Bonus points for the best

PMKAY · April 2, 2015 6:29AM

Just got this email:

Dear PSA Set Registry Members,

For many years, we’ve had feedback from members about our 1-10 weighting scale. For the most part, this scale has serviced us well. Generally, it takes into account the grade and rarity. However, in certain instances, specifically, with cards that are the single finest or tied for the finest graded, the 1-10 scale doesn’t account for the premium that most collectors must pay to own the very best.
In order to reward the owners of these very special cards, we are adding 2 bonus points for items with populations of one, none graded higher, and 1 bonus point for cards that are tied for the very best with none graded higher. These points will be added to the grade of your card as shown in the examples below:

Your Card Status Your Grade Points
8 Highest graded (PSA Pop 2) 9
8 Highest graded (only one graded) 10
8.5 Highest graded (PSA Pop 2) 9.5
8.5 Highest graded (only one graded) 10.5

Should the population change for your item and it loses either the "highest graded" or "highest graded, only one of that grade" status, the bonus points will be adjusted or dropped accordingly.
We are always amazed at the tremendous job our Set Registry participants do with building their collections and we feel the added points for "Pop Tops" will appropriately reward the "best of the best" and the collectors that pursue them. As always, we appreciate your participation in the Set Registry. Happy collecting!

BJ Searls
Set Registry & Special Projects Director

Ripkenfan126 · April 2, 2015 6:37AM

I kinda thought this was a late April fools then I opened my mail.
Seems a little weird.... Kinda cool in some aspects...

grote15 · April 2, 2015 6:43AM

Are there bonus points for any grade above 8.5?

LarkinCollector · April 2, 2015 6:46AM

<< Are there bonus points for any grade above 8.5? >>

I believe so, those listed above are just examples.

ETA: Just checked my Larkin Master and I've received bonus points for several PSA 10 pop 2s, and my PSA 9 pop 1 (none higher).

ETFA: When you go in to edit on a registry set, single bonus points are highlighted in dark gray in the Pop/Pop Higher columns and double bonus points are yellow/gold.

Dboneesq · April 2, 2015 6:50AM

So that should mean that ALL "10s" get at least one bonus point, no?

LarkinCollector · April 2, 2015 6:52AM

<< So that should mean that ALL "10s" get at least one bonus point, no? >>

No, the pop has to be two or less to get bonus points.

grote15 · April 2, 2015 6:54AM

<< 

<< So that should mean that ALL "10s" get at least one bonus point, no? >>

No, the pop has to be two or less to get bonus points. >>

Gotcha. I should get a couple bonus points for my mini set, then, lol.

mojorob · April 2, 2015 7:03AM

Any mention when this calculation might go into effect?

LarkinCollector · April 2, 2015 7:06AM

<< Any mention when this calculation might go into effect? >>

It already has.

mojorob · April 2, 2015 7:13AM

Perhaps a better question would be .... When will the Registry Sets reflect the new point totals?

dytch2220 · April 2, 2015 7:23AM

<< Perhaps a better question would be .... When will the Registry Sets reflect the new point totals? >>

I can see that there is yellow shading on PSA 10 low pop and grey shading on highest example cards in my set, however, like you mentioned there doesn't seem to be a bonus applied yet.

I for one think this is a great idea. Bonus for scarce cards and highest example of tough cards, makes sense.

LarkinCollector · April 2, 2015 7:23AM

<< Perhaps a better question would be .... When will the Registry Sets reflect the new point totals? >>

I don't think the bonuses affect the set point totals, only the individuals point total. My Set Rating went up .01 from yesterday to today.

ETA: So theoretically, one could get higher than a 10.00 set rating or exceed the 'Current Finest Possible Set Rating'.

DanBessette · April 2, 2015 7:25AM

I'm a fan. Will help my Cappelletti registry.

divecchia · April 2, 2015 7:27AM

It has not taken effect in the calculations yet, at least not for the Nolan Ryan Master. I did see all the cards that will receive bonus points under the edit registry section and the bonus points are not limited to PSA 8 and above. I have some PSA 5's, PSA 6's and PSA 7's that are highlighted for one or two bonus points also.

