Can you help me indentify these ancient gold coins? Updated Pics!

GMan

EDIT: Updated Pics.....

I picked these up today. Not knowing anything about ancients or hammered gold I didn't offer much. They took it so now I have these 5 coins that I need to identify. Sorry for the crappy iphone picks. I can get better ones tomorrow if needed. My scale only weighs to 1/10 of a gram.

First one:



I think it's a 1595 Ducat Netherlands, Zeeland. Weight is 3.4g

Number 2:



I think it's a Justin II Solidus. Weight is 4.4g

Number 3:



Unknown Byzantine? Weight 1.4g

Number 4:



Unknown Byzantine? Weight 4.4g

Number 5:



I have no idea. Weight 1.5g

Any help is appreciated. If you need better pics let me know. Also any thoughts on authenticity and what they might bring would be nice. If they're real is it worth it to send then to NGC or will they sell raw? Thanks!

Thanks for the help so far. Still trying to nail these down but what is posted so far looks accurate. I'd really like to nail down that Valentinian and the Axumite.

Dennis88

I can only comment on the first one, which is indeed a 1595 Dutch Gold Ducat from Zeeland, struck at the Middelburg mint. Weight is almost spot on, and the coin looks good, although I don't think it's worth certifying. Retail value on that is approximately $400.

Don't know about the others.

Swampboy

The second piece is a solidus of Justin II minted in Constantinople 565-578 A.D.

edit to add an image of mine which also weighs 4.4 grams

rev. VICTORIA AVGGGH

lordmarcovan

#3 appears to be a tremissis of Justinian. Here's mine.

#4 is probably a solidus of Valentinian.

#5 is Axumite. (Or "Aksumite", if you prefer that spelling.)

Here is a thread about them on the FORVM boards.

That's some nice looking old gold you have there. I used to own a Zeeland ducat from the 1590s and wouldn't mind having another one day.



<< <i>Not knowing anything about ancients or hammered gold I didn't offer much. They took it >>

Oh, please don't tell me you offered something like melt for them. If so, we're gonna have a major "You Suck" award in the making!

I don't see any obvious red flags when it comes to authenticity, but I think it would be worth the time and expense to submit those to NGC Ancients. (The Zeeland ducat could go regular NGC or to PCGS).

I'd also potentially be interested in purchasing or swapping for one or two of those down the road (especially the Axumite), if the price was right. And I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard. Nice pickups!

CIVITAS

Coin 4 is Valentinian III, Ravenna Mint solidus.

Coin 5 is probably Anonymous Kings of Axum, gold tremissis. The legends are kind of unusual though. Don't have time to look it up at the moment, as we are preparing for the Baltimore show.

We are buyers of such material, should you be selling at some point.

GMan

Swampboy, that's a nice solidus!

Josh, thanks for the confirm on the Valentinian III. I have still not found an image that matches the legend on that Axumite piece so if and when you get time to look it up that would be appreciated. Not sure what I'm going to do with them yet. I may contact you about that when that Axumite piece is nailed down. Thanks for your time and have a good show.

worldcoinguy

Impressive purchase GMan! Great variety.

lordmarcovan

Having been confidentially told what GMan paid for these coins, I hope you will all join with me in proclaiming this special message to him.

GMan

Thanks LM. I'll take it.

I still cannot find a match for the Axumite coin. I have searched every site I can find with photos and nothing matched the legend. It's really got me stumped.

NiceCurrency

that is certainly a varied and fun little group of gold you have there

LochNESS

I think you should mail these to me for closer examination PM and I'll send you my home address

Lovely gold from where I'm sitting.

PS: LordM, perhaps next time warn us if clicking on your link will result in a .EXE file download. I trust you, but I don't trust your computer's internet connection LOL

lordmarcovan

<< <i>PS: LordM, perhaps next time warn us if clicking on your link will result in a .EXE file download. I trust you, but I don't trust your computer's internet connection LOL >>

Funny you should mention that. I clicked my own link from my wife's tablet and got that. But on this desktop PC, it shows the image as it should.

It's nothing but an old jpeg image uploaded here on the forums- a forum attachment from way back when. I don't know why it did that weird stuff. But the forums have been acting strange for me all night, with that CloudFlare stuff. I couldn't send PMs earlier.


Anyway, this was my message to GMan.



And the URL.

http://forums.collectors.com/include/uploadbox/viewfile.cfm?files=UsuckTwister.jpg

So I dunno where all that .EXE stuff came from.

LochNESS

HAHA! Love it. That's a great one

Yeah. Computers are awesome.

GMan

I love these coins. I'm getting a taste for the ancient gold now. I think I'm going to send them to Todd at bluecc for images. (if he does ancients) I sent him an email and am waiting for the reply.

Rejoined NGC today. Before I send them I'm trying to find out if they do Axumite Kingdom. I sent them an email too and was told they would have to ask the graders and get back to me. I really hope they do.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to keep either the Axumite of the Valentinian III. Definitely selling the 1595 Ducat though.

