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It's hard to pull the trigger on ASE's and Maples when you can find generics at these prices.
mrpaseo
Posts: 4,753 ✭✭✭
ASE - $372.95 - ($18.65 ea)
Generics - $345.99 ($17.30 ea)
I understand the resale value of ASEs but $26.96 cheaper per roll ($1.35 cheaper per oz).
Makes me want to pick up a roll of generics
Generics - $345.99 ($17.30 ea)
I understand the resale value of ASEs but $26.96 cheaper per roll ($1.35 cheaper per oz).
Makes me want to pick up a roll of generics
0
Comments
<< <i>16.64 >>
Jebus... $332.80 for a roll.
If spot was at $16.00 for silver. What would you expect in return $/OZ buy selling your generic rounds versus ASEs? Will it equal out or will one generate a better profit margin over the other? I would be interested to read the discussions on this.
<< <i>I guess this is what I always questioned. Why the extra buck and a half premium on ASEs. Why is everyone so happy to pay this extra premium. And most importantly, will you get this premium back when you sell at a later time??
If spot was at $16.00 for silver. What would you expect in return $/OZ buy selling your generic rounds versus ASEs? Will it equal out or will one generate a better profit margin over the other? I would be interested to read the discussions on this. >>
I believe the premiums transfer, when you try to sell you will get more for the ASEs. Why? Because people pay more for ASEs.
SAE is a different conversation as the premium will carry over some what intact. 2nd reason, artificial premium develops for "older date SAEs".
Not possible with generic. So 1996 SAEs will go for more than 2015 SAEs , a bonus that will continue as all sellers of SAEs demand the same action.
Loves me some shiny!
I got laughed at before for saying this, but I still feel it plays a part in it. An ASE is $1.
Silver would have to fall below $1 for this to become inverted, but that does not change the fact that it is a $1 coin, silver or no silver content.
Sooooo with the way the market is being worth more than $1, you have to start at what it's worth if silver became worth leas than $1.
<< <i>Why the extra buck and a half premium on ASEs.
I got laughed at before for saying this, but I still feel it plays a part in it. An ASE is $1.
Silver would have to fall below $1 for this to become inverted, but that does not change the fact that it is a $1 coin, silver or no silver content.
Sooooo with the way the market is being worth more than $1, you have to start at what it's worth if silver became worth leas than $1. >>
OK, I was looking at the maple leafs. Face value $5. Lower downside yet. But I noticed that I can get a maple leaf for less premium than an ASE. Do the Maple leafs retain a similar premium to ASEs?
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<< <i>16.64 >>
Jebus... $332.80 for a roll. >>
.......plus shipping if you buy less than $3000.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>Why the extra buck and a half premium on ASEs.
I got laughed at before for saying this, but I still feel it plays a part in it. An ASE is $1.
Silver would have to fall below $1 for this to become inverted, but that does not change the fact that it is a $1 coin, silver or no silver content.
Sooooo with the way the market is being worth more than $1, you have to start at what it's worth if silver became worth leas than $1. >>
Then why not buy Maples--worth $5 in Canada.
ASE's at 18.65 represent a nearly 20% premium over melt with silver at todays price. If silver goes back to $50, you will not sell for a 20% premium, and you may be lucky to get even 5% premium.
Suppose you have $10,000 for "invest". At $18.65 you can buy 536 ASE or 601 generic 1oz at $16.64. If silver goes to $50 then realistic offers for the ASE would be about $52 worth about $27,872. Realistic offer on the generic might be $48 worth about $28,848. $1000 more. Or 10% better return on initial investment.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
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<< <i>Why the extra buck and a half premium on ASEs.
I got laughed at before for saying this, but I still feel it plays a part in it. An ASE is $1.
Silver would have to fall below $1 for this to become inverted, but that does not change the fact that it is a $1 coin, silver or no silver content.
Sooooo with the way the market is being worth more than $1, you have to start at what it's worth if silver became worth leas than $1. >>
OK, I was looking at the maple leafs. Face value $5. Lower downside yet. But I noticed that I can get a maple leaf for less premium than an ASE. Do the Maple leafs retain a similar premium to ASEs? >>
It depends upon who you sell to. If you sell to a dealer, you never get full premium. To them it's junk silver. If you sell to the same person the dealer does, you will. Simple as that. You want the most silver for the buck, buy bars or rounds. You want the best silver for the buck, buy ASEs. The mint sells ASEs for $2 over spot. The premium is already built in. Impossible to get them new for less.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
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<< <i>Why the extra buck and a half premium on ASEs.
I got laughed at before for saying this, but I still feel it plays a part in it. An ASE is $1.