Donato

dytch2220 · April 2, 2015 7:31AM

<< It has not taken effect in the calculations yet, at least not for the Nolan Ryan Master. I did see all the cards that will receive bonus points under the edit registry section and the bonus points are not limited to PSA 8 and above. I have some PSA 5's, PSA 6's and PSA 7's that are highlighted for one or two bonus points also.

Donato >>

Same here. I have a 5 that is highlighted.

mojorob · April 2, 2015 7:45AM

This is going to end up vaulting my 1968 Topps Football Set into the 10.+ GPA Range ...... That's not even legal in 14 states!

LarkinCollector · April 2, 2015 7:58AM

<< This is going to end up vaulting my 1968 Topps Football Set into the 10.+ GPA Range ...... That's not even legal in 14 states! >>

I don't think it's going to have as significant an impact as people think. It doesn't seem like the bonus points get the multiplier attached to a specific card, just a straight point or two. For your PSA10 pop 1s, it works out to .006 (2/324) each in a set rating bump. For sets with larger divisors, it's even less. Hatch's 78T BB didn't even bump to 10.01.

ETA: If I counted correctly (12 pop 2s and 1 pop 1), Hatch's 78 set should be at 10.017 (10 + 14/805) so there must be something preventing a set from exceeding a 10.00.

TNP777 · April 2, 2015 8:47AM

47 of the 121 items in my Butler basic set are yellow, 25 others are grey.
82 of the 204 items in my Butler master are yellow, 38 others are grey.

What's that prove? I dunno. Guess it's that I'm the only idiot collecting that dude's cards.

edit: and I'm pretty sure my set ratings haven't changed at all.

dytch2220 · April 2, 2015 9:03AM

<< 47 of the 121 items in my Butler basic set are yellow, 25 others are grey.
82 of the 204 items in my Butler master are yellow, 38 others are grey.

What's that prove? I dunno. Guess it's that I'm the only idiot collecting that dude's cards.

edit: and I'm pretty sure my set ratings haven't changed at all. >>

My Bosworth set has 3 highest examples POP 1 and 3 tied highest examples. There is a 0.000 difference in the rating. When I look at the set in edit mode a PSA 10 POP 1 with a 3 weight is getting exactly 30 points totaled. I can't see any evidence of the bonuses being applied yet. On a cool note, my entire Superbowl XXV set should bonus.

Dboneesq · April 2, 2015 9:34AM

<< 

<< So that should mean that ALL "10s" get at least one bonus point, no? >>

No, the pop has to be two or less to get bonus points. >>

Just curious where it states that. In BJs email, all it states is:

and 1 bonus point for cards that are tied for the very best with none graded higher

divecchia · April 2, 2015 9:53AM

<< 

<< 

<< So that should mean that ALL "10s" get at least one bonus point, no? >>

No, the pop has to be two or less to get bonus points. >>

Just curious where it states that. In BJs email, all it states is:

and 1 bonus point for cards that are tied for the very best with none graded higher >>

Hi Doug,

I think it is inferred looking at the 4 samples given.

8 Highest graded (PSA Pop 2) 9
8 Highest graded (only one graded) 10
8.5 Highest graded (PSA Pop 2) 9.5
8.5 Highest graded (only one graded) 10.5

Also when I look at my set under the edit registry, only pop 1's and pop 2 cards that are the highest graded show the gray or yellow highlight area indicating bonus points.

I have a PSA 5 highest graded (none higher), but it is a pop 3 and it shows no highlight for bonus points.

Donato

mcholke · April 2, 2015 10:21AM

<< 47 of the 121 items in my Butler basic set are yellow, 25 others are grey.
82 of the 204 items in my Butler master are yellow, 38 others are grey.

What's that prove? I dunno. Guess it's that I'm the only idiot collecting that dude's cards.

edit: and I'm pretty sure my set ratings haven't changed at all. >>

I just checked my sets and the yellow and gray highlights are there but the ratings have not changed. I went to the screen that has a list of all the registered sets for that set. On the far right, it has "set rating" you can click through for your set and it shows how your set rating has changed over time. I checked several sets and no changes yet. My guess is it will update overnight like the population report and recompute tomorrow.

carkim · April 2, 2015 10:27AM

First of all, I have to commend BJ and her staff for always looking for new ways to keep this hobby fresh and exciting.

I like the recent changes as it adds a new element to set collecting.

