Going through Trimes and I'm starting a counterfeit set

Bodin

out of the 19 I searched, I found that these 3 were counterfeits.
I'll post comparisons.

CaptHenway

Love that genuine 1853!

SteveCaruso

Nice spread of counterfeits. :-)

dib

I'm liking that 1860 counterfeit. I have a cool 3CN counterfeit somewhere.. and I think those are pretty tough to find.

coinguy1989

<< <i>Love that genuine 1853! >>



+1

lostincoins

So knowing they are counterfeit what do you do with them? I am always surprised that such small coins in silver are counterfeited. Do you just toss them in for scrap silver and melt them down?

Eclectic

1853 3cS ctfts are relatively tough to find, but your variety is the most common of the two known varieties.
1860 3cS ctfts are relatively common (the most common year for 3cS ctfts is 1861), and your example is moderately scarce.

Keep up the good work on collecting this series by ctft. There are at least 16, and maybe as many as 20 ctft 3cS varieties known.

Sonorandesertrat

Too bad Stone can no longer post here---he was quite interested in contemporary counterfeit trimes.

DaveWcoins

Very cool.

I have to admit -- when I scrolled down and saw that 1853 -- I thought to myself -- wow -- that is the world's nicest contemporary cft 3c silver! It was just a second before I realized my error, but it was a nice thought while it lasted.

Nice cfts, and very collectible.

CaptHenway

<< <i>1853 3cS ctfts are relatively tough to find, but your variety is the most common of the two known varieties.
1860 3cS ctfts are relatively common (the most common year for 3cS ctfts is 1861), and your example is moderately scarce.

Keep up the good work on collecting this series by ctft. There are at least 16, and maybe as many as 20 ctft 3cS varieties known. >>



I know I have never seen the 1853 ctft., and if I have seen the 1860 it was only once. Think it tougher than you do.

TD

Justlooking

I like the fakes and the real ones alike. Very cool.

Eclectic

<< <i>

I know I have never seen the 1853 ctft., and if I have seen the 1860 it was only once. Think it tougher than you do.

TD >>


Whatever! I have 2 more of this 1860 variety which I haven't taken photo's of.

jonathanb

CaptHenway

I seem to recall a thread on here some years ago that had a picture of a contemporary counterfeit trime that had the "C" in the denomination backwards. Can't remember the date on the coin, however.

jonathanb

BTW, what is the value on these, both real and counterfeit, in this sort of condition? If you're going through a group of low grade 3cs and you come across some contemporary counterfeits, are you ahead of the game or behind?

(I have a feeling that the value is "not much" either way, but this isn't my series to know for sure.)

DaveWcoins

<< <i>BTW, what is the value on these, both real and counterfeit, in this sort of condition? If you're going through a group of low grade 3cs and you come across some contemporary counterfeits, are you ahead of the game or behind?

(I have a feeling that the value is "not much" either way, but this isn't my series to know for sure.) >>



Probably ahead of the game by a bit.

lostincoins

Serious question here. What makes counterfeits (not marked copy) of this series ok to collect but counterfeit Morgans are considered bad or even illegal? Does the HPA apply to these counterfeits or do they get a pass, if so either way could someone please let me know. Thank you. Just trying to see where the line is drawn in the proverbial sand as it were.

Bodin

BOB, I think I'd get in trouble if I were trying to sell these publicly. I just pulled these out of a big bag of trimes that I had bought. I don't think the seller realized that they were counterfeits.

BStrauss3

<< <i> There are at least 16, and maybe as many as 20 ctft 3cS varieties known. >>



Is there an accessible reference?

Eclectic

<< <i>

<< <i> There are at least 16, and maybe as many as 20 ctft 3cS varieties known. >>



Is there an accessible reference? >>


Nothing up to date. This is just from my own, personal collection and research. The Flynn and Zack book on Three Cent Silver pieces is out-of-date on this part of 3cS history.

Broadstruck

Does the one 1853 have "BOGUS" written on the obverse?

MrHalfDime

I have an example of an 1861 cast counterfeit 3¢ silver, similar to the one pictured by Jonathanb although slightly different; the star points relative to the letters of the legend are different. Also, there is 90º CW rotation of the 'dies'. I have always been intrigued by the 'economy' (or lack thereof) of counterfeiting such a low value denomination.