Also still trying to get a handle on what these might sell for. The Vantinian III has a wide range. Cheapest I've seen is $1250 but that is an outlier with the average looking around the $1800 mark or so and some at $2500+ which is a WOW to a small fish like me. That just might be a keeper as I love it and I think I'm going to do a tribute the LM eclectic box of 20 I like so much. Would be a great starter coin. Would love to keep the Axumite but I'm hoping LM and I can make a deal (and it slabs) so maybe it might make it into that box of 20 of his I like so much

GMan

Just heard from Todd and he's going to do the pics! I'm excited as his work is fantastic.

lordmarcovan

<< <i> I think I'm going to send them to Todd at bluecc for images >>

An excellent idea.


<< <i>I think I'm going to do a tribute the LM eclectic box of 20 I like so much. >>

At risk of honking my own horn, I'd say that's also a great idea. The more the merrier. There's plenty of room for more eclectic collectors!

There's a very real possibility I won't be able to afford your Axumite coin after all is said and done. And of course you may want to keep it.

Congratulations again on a very lucky purchase, and if it brings you more into the Dark Side of the Force, all the better!

Stuart

GMan: Congrats on cherry-picking a nice set of 4 ancient + 1 Netherlands Ducat Gold coins!!

I love to hear stories like this of collectors who recognize numismatic quality and value when they see it, and are willing to step up to the plate to make the purchase.

To me, this "Treasure Hunting" and continuous learning educational experience are what I truly enjoy about our great hobby!!

Thanks for sharing your story and coin photos with your fellow forum members!!

GMan

Thanks Stuart. That's what I love too. The thrill of never knowing what you might find and then learning about what you did find is addicting as hell. It's exciting, educational, and sometimes lucrative. What could be better?

GMan

I've found something promising on the Axumite coin at this link.

My coin is a close match to 41b which is King Kaleb c520 CE



Though not a perfect match, it's close. What say anyone?

MrBreeze

Kaleb is correct, I believe.

I looked it up in the Munro-Hay reference book without thinking it was any particular one and came up with Kaleb. It is closest to a type 99. The Munro examples look exactly like yours with the same legend, except for the symbols that are above the busts (looks like a small animal facing left, then a dash, then an A). The picture you provided (41b) has those symbols. I think you have it.

lordmarcovan

Bravo. You've gone from not knowing what an Axumite coin is to being able to attribute one, which is a far sight farther than I would've gotten!

I'm quite impressed. You're not only extremely lucky, but smart, too. There's a winning combination if there ever was one.

When you initially posted these, I said "Axumite!" to myself. I recognized the culture, but that's as far as my knowledge went. I had no clue where to go to attribute such a coin.

It's really a fascinating relic from such an overlooked ancient culture. You've gotta love the aura of mystery and the "road less traveled".

GMan

Thanks MrBreeze for the help! It was exciting to find something that actually matched that legend after days of searching. I appreciate you looking it up.

And thanks to LM as it was he who first called it as Axumite. Without out that I would have no idea where to begin. From there it was only some persistence and luck for me to find that drawing. The photo idea was all his too. I'll post the Todd pics when I get them for sure.

nicholasz219

Being that it is tornado season here in the plains, that picture couldn't be more appropriate.

What a great group of coins. I do not dabble in gold but I like the methodology. See the value, seize the value and enjoy the value when you can keep a piece for free after selling the ones you don't want to collectors here who really do want them.

Super jealous.

GMan

I heard from NGC and they don't grade Axumite coins. Bummer. Going to sell it raw. Not sure what I should ask for a price but I'll probably just list it on ebay unless anyone here is interested.

yosclimber

Cool - thanks for sharing. I had not seen any Axumite coins before.

nicholasz219

What do gold Axumite coins go for? I'm very uneducated on this subject.

MrBreeze

The history of Axum is even cooler than the coins. My memory may be fuzzy, but I believe they were one of the first, if not the first, countries to make Christianity the official state religion. They were an early AD power. Apparently, they are also linked to the Queen of Sheba story in the Bible, or something similar.

yosclimber

<< <i>What do gold Axumite coins go for? I'm very uneducated on this subject. >>


"Common gold types now seem to retail in the US for around $1000 and up."
from a 2014 Coin Week article:
http://www.coinweek.com/featured-news/the-coinage-of-aksum/

nicholasz219

Thanks for the post. The article was interesting and the first knowledge of Axsum that I have. Too expensive for me now, but hopefully a silver example will make it my way soon.

lordmarcovan

<< <i>I heard from NGC and they don't grade Axumite coins. Bummer. >>

Bummer, indeed. I'm surprised. I thought they did. Could've sworn I saw one in an NGC Ancients holder somewhere, but obviously I was mistaken.



<< <i>Too expensive for me now, but hopefully a silver example will make it my way soon. >>

They made some really cool bronze coins with a little gold dot mounted in the middle. Probably some of the earliest bimetallic coins made. Those are really cool, when you see one that has nice patina on the bronze and when the gold dot is nice and bright.

nicholasz219

You are a never ending source of knowledge yourself, LM. I saw in the article that they applied gold leaf to some bronze coins. That's crazy to think of in terms of ancient technology and how much work that must have been for some poor guy.

GMan

I put it on ebay for moon money LOL, $1299 or best offer. Figured I'd let it sit there and see if anyone makes me an offer I can't refuse. There is one other Axumite piece on eBay now listed for $1350 and mine is better IMO. I didn't want to go too low but I don't expect to get $1300.