Thanks...

epatmythes · April 2, 2015 11:06AM

I like it, it will help add a little competition... but only a little. There are some negatives to consider...

1) PSA is smart, this is good for business. Your set gets knocked down by someone with some low pop cards... how do you combat that, submit more to get a better grade, or at least tie them up to the point that it's no longer a pop 1 or 2 highest. PSA grades more cards, pops go up, prices go down (or stagnate)... do we really win?

2) This could have a potentially negative effect on lower card count sets... think team sets, basic player sets, rookie player sets, etc.

For example, you have a 10 card team set, all cards are rated with a 1.00 weight. Your set has 8 PSA 10's and 2 PSA 9's... one of your 9's, you have because it's a tough card... let's say a pop 6 with only 1 higher... your set rating is a 9.8! Now, the person that has been sitting in second place for a couple years... he has the PSA 10 pop 1 card... but his set contains 7 PSA 10's and 3 PSA 9's... since all cards are commons in the team set, with a weighting of 1.00... they stood in 2nd place all this time with a GPA of 9.7... now, because of the 2 bonus points for the PSA 10 pop 1... they still have fewer PSA 10 cards in their set, but their GPA is now 9.9... and into 1st place!

Nothing you can do about it... except, see #1

It's definitely a smart move on PSA's part... and in general, I like it... but with most things in life, there is good and bad... so it will have some potential drawbacks!

mojorob · April 2, 2015 12:08PM

"This is going to end up vaulting my 1968 Topps Football Set into the 10.+ GPA Range ...... That's not even legal in 14 states!"

I take it all back.
I totally miscalculated on my end.
I won't be sniffing anywhere near 10.
More like 9.53, as I had 50 cards out of 219 in the set that were up graded.

Oh well, It's still Christmas Early!

Dpeck100 · April 2, 2015 9:55PM

I just went through my Wrestling All Stars mega set and I have 29 out of 108 highlighted. It is going to be interesting to see how this impacts the ratings and it might brake the tie in the 1983 set. I need to do some calculations to see.

Edit: It looks like I will get 8 bonus points and brokensoul6900 will get 7.

mcholke · April 3, 2015 2:17AM

It looks like the updated set ratings are pending. I went into a couple sets and went under "edit" and then "add best available card" I could see the pending updated set ratings in green but they are not yet reflected. On a couple of my sets, when I did the add best available, it suggested adding cards with lower grades I have to replace cards already in my sets but with higher ratings. It appears due to slight differences in descriptions, the same card but classified differently in the pop report becomes a higher point card to add to the set.

For example, one card I have is PSA 9 and another card I have is PSA 8.5 but has an extra label as "fielding" so when you go to the pop report, the 8.5 shows up as the highest graded and gets 2 extra points assigned so it becomes worth 10.5 points versus the 9 points in the registry. The PSA 9 and PSA 8.5 are the exact same card in this example but labeled differently and therefore impacting population report differently. I have found this issue on 2 of the 3 sets I have checked so far.

I chose to keep the higher graded card and forgo the artificial point bump.

LarkinCollector · April 3, 2015 2:22AM

It seems to be phasing through some of the sets at least, for the Larkin Master it now has:

Current Finest Possible Set Rating : 10.317

PMKAY · April 3, 2015 2:30AM

I was looking through my sets and noticed a few cards that I have that are POP 2 in PSA 10 for which I've received 1 bonus point. I also have the the second example of these cards in PSA 10 in my collection. It would benefit my score to crack out the second one and send the empty slab back to PSA and have the population drop back to 1. Do that and I now get 2 bonus points for that card.

Seems unlikely that anyone would ever do this, as as soon as other 10s pop it would change again, but who knows when it comes to some of those ultra competitive sets.

TNP777 · April 3, 2015 3:15AM

Basic:

Master:

paleocards · April 3, 2015 3:30AM

If you click on the "What If" feature in edit mode you'll see a table of your entire set with your current grade points and the bonus points added in the far right "Weighted Rating" column. The summary table at the top shows your current set rating, your new set rating with the bonus points added ("What If?") and the "Finest Possible" (which includes bonuses as well).

