Need help identifying two Anglo-Saxon continental sceattas

EVillageProwler · February 21, 2015 9:05AM

I bought these two a while ago, and since then the Spink catalog has rearranged their attribution numbers. I would appreciate any corrections or comments concerning these. (It's annoying having to update the catalog numbers whenever Spink updates the book!)

[BTW, I only have the 2014 book. I am told that for this stuff, the 2015 book has the same catalog numbers.]

For the first coin, I think it is now a SCBC 791. Here is what my notes for it says:

ANGLO-SAXON, Continental Sceattas.

Struck c. 695-740, AR Sceat (13mm, 1.26g), Series E, Variety J. Dorestad mint. Crude plumed bird with outstretched wings right, cross and pellets in the field / pellet and annulet with trefoil of pellets above and below within square borders. Metcalf 190; SCBC 790K. Good EF, well centered and richly toned.

For the second coin, it should now be SCBC 790A. Here is what my notes for it says:

ANGLO-SAXON, Continental Sceattas.

Circa 730/50-775/800. AR Sceat (12mm, 1.03g). Series E, ‘Frankener’ phase, porcupine var. B (type 4). Mint in Frisia (Dorestad). Quilled porcupine coiled rightward, with two legs above Δ / Beaded standard, with annulet at center and degenerate VICO and pellets around. Abramson p. 91; Metcalf p. 213; North 45; SCBC 790V (788). Superb EF, toned.

Ex Classical Numismatic Group 36 (5 December 1995), lot 1408.

EVillageProwler · February 21, 2015 9:13AM

Interesting note: for the VICO type, it is believed by some researchers to be a degenerate spelling for 'VIC', which is the Anglo-Saxon word 'wic' for an emporium (a dwelling with lots of trading and artisanal activity). An ancient version of London is Lunden-wic. You can see that 'wic' today in names like Nor-wich.

Also, for the 'porcupine' head, it is now simply called a 'degenerate' head. No one really knows of what creature the head represents.

EVillageProwler · February 21, 2015 9:29AM

Also, can someone please identify the Metcalf-# for this Newman coin? (Yes, it is mine.)

EPN III Lot 31296

Weiss · February 21, 2015 10:09AM

I DON'T KNOW SQUAT!

But those are wicked cool pieces, m8!

NiceCurrency · February 22, 2015 5:15AM

<< I DON'T KNOW SQUAT!

But those are wicked cool pieces, m8! >>

lovely toning on these pieces that appear to be well struck

EVillageProwler · February 23, 2015 8:31AM

Anyone? Puhleeze???

Thanks for the nice words, but I really need attribution guidance.

NiceCurrency · February 23, 2015 1:10PM

have you tried asking on FORVM? I'd say they have a much wider audience of experts

Nap · February 23, 2015 10:12PM

1st sceat: Series E, S.790K, Plumed bird obverse, Bar and trefoil reverse, Abramson 87-30.

2nd sceat: Series E, S.790V or S.791 (I'm inclined to favor the later). I'd call this Abramson 97-10. It's not really a VICO piece, but looks imitative

3rd sceat: Series E, S.790D or S.791 (I'm inclined to favor the former). I'd call this Abramson 90-10.

The major reference on Series E is a book by by Metcalf and Op den Velde, The monetary economy of the Netherlands, c. 690 - c. 760 and the trade with England : a study of the 'Porcupine' Sceattas of Series E., a book I don't own. I also do not own Metcalf's Thrymsas and Sceattas in the Ashmolean museum, a classic but also dated work

Dennis88 · February 23, 2015 11:26PM

<< The major reference on Series E is a book by by Metcalf and Op den Velde, The monetary economy of the Netherlands, c. 690 - c. 760 and the trade with England : a study of the 'Porcupine' Sceattas of Series E., a book I don't own. I also do not own Metcalf's Thrymsas and Sceattas in the Ashmolean museum, a classic but also dated work >>

I have (had) this book on a DVD, it was published in two annual publications by a Dutch society in 2009/10 (Jaarboek Munt en Penningkunde #96-97). I appear to have lost the disc since I bought it and haven't purchased a replacement copy yet (thankfully I do have the disc with all the issues of the 20th century (with tons of valuable information) but the update had interesting stuff on it as well, including these books.

If you search seller "decazo1" on eBay and look at international listings he has them for sale (search for JMP 096/JMP 097), it's where I purchased my discs and quite a few books from, just make sure to air the books before you store them as the seller is a heavy smoker and, eh, you can smell that when you get a package.

Now i want to start searching for that disc again...it's gotta be somewhere (I think I left it in a work computer at a place I since left, but I'm not 100% sure).

Dennis

EVillageProwler · February 24, 2015 5:00AM

Nap - the 2014 edition of the Spink catalogue has for Series E these: 790 (degenerate head, TOTII), 790A (degenerate head, VICO), 790B (degenerate head, four pellets around), 790C (degenerate head, four lines around), 790D (degenerate head, misc standard), 791 (plumed bird, misc). There is no 790K or 790V in the 2014 book.

My EPN sceat, currently attributed as 790D, looks like a 790B with some extra stuff so I guess it is still a 790D. Maybe?

EVP

Nap · February 24, 2015 12:01PM

<< Nap - the 2014 edition of the Spink catalogue has for Series E these: 790 (degenerate head, TOTII), 790A (degenerate head, VICO), 790B (degenerate head, four pellets around), 790C (degenerate head, four lines around), 790D (degenerate head, misc standard), 791 (plumed bird, misc). There is no 790K or 790V in the 2014 book.

My EPN sceat, currently attributed as 790D, looks like a 790B with some extra stuff so I guess it is still a 790D. Maybe?

EVP >>

Interesting, I have the 2013 book, there are entries for 790 A-G, K, and V.

EVillageProwler · February 25, 2015 1:10AM

<< 

<< Nap - the 2014 edition of the Spink catalogue has for Series E these: 790 (degenerate head, TOTII), 790A (degenerate head, VICO), 790B (degenerate head, four pellets around), 790C (degenerate head, four lines around), 790D (degenerate head, misc standard), 791 (plumed bird, misc). There is no 790K or 790V in the 2014 book.

My EPN sceat, currently attributed as 790D, looks like a 790B with some extra stuff so I guess it is still a 790D. Maybe?

EVP >>

Interesting, I have the 2013 book, there are entries for 790 A-G, K, and V. >>

I looked in the 2013 book (which, thankfully, I didn't give away), reasoning that the NGC attribution of the EPN coin almost certainly preceded the 2014 book. It seems my EPN coin is correctly attributed as S-790D (786A), which is variety D, Metcalf 209-11. So, it appears my EPN coin is now a S-790B while the other two now are S-791 and S-790A.

So... anyone have the Metcalf book and can tell me on which page of 209-211 this coin exists?

EVP

Need help identifying two Anglo-Saxon continental sceattas

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