Joseph C Thomas Coin Collection

BWCoin

Does any one know who was the owner of the Joseph C Thomas Coin Collection? PM Me

savoyspecial

If I answer then I might come off as a real smart ass

BWCoin

Its not Joseph C Thomas that's a fake name it looks like he took about a $9million dollar bath on the sale

Bayard1908

<< <i>Its not Joseph C Thomas that's a fake name it looks like he took about a $9million dollar bath on the sale >>



I seem to remember the catalog saying he sold because he wanted to invest the money elsewhere. If he put the money into the stock market back then, he came out way ahead.

MrHalfDime

"If I answer then I might come off as a real smart ass"

LOL. That's exactly what I was thinking, so I didn't respond.

roadrunner

<< <i>

<< <i>Its not Joseph C Thomas that's a fake name it looks like he took about a $9million dollar bath on the sale >>



I seem to remember the catalog saying he sold because he wanted to invest the money elsewhere. If he put the money into the stock market back then, he came out way ahead. >>




Hard to say. I know his 1839 nd half in NGC MS67 (ex-Knoxville) sold for about 1/2 to 1/3 of his purchase price. His Norweb 1893-s $ in MS67 is infamous as he took the advice of others to dip the coin for a MS68 shot. Didn't work out well at all.

1839 half....the enlarged and full sized blow up photos are rather revealing.

bjamin

My understanding was that he had to sell to raise cash...and from the the way in which his sale went off to the incredibly poor results it had to be the result of being in a money jam... getting 60cents on the dollar or less isn't what most strive for where I come from.

yosclimber

Interesting.
He owned the Valentine specimen 1802 half dime (as attributed by our own MrHalfDime),
and the price fits the ghastly pattern as cited above:
4/2006 $299,000 bought from Steve Glenn collection
4/2009 $195,500 sold (to Eugene Gardner)

This specimen has since recovered a bit, selling for $352,500 last June in the Gardner sale.
It's on the block again in May at the Pogue sale.

jdimmick

I was interested in the 23/2 quarter that he had, it went thru HLRC at 57k at a later time. But buy the time I could get harry on the phone, it sold fast , so I missed out. this was a couple years back

I think I have a jct coin in my collection, Ill have to go back and check the provenance

MrEureka

it looks like he took about a $9million dollar bath on the sale

Was that number actually published somewhere?

coindeuce

If the owner of the collection actually took a $9M loss, I would not characterize it as a bath. More like a drowning, unless the owner was on the Forbes Top 50 list of America's wealthiest at the time.

Nic

RIP

Why bring this up? Many losses after 9/11 as well.

410a

......So, it matters what these "rich guys" pay for coins? I mean money is an object to them? Like getting too close to their Bentley with your shopping cart........

Ahhhh......they probably should have purchased "put away coins" yeah, yeah that's it ! Put away coins.

EagleEye

He bought exclusively though Heritage auctions, always on the phone and was usually the ultimate high bidder, regardless of the price. Later, the sale took place right in the middle of the credit crisis in '08. Everything was unreserved. He needed someone like himself to be the bidder on the phone.

EastonCollection

EagleEye - thats true - anyone that sold during the 08 & 09 credit crisis saw the prices realized much lower than expected. Very bad time to sell but if you were fortunate to buy some nice coins than you probably did well.

Athena

<< <i>EagleEye - thats true - anyone that sold during the 08 & 09 credit crisis saw the prices realized much lower than expected. Very bad time to sell but if you were fortunate to buy some nice coins than you probably did well. >>



Ed Price sold his dimes in 2008. Th so-called "credit crisis" seemed to disappear for a few days during that auction

roadrunner

<< <i>

<< <i>EagleEye - thats true - anyone that sold during the 08 & 09 credit crisis saw the prices realized much lower than expected. Very bad time to sell but if you were fortunate to buy some nice coins than you probably did well. >>



Ed Price sold his dimes in 2008. Th so-called "credit crisis" seemed to disappear for a few days during that auction >>




Not quite. The March-April 2009 low in the coin market was the result of the 2008 banking crisis, which resulted in a stock market low in early March 2009.....very little liquidity around for coins or stocks. So I know what Eagle Eye is getting at here. The Joe Thomas auctions started in January 2009 at FUN. It was a bloodbath.

As far as Ed Price, his early bust dimes floated in just under the wire at the summer 2008 ANA. I sat through that auction as lot after lot brought strong prices. That was also a gang buster show to sell material on the bourse floor. There were ready buyers for quality material at strong prices. By Sept 2008 Long Beach things were already weakening substantially. By the January 2009 FUN show coins were in a strong dive. Recall that gold put in a secondary peak around $900 in July and again in Sept-October. There was even an "after-shock" Lehman spike in mid-Sept 2009 to > $900. Even with the stock market tanking into March 2009 gold was on a rapid rebound from Nov 2008 - March 2009 getting back to $1,000 in short order. But coins didn't get any of that benefit as they stayed pretty much tied to the stock market and the acceleration of the 2008-2010 recession. One could say that rare coins and gold hung on to the very last minute into August 2008