Cool addition, I like how it awards the best cards graded. Now we can talk not only about our "10s" but our "12s" too! (Sort of like turning the volume up to "11" a la Spinal Tap.)

dytch2220 · April 3, 2015 6:16AM

If you make any change to your set and commit, then change back - it instantly updates your rating to include the bonus. My highest set now has a grade of 11.91.

72skywalker · April 3, 2015 6:28AM

This quote from Spinal Tap says it all, except Spinal Tap was basically a parody:

Nigel Tufnel:The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...

Marty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?

Nigel Tufnel: Exactly.

Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?

Nigel Tufnel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?

Marty DiBergi: I don't know.

Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?

Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven.

Nigel Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.

Marty DiBergi: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?

Nigel Tufnel: [pause] These go to eleven.

PaulMaul · April 3, 2015 7:04AM

Though it will help most of my sets, I think it's a silly change.

ClockworkAngel · April 3, 2015 7:21AM

<< Though it will help most of my sets, I think it's a silly change. >>

+1

Kudos to PSA though. Good for their bottom line. The frenzy will now be even crazier for those low pop cards.

LarkinCollector · April 3, 2015 7:48AM

Retraction:

Dear Set Registry Member,

You received an email yesterday from the PSA Set Registry with the subject line, “Registry News – Bonus Points for the Best.”

After further consideration, the “Pop Tops” changes to the Set Registry Grade Points discussed in the email will not be instituted at this time.

We will formally announce and roll out changes to Set Registry scoring in early June, 2015. Should you have any questions about how the bonus points will be applied, please feel free to contact me directly.

Thank you for your participation in the Set Registry and continued support,

TNP777 · April 3, 2015 7:48AM

Not so fast, my friends. This email just popped up on my phone:

Dear Set Registry Member,

You received an email yesterday from the PSA Set Registry with the subject line, “Registry News – Bonus Points for the Best.”

After further consideration, the “Pop Tops” changes to the Set Registry Grade Points discussed in the email will not be instituted at this time.

We will formally announce and roll out changes to Set Registry scoring in early June, 2015. Should you have any questions about how the bonus points will be applied, please feel free to contact me directly.

Thank you for your participation in the Set Registry and continued support,

BJ Searls

LarkinCollector · April 3, 2015 7:49AM

<< Not so fast, my friends. This email just popped up on my phone: >>

Too slow

mbothner · April 3, 2015 7:56AM

I do not like this at all. I do think that low pop cards should be considered for a higher weight value but this would have to be adjusted across the entire set so that no set could exceed a 10 average. Having sets rated over 10 looks ridiculous.

ymarea · April 3, 2015 8:08AM

I don't like this at all. First, the bonus points are all potentially temporary. They are reduced or removed as other cards grade out equally or higher. Does the existence of a 2nd "8" lower the quality or eye appeal of the first? Nope. Also, why should a "bonus" 8 carry the same point value as a 9, just because it is unique at the moment? Changing pops are sure to alter a card's re-sale value, but Registry value should remain constant, i.e. an 8 is an 8 is an 8.

PMKAY · April 3, 2015 8:48AM

<< Retraction:

Dear Set Registry Member,

You received an email yesterday from the PSA Set Registry with the subject line, “Registry News – Bonus Points for the Best.”

After further consideration, the “Pop Tops” changes to the Set Registry Grade Points discussed in the email will not be instituted at this time.

We will formally announce and roll out changes to Set Registry scoring in early June, 2015. Should you have any questions about how the bonus points will be applied, please feel free to contact me directly.

Thank you for your participation in the Set Registry and continued support, >>

I would love to know the story on how this was announced then cancelled in less than 24 hours.

wrestlingcardking · April 3, 2015 8:54AM

Good move, with the finish line for the registry awards coming up next month it is not proper to change the rules after playing by another set of rules for ten months. By making the change in June, then there is a whole year to have people play by the same rules. I understand it.

PMKAY · April 3, 2015 9:37AM

<< Good move, with the finish line for the registry awards coming up next month it is not proper to change the rules after playing by another set of rules for ten months. By making the change in June, then there is a whole year to have people play by the same rules. I understand it. >>

In an exchange of emails with BJ Searls, this is exactly the explanation he gave.

