Dealers and raw coins
puffer
Posts: 535
Should dealers who sell raw and uncertified coins be responsible if they do not grade within a reasonable proximity to the level they assign to the coins? Have full-time dealers ever accepted responsibility by paying for certification if the coin(s) were sold as good AUs and ended up grading as XF details "cleaned", etc.? Does the law recognize the implied contracts in raw coin sales unless explicitly stated? Thanks.
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<< <i>Should dealers who sell raw and uncertified coins be responsible if they do not grade within a reasonable proximity to the level they assign to the coins? Have full-time dealers ever accepted responsibility by paying for certification if the coin(s) were sold as good AUs and ended up grading as XF details "cleaned", etc.? Does the law recognize the implied contracts in raw coin sales unless explicitly stated? Thanks. >>
If you buy raw coins, either learn to grade or get a written guarantee from the dealer. Otherwise, just buy coins that have already been slabbed.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
But all ANA dealers should offer a return policy. Otherwise it's caveat emptor
https://www.omnicoin.com/collection/colind?page=1&sort=sort&sale=1&country=0
Overland Trail Collection Showcase
Dahlonega Type Set-2008 PCGS Best Exhibited Set
Overland Trail Collection Showcase
Dahlonega Type Set-2008 PCGS Best Exhibited Set
After a while you'll learn which dealers are conservative and which ones embellish their grade opinions of raw coins.
If you're like me you'll frequent the conservative ones.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
<< <i>Should dealers who sell raw and uncertified coins be responsible if they do not grade within a reasonable proximity to the level they assign to the coins? Have full-time dealers ever accepted responsibility by paying for certification if the coin(s) were sold as good AUs and ended up grading as XF details "cleaned", etc.? Does the law recognize the implied contracts in raw coin sales unless explicitly stated? Thanks. >>
Sounds like one is setting oneself up for a potential raw deal.
<< <i>The way things are these days I believe they would be smart to not offer a grade opinion. I learned way back never talk grade, talk price. I bought a raw coin recently and grade was never discussed. My kinda deal. >>
Mine too.
When asked the grade, I always said I graded it $XXX.XX
The point was easily made.
Example: Dealer who is at shows just about every weekend sells a Seated dollar at AU bid money, it comes back as XF details, improperly cleaned. To his credit he offered a refund near purchase price. It is one thing if a dealer and collector are agreed it is an "as is" situation at discount due to the dealer not wanting to take the time and money to submit. It is another thing where full money is asked at GS bid. I agree walking away is the smart thing and telling if there is no warranty or buyback. If a coin is represented as a good coin, "AU58" and it comes back as "whizzed", does that change anything? How about a gold coin that comes back as "rim filed"? What level of impairment is enough to increase rights of buyers?
Some time ago I spotted this nice looking 1845 SLD from a decent seller, and won it at auction (for admittedly retail money).
When I had it in hand, it looked nice, and I took some close up photos, which disclosed:
some work on the rims. Returned for refund, less postage and insurance. Coin later sold for a more appropriate price at auction.
My point being that without a firm return policy, you are solely dependent on your own skills and/or the beneficence of others.
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>even hinting to this is unreasonable being that grading is a science that is far from exact. >>
Actually, grading is an art and not a science.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Dealers who sell raw usually have clientele that can grade and they don't want to be forced to jump through hoops just to make a sale to a nincompoop.
I do enough grading submission to generally know what coins will come back at, there are surprises, not that many. And who are these "customers" who know how to grade who do not return anything to the dealers after they realize they have been taken? People who don't want to upset the raw coin misrepresentation scheme because they can afford to? No other collectibles business could operate with such impunity selling high value items without standing behind them.
<< <i>Commerce is a two-way street as is grading. There is a reason reputable grading services stand behind their grading. Most of the collectors on this and other coin boards can grade many of the raw coins put up with images within reasonable limits. The sharper ones can spot problems a mile away. The question is what are the raw coin dealers buying the coins as? Are they so shameless and dishonest as to misrepresent the actual grade levels as well as potential problems and to offer no guarantee of their own as to a reasonable grading service's estimate of grade? And most of these people are like a broken record when asked why they don't send the coins into grading: "I don't want to make the grading services rich"....It's an inside racket, it is who you know there that will determine the grades you get....
I do enough grading submission to generally know what coins will come back at, there are surprises, not that many. And who are these "customers" who know how to grade who do not return anything to the dealers after they realize they have been taken? People who don't want to upset the raw coin misrepresentation scheme because they can afford to? No other collectibles business could operate with such impunity selling high value items without standing behind them. >>
Most collectible business is due to collectors. They make the hobby a business by supporting it. Dealers are in the business of supply.
I'd like a Private Message of the names of the perpetrators, from anyone reading this message board. Thanks.