Silver would have to fall below $1 for this to become inverted, but that does not change the fact that it is a $1 coin, silver or no silver content.
Sooooo with the way the market is being worth more than $1, you have to start at what it's worth if silver became worth leas than $1. >>
Then why not buy Maples--worth $5 in Canada.
ASE's at 18.65 represent a nearly 20% premium over melt with silver at todays price. If silver goes back to $50, you will not sell for a 20% premium, and you may be lucky to get even 5% premium.
Suppose you have $10,000 for "invest". At $18.65 you can buy 536 ASE or 601 generic 1oz at $16.64. If silver goes to $50 then realistic offers for the ASE would be about $52 worth about $27,872. Realistic offer on the generic might be $48 worth about $28,848. $1000 more. Or 10% better return on initial investment. >>
At spot of $15.65 per BullionDirect, there is a 13% premium right from the Mint. The lowest premium out there right now is 14.4%.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Very simple. Because an ASE is United States and a Maple is Canada. I'm fully aware the conversion rate is very close, but you asked a reason why and that's what I'd say it is.
I don't follow Maples but is the premium the same on either coin, or is the Maple higher because it's a $5 coin vs. and ASE being a $1 coin? If they're roughly the same, then I would say buy the F out of Maples over ASE's because if silver falls below $5, which it has a better chance to do than falling to $1, then you're ahead 80% sooner.
Just my 2 cents
<< <i>Imagine having to pay a 14% commission to your broker to buy a stock. >>
Do you think that GM buys parts and materials and hires workers and only sells cars at 14% over the cost of the materials?
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
<< <i>I believe the premium for ASEs is because people just dabbling in buying silver are afraid generic rounds or bars might be not be real silver or might just be plated with silver. The penalty for counterfeiting ASEs is more severe than making fake silver rounds or bars so regular people would rather buy them. >>
The premium for ASEs is because the mint can't make them for nothing. How much below spot do they get the blanks for?
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
<< <i>I believe the premium for ASEs is because people just dabbling in buying silver are afraid generic rounds or bars might be not be real silver or might just be plated with silver. The penalty for counterfeiting ASEs is more severe than making fake silver rounds or bars so regular people would rather buy them. >>
I used to buy prospectors and other generics. After a while, I found it difficult to keep up on the fakes and how to spot them. Pared down to just ASE and Libertads for my holdings.
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<< <i>I believe the premium for ASEs is because people just dabbling in buying silver are afraid generic rounds or bars might be not be real silver or might just be plated with silver. The penalty for counterfeiting ASEs is more severe than making fake silver rounds or bars so regular people would rather buy them. >>
I used to buy prospectors and other generics. After a while, I found it difficult to keep up on the fakes and how to spot them. Pared down to just ASE and Libertads for my holdings. >>
They are also heavily counterfeited---especially the ASE's.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
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<< <i>I believe the premium for ASEs is because people just dabbling in buying silver are afraid generic rounds or bars might be not be real silver or might just be plated with silver. The penalty for counterfeiting ASEs is more severe than making fake silver rounds or bars so regular people would rather buy them. >>
I used to buy prospectors and other generics. After a while, I found it difficult to keep up on the fakes and how to spot them. Pared down to just ASE and Libertads for my holdings. >>
They are also heavily counterfeited---especially the ASE's. >>
By focusing on the two, it makes it much easier to have some comfort in spotting fakes
<< <i>For those who are so worried about counterfeits, what do you think of the Sunshine rounds? They have very low premiums (less than a dollar often), and have the counterfeit technology that is presumably difficult to replicate. Plus they come from the same planchets that could be used for ASEs. And it's a well know "brand" as far as generics go.
If I bought silver, I think I would either go this route or ASEs. >>
Based on the anti-counterfeiting design feature that the Sunshine Minting uses (SI mintmark technology visible with a decoder lens), this bar would be far more difficult to counterfeit than an ASE.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
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<< <i>For those who are so worried about counterfeits, what do you think of the Sunshine rounds? They have very low premiums (less than a dollar often), and have the counterfeit technology that is presumably difficult to replicate. Plus they come from the same planchets that could be used for ASEs. And it's a well know "brand" as far as generics go.
If I bought silver, I think I would either go this route or ASEs. >>
Based on the anti-counterfeiting design feature that the Sunshine Minting uses (SI mintmark technology visible with a decoder lens), this bar would be far more difficult to counterfeit than an ASE. >>
The mint could do that too I suppose. How many people even look at their ASEs? If I buy 5 rolls from a trusted bullion house, I don't even look at them, no reason to really. Someone could slip some fakes in there and I'd [and many other folks] never know it.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
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<< <i>For those who are so worried about counterfeits, what do you think of the Sunshine rounds? They have very low premiums (less than a dollar often), and have the counterfeit technology that is presumably difficult to replicate. Plus they come from the same planchets that could be used for ASEs. And it's a well know "brand" as far as generics go.