SteveCaruso

<< <i>Serious question here. What makes counterfeits (not marked copy) of this series ok to collect but counterfeit Morgans are considered bad or even illegal? Does the HPA apply to these counterfeits or do they get a pass, if so either way could someone please let me know. Thank you. Just trying to see where the line is drawn in the proverbial sand as it were. >>



Under the Collectible Coin Protection Act's emendations to the Hobby Protection Act, there are no exceptions made for contemporary counterfeits.

See: http://www.theblackcabinet.org/collectible-coin-protection-act/

If you were to sell any inauthentic numismatic item, it must be marked COPY as per FTC specifications ("COPY" minimum 6mm across in sans-serif or half the diameter of the coin, whichever is smaller).

This has, as you can imagine, irked counterfeit collectors such as myself. But such is how it is.

SteveCaruso

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i> There are at least 16, and maybe as many as 20 ctft 3cS varieties known. >>



Is there an accessible reference? >>


Nothing up to date. This is just from my own, personal collection and research. The Flynn and Zack book on Three Cent Silver pieces is out-of-date on this part of 3cS history. >>



Would you consider digitally submitting these to The Black Cabinet so that there *would* be a reference for future hunters?

LanceNewmanOCC

<< <i>Very cool.

I have to admit -- when I scrolled down and saw that 1853 -- I thought to myself -- wow -- that is the world's nicest contemporary cft 3c silver! It was just a second before I realized my error, but it was a nice thought while it lasted.

>>



lol - i thought the same thing.
.

Eclectic

This was sold by a well-known, 3cS ctft Post responding dealer not too long ago. Easily the nicest 3cS counterfeit I've ever seen:

AngryTurtle

<< <i>Does the one 1853 have "BOGUS" written on the obverse? >>



Don't know if that's the obverse or reverse, but by George, it does!

winky

It doesn't say much when they start faking the bad looking trimes.

Eclectic

<< <i>It doesn't say much when they start faking the bad looking trimes. >>


Care to elaborate what you mean?

seanq

Eclectic, since you know a lot about these, probably 20 years ago I saw a bogus 1851 trime on a local bid board with the first A in AMERICA repunched over an inverted A. I mssed out on that one and have never seen another. Any chance you know of the variety, or better yet have a photo of one to share?


Sean Reynolds

Eclectic

<< <i>Eclectic, since you know a lot about these, probably 20 years ago I saw a bogus 1851 trime on a local bid board with the first A in AMERICA repunched over an inverted A. I mssed out on that one and have never seen another. Any chance you know of the variety, or better yet have a photo of one to share?


Sean Reynolds >>


Sean, it's one of my white elephants in this series for counterfeits. The only image I know of for such a piece is shown in Flynn and Zack. Clearly very scarce, IMO.
I recently acquired my first 'mule' 3cS counterfeit - a T3 obverse with a T1 reverse. Unfortunately its in very low grade so the date is still unknown. This is the first I've ever seen or heard of such a piece existing. I'll try to find pics and post them here.

seanq

<< <i>

<< <i>Eclectic, since you know a lot about these, probably 20 years ago I saw a bogus 1851 trime on a local bid board with the first A in AMERICA repunched over an inverted A. I mssed out on that one and have never seen another. Any chance you know of the variety, or better yet have a photo of one to share?


Sean Reynolds >>


Sean, it's one of my white elephants in this series for counterfeits. The only image I know of for such a piece is shown in Flynn and Zack. Clearly very scarce, IMO.
I recently acquired my first 'mule' 3cS counterfeit - a T3 obverse with a T1 reverse. Unfortunately its in very low grade so the date is still unknown. This is the first I've ever seen or heard of such a piece existing. I'll try to find pics and post them here. >>




Very interesting, thanks. That coin has always stuck with me, I was in my late teens then and the old fellows who owned the shop with the bid board used to humor my cherrypicking. I would show them an Indian cent on the board with a nice RPD and they would chuckle and say it wasn't really a variety becuase it "wasn't in the book", meaning the Red Book.

Anyway, I saw the trime and I was astonished that such a die variety could exist. I looked into it more and realized it must have been a counterfeit. When I told the shop owner, he dismissed me by saying that the consignor "really knew his stuff" and he was sure the coin was fine. I bid on it more for the novelty than anything else and honestly wasn't too upset when I got beat. In hindsight, it's one of those coins I look back on and wish I had just been a little more aggressive about acquiring.


Sean Reynolds