Griffins · April 3, 2015 9:40AM

<< 

<< Good move, with the finish line for the registry awards coming up next month it is not proper to change the rules after playing by another set of rules for ten months. By making the change in June, then there is a whole year to have people play by the same rules. I understand it. >>

In an exchange of emails with BJ Searls, this is exactly the explanation he gave. >>

BJ is a woman.

detroitfan2 · April 3, 2015 10:52AM

<< I do not like this at all. I do think that low pop cards should be considered for a higher weight value but this would have to be adjusted across the entire set so that no set could exceed a 10 average. Having sets rated over 10 looks ridiculous. >>

Exactly. The set registry already has a mechanism in place to rate the difficulty / value of the card, that being the card weighting. I have felt since day one that limiting the weighting from 1-10 did not allow enough granularity. The weighting should be tied into some value system for the card (even SMR would be a start). For example, a PSA 8 1952 Topps Mantle has an SMR of $250,000, which is more than 1000 times greater than the SMR of a 1952 Topps PSA 8 common. Yet in the registry weighting, the Mantle has a weight of 10 while the common has a weight of 1. Heck, the Andy Pafko has a weight of 9, yet with an SMR in PSA 8 of $55,000, it is one fifth the "true weight" of the Mantle.

True overall set weightings could be improved greatly by going to an individual card rating range of 1 to 100 and basing the individual card rating on some sort of true value (VCP, a true SMR, etc.), and the weightings should be dynamic as card values change. This would not solve all the issues (such as cards that are in such low pop in 9 and 10 that the "ratio" is tremendously different than in PSA 8 which I believe is the grade that is used today to determine the card weightings), but it would be a vast improvement.

While I applaud PSA's attempt to improve the system, modifying the card's "grade" in order to measure "toughness" as originally proposed doesn't work. By modifying the weighting, it would ensure that a set can never have a grade higher than 10, and that a complete set with all cards graded similarly (PSA 8 for example) would have an exact grading of PSA 8.

PaulMaul · April 3, 2015 11:23AM

I don't really understand the whole "weighting" idea in the first place. I thought the idea was to measure the quality of the set, not it's value. A weighting based on rarity might make sense, I don't understand basing it on value. Especially when such considerations are routinely ignored anyway on all but the highest profile sets.

dytch2220 · April 3, 2015 11:29AM

My bonuses are still in effect for now. Wonder if they'll fall off or only if I change/update the set.

DanBessette · April 3, 2015 11:37AM

<< My bonuses are still in effect for now. Wonder if they'll fall off or only if I change/update the set. >>

Wondering the same

GDM67 · April 3, 2015 11:49AM

They revert if you go through that same process.

dennis07 · April 3, 2015 9:40PM

I once saw an expanded bio for BJ Searls somewhere but can't find it now. The below is a mini intro from an article she did. I'd like to add I have found her to always be the ultimate professional.

"BJ Searls is a graduate of Pepperdine University with a Master’s in Business Administration. She has been involved in numismatics since 1973 and has worked for Collectors Universe since 1997. BJ is the Set Registry and Special Projects Director for PCGS, PSA and PSA/DNA."

detroitfan2 · April 4, 2015 2:03AM

<< I don't really understand the whole "weighting" idea in the first place. I thought the idea was to measure the quality of the set, not it's value. A weighting based on rarity might make sense, I don't understand basing it on value. Especially when such considerations are routinely ignored anyway on all but the highest profile sets. >>

PaulMaul, I don't necessarily disagree with you. In many ways, value and rarity go hand-in-hand. I think the weighting should account for the "value" of a card (i.e. a key rookie vs a common) and also for the "rarity" of a card (i.e. a POP 1 vs a POP 20). But at the end of the day, you can expect to pay more for both the key rookie and the POP 1, so "value" may end up being the key indicator that also includes rarity. I am probably over-simplifying, but in my mind I envision using the most accurate pricing resource possible (maybe it's VCP?), where the overall set rating would be aligned with the sum of the individual card prices in the set, and each card's individual weighing would be based on the individual card's price in relation to the overall set "price". For example, if the overall price of a set was $1000 and an individual card was work $2, that card would have a weighting of 0.002, a $10 card would have a weighting of 0.010, a $200 card would have a weighing of 0.20, and so on.

In an ideal world, the registry would be tied directly to the "price guide" and the weightings would adjust as pricing fluctuates.

Bonus points for the best

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