If I bought silver, I think I would either go this route or ASEs. >>
Based on the anti-counterfeiting design feature that the Sunshine Minting uses (SI mintmark technology visible with a decoder lens), this bar would be far more difficult to counterfeit than an ASE. >>
The Canadian silver Maple Leafs have a similar anti-counterfeiting thingy don't they?
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
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<< <i>........ How many people even look at their ASEs? If I buy 5 rolls from a trusted bullion house, I don't even look at them, no reason to really. Someone could slip some fakes in there and I'd [and many other folks] never know it. >>
I typically do not check rolls I buy from Provident or APMEX. I do check each ASE I purchase from any other sources and have encountered what I believe to be counterfits scattered in here and there.
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<< <i>Imagine having to pay a 14% commission to your broker to buy a stock. >>
Do you think that GM buys parts and materials and hires workers and only sells cars at 14% over the cost of the materials? >>
Thats not a good analogy on many levels. We are comparing GM stock to silver, not silver to bracelets. We are comparing an asset class to an asset class, not a consumer good to a consumer good.
If you are comfortable owning 536 ASE while I am comfortable owning 601 generic 1 oz. Thats whats makes the world go round.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
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<< <i>
<< <i>Imagine having to pay a 14% commission to your broker to buy a stock. >>
Do you think that GM buys parts and materials and hires workers and only sells cars at 14% over the cost of the materials? >>
Thats not a good analogy on many levels. We are comparing GM stock to silver, not silver to bracelets. We are comparing an asset class to an asset class, not a consumer good to a consumer good.
If you are comfortable owning 536 ASE while I am comfortable owning 601 generic 1 oz. Thats whats makes the world go round. >>
Since the broker doesn't ordinarily own the stock you buy, yours isn't a good comparison either. Even if he did, the $2 premium is already built in. At $15.65 spot, an AP selling at $2.25 over spot would be selling at about 1.4% over cost. If he acted like a broker and was just an order taker, I doubt he could stay in business long by charging $7.95 to broker an order between you and the mint. Someone like Sunshine has to be getting/producing silver below spot in order to add labor to produce silver product and still sell them profitably.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>I'm not sure this $2 built in premium has any relevance in the secondary market. How many older proof sets and mint sets are now only worth face value? >>
The silver ones are worth more than face for the silver coins and those weren't sold on a $2 over spot basis. The only coins sold at $2 over are the regular ASEs. The proof ASEs and all other silver based coins are priced differently. Over time I suppose it's possible that the premium can become somewhat lost in the shuffle. Regardless of whether you buy rounds, bars or ASEs you only make money when spot goes up and one needs to consider one's cost when selling. Still it depends upon your comfort level with the various forms.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
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<< <i>Imagine having to pay a 14% commission to your broker to buy a stock. >>
Do you think that GM buys parts and materials and hires workers and only sells cars at 14% over the cost of the materials? >>
Thats not a good analogy on many levels. We are comparing GM stock to silver, not silver to bracelets. We are comparing an asset class to an asset class, not a consumer good to a consumer good.
If you are comfortable owning 536 ASE while I am comfortable owning 601 generic 1 oz. Thats whats makes the world go round. >>
Since the broker doesn't ordinarily own the stock you buy, yours isn't a good comparison either. Even if he did, the $2 premium is already built in. At $15.65 spot, an AP selling at $2.25 over spot would be selling at about 1.4% over cost. If he acted like a broker and was just an order taker, I doubt he could stay in business long by charging $7.95 to broker an order between you and the mint. Someone like Sunshine has to be getting/producing silver below spot in order to add labor to produce silver product and still sell them profitably. >>
So is this another disadvantage of owning PMs over other assets? It's highly likely that in the future when your heirs sell the silver they will not even get spot. All the premium will be lost. They may not have the same relationship with the dealer as you. Premium is arbitrary, but spot is not. I want the value of my investment based on a constant, and an arbitrary.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
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<< <i>Imagine having to pay a 14% commission to your broker to buy a stock. >>
Do you think that GM buys parts and materials and hires workers and only sells cars at 14% over the cost of the materials? >>
Thats not a good analogy on many levels. We are comparing GM stock to silver, not silver to bracelets. We are comparing an asset class to an asset class, not a consumer good to a consumer good.
If you are comfortable owning 536 ASE while I am comfortable owning 601 generic 1 oz. Thats whats makes the world go round. >>
Since the broker doesn't ordinarily own the stock you buy, yours isn't a good comparison either. Even if he did, the $2 premium is already built in. At $15.65 spot, an AP selling at $2.25 over spot would be selling at about 1.4% over cost. If he acted like a broker and was just an order taker, I doubt he could stay in business long by charging $7.95 to broker an order between you and the mint. Someone like Sunshine has to be getting/producing silver below spot in order to add labor to produce silver product and still sell them profitably. >>
So is this another disadvantage of owning PMs over other assets? It's highly likely that in the future when your heirs sell the silver they will not even get spot. All the premium will be lost. They may not have the same relationship with the dealer as you. Premium is arbitrary, but spot is not. I want the value of my investment based on a constant, and an arbitrary. >>
Unless I die suddenly, it is not my intent that my heirs will get my silver [or coins] if I have any. If you intend for your heirs to get it, then it is incumbent upon you to make sure that they are "informed" heirs so that they get fair market value for the stuff. It depends upon your motive for owning PMs. Mine is to sell for a profit.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
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<< <i>I believe the premium for ASEs is because people just dabbling in buying silver are afraid generic rounds or bars might be not be real silver or might just be plated with silver. The penalty for counterfeiting ASEs is more severe than making fake silver rounds or bars so regular people would rather buy them. >>
I used to buy prospectors and other generics. After a while, I found it difficult to keep up on the fakes and how to spot them. Pared down to just ASE and Libertads for my holdings. >>
They are also heavily counterfeited---especially the ASE's. >>
Other than some coins from Canada, I don't recall even one discussion here about proven counterfeit ASEs.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
I see cohodk posted a nice little pile he acquired in this week's Friday porn.
Good idea.
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<< <i>I believe the premium for ASEs is because people just dabbling in buying silver are afraid generic rounds or bars might be not be real silver or might just be plated with silver. The penalty for counterfeiting ASEs is more severe than making fake silver rounds or bars so regular people would rather buy them. >>
I used to buy prospectors and other generics. After a while, I found it difficult to keep up on the fakes and how to spot them. Pared down to just ASE and Libertads for my holdings. >>
They are also heavily counterfeited---especially the ASE's. >>
Other than some coins from Canada, I don't recall even one discussion here about proven counterfeit ASEs. >>
I've seen fake ASE's dated 2011
His buyer was a "cash buyer" at 1189. each… Oh well, the floor hasn't been reached yet and I wasn't ready to refinance the house and explain to the banker why I needed it all in cash
Opportunity is endless.
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<< <i>I believe the premium for ASEs is because people just dabbling in buying silver are afraid generic rounds or bars might be not be real silver or might just be plated with silver. The penalty for counterfeiting ASEs is more severe than making fake silver rounds or bars so regular people would rather buy them. >>
I used to buy prospectors and other generics. After a while, I found it difficult to keep up on the fakes and how to spot them. Pared down to just ASE and Libertads for my holdings. >>
They are also heavily counterfeited---especially the ASE's. >>
Other than some coins from Canada, I don't recall even one discussion here about proven counterfeit ASEs. >>
I've seen fake ASE's dated 2011 >>
Got pics?
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
<< <i>Missed the best buy yesterday. 100 Gold maple leafs for 3% over spot. Seller was burned out on "losing" in bullion. Some opportunities are greater than others, but I wasn't the lucky guy this time
His buyer was a "cash buyer" at 1189. each… Oh well, the floor hasn't been reached yet and I wasn't ready to refinance the house and explain to the banker why I needed it all in cash
Opportunity is endless.
>>
3% over isn't a great deal IMO. You didn't have $120K in the till from sales?
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
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<< <i>I believe the premium for ASEs is because people just dabbling in buying silver are afraid generic rounds or bars might be not be real silver or might just be plated with silver. The penalty for counterfeiting ASEs is more severe than making fake silver rounds or bars so regular people would rather buy them. >>
I used to buy prospectors and other generics. After a while, I found it difficult to keep up on the fakes and how to spot them. Pared down to just ASE and Libertads for my holdings. >>
They are also heavily counterfeited---especially the ASE's. >>
Other than some coins from Canada, I don't recall even one discussion here about proven counterfeit ASEs. >>
I've seen fake ASE's dated 2011 >>
Got pics? >>
No pics , I held them in my hand though at a local shop they were mixed in with rolls someone had sold him. At the same time an ebay seller about 10 miles away was listing them . There were also some fake Pandas the shop got stuck with off the same source. Both the Pandas and ASE's were less than 27 grams as I recall.
Neither is comparing collectable bars to generic silver (other thread)
<< <i>Got pics? >>
Poor quality pics of the counterfeit, but they definitely exist.