Cabinet friction or wear?

ranshdow

What's the distinction, if any, between so-called "cabinet friction" and circulation wear? Is there a visual characteristic to cabinet friction or light rub that distinguishes the two? It's apparent that some forms of high point rub are considered market acceptable in the MS grades. Below is an example. Note the shine on Liberty's arm, legs, face, etc. The most distinguishing feature of the high point shine on this coin is that it follows the luster.

The coin below is MS64, CAC. It's in my collection, and has a lot going for it. Do you agree with the grade?

jedm

I agree with the grade mostly because there is no AU65 grade... if I had that coin, my notes would say "looks AU65".

You absolutely are right on when you say it has a lot going for it, very nice!

fastfreddie

Looks pretty solid for the grade. So says CAC too. Kind of hard to tell from the pictures but if there is friction it's minimal. Cabinet friction would be from improper storage usually from old time collections. Wear would be from circulation and even mishandling. The shiny areas could be from storage in a leather pouch or something. The reverse doesn't appear to have any shiny areas on the high points which would be the feathers above the talons and tops of the wings. For a 64CAC grade it should have little in luster breaks; if any. Strike looks solid too.

Nice coin.

Freddie

Here's a good example of cabinet friction or mishandling on a nice MS64 coin IMO. Note all the darker areas; the opposite contrast to what you are referring to on your coin.




1877-cc ms64 CAC

Sonorandesertrat

I look for a disturbance in the luster in accessible parts of the fields when deciding if there is faint wear [AU58(+)].

TopographicOceans

Cabinet friction comes from collectors having too many coins. They put them in a flip or envelope and cram them in a box with other coins.
This causes the high points to show rub from being pushed against other coins.

Normally these coins split from AU58 to MS61/62 but the strike on this piece got it a 64, with CAC approval.

Broadstruck

Luster breaks on the high points don't always have to be from rub as a coin can be Mint State and just posses stacking marks.

Being able to differentiate the two has to be done with seeing the coin in hand as it can't be judged from a photo.

ranshdow

Thanks for the comments (and compliments) everyone. Don't get me wrong, I am very happy with the coin. Just trying to understand where the line is drawn on high-point friction.

MsMorrisine

If I could be coin dictator for a day, cabinet friction would be wear and only neglected by the unscrupulous sales people.

Walkerfan

I consider 'cabinet friction' or 'stacking marks' to be wear and find them unacceptable on an MS coin.

Broadstruck

<< <i>I consider 'cabinet friction' or 'stacking marks' to be wear and find them unacceptable on an MS coin. >>



Stacking and roll marks are just part of business strikes struck for commerce as every such coin went through a lot of abuse within the mint itself well before landing in collectors hands.

Baley

Well, technically wear is wear since "how" it got there does not convey with the particular coin when sold, the coin must speak for itself.

Generally, I think of stacking and cabinet friction affecting only the high points of the design, while circulation wear affects the fields, too.

Imagine two identical coins, exact twins to start, and then one you slide around for a few minutes on a piece of paper on a flat table top, and the other you jingle in your pocket with a bunch of other coins, until they both have the exact same "theoretical" amount of contact marks and degree of metal loss from the perfect 70 they both started as, only the first coin has the highpoints highlighted and the remainder of the coin is still pristine, while the second coin has less actual wear on the highest points, but more wear distributed over the rest of the coin, particularly the open fields

The flat paper coin will exhibit classic or "idealized" cabinet friction, while the second coin will display wear more characteristic of circulation. Of course every coin is different, but this is generally how I think about it. I've got both kinds in my collection and find them actually a pretty good value when priced in the AU58-MS62 range.

BryceM

It depends on what the definition of "is" is. Touchy subject with lots of opinions.

To me, wear is wear and the term "cabinet friction" represents wishful thinking on the part of the would-be seller.

That said, I personally feel the significance of wear is overstated. A tiny bit of wear shouldn't be viewed any worse than a tiny bit of incomplete strike. Stacking rub or surface disturbances that happen before the coins ever made it out of the mint is real. It's virtually impossible to find Peace dollars without a little frost disturbance on the high points, even on coins in MS67 holders (but I have seen a few without any). The TPGs all tolerate that up to a point.

Seemingly PQ coins in MS62 holders often get floated around here in GTG threads. Usually these are sliders that are otherwise technically excellent - sometimes even downright gorgeous. The TPGs take a market-grade approach and put these AU58 coin into low MS holders. If you're collecting on a budget, and not too concerned about the number on the insert, a carefully assembled collection of such coins can be a visual treat.

keets

wear, contact marks, cabinet friction, stacking and roll marks are all terms used to describe surface disturbances of some kind. what really matters in the end is whether or not there are any luster breaks.

oih82w8

Good looking quarter...other than that...I have nothing to add to this thread.

asheland

Very nice looking coin!

roadrunner

Nice looking coin. From the photo, the obverse rim appears to have essentially full luster. That would be another check point for a coin that is truly MS64 or higher. The obv rim is a high point too where often that shows wear before the design high points. I have seen MS64's in holders with Liberty's right leg fully plateaued from end to end....but full mint luster and no other signs of rub (Eliasberg's MS64 1861-s half is a good example of this). 85-90% of capped bust halves in the MS64 grade have high point friction of the eagle's wing tips and Liberty's highest curls. A seated or bust coin with full blazing mint luster will generally be given a mint state pass for minor high point rubbing/friction.