my best guess is either John (class 5c, 6a, 6b, or 6c) or Henry III (class 6c, 7a, or 7b). Maybe someone better versed on short cross coinage can ID it?

SaorAlba

I own a double struck reverse Henry III penny struck in the city of Lincoln - ie probably the oldest known double struck Lincoln penny.

CIVITAS

My gut impression at first glance was John based on portrait style.

asheland

Interesting!

lordmarcovan

<< <i>My gut impression at first glance was John based on portrait style. >>




Hmmm... doesn't look anything like the Prince John I learned about from Disney when I was a kid.



... or Richard the Lionhearted, either, come to think of it...






(But boy, did I love that "Robin Hood" movie when I was a wee lad. I'll bet I could almost lip-synch parts of the dialogue from it now, forty-plus years later.)

Nap

<< <i>

<< <i>My gut impression at first glance was John based on portrait style. >>




Hmmm... doesn't look anything like the Prince John I learned about from Disney when I was a kid.

>>



A pox on the phony king of England!

luckybucks

Nap

Received the coin in hand, appears kosher. Weight is 1.46g.

Seller's pic was pretty accurate, here's my very barebones take on it:

lordmarcovan

Wow, what a jumbly-tumbly coin. It makes my senses reel.

Very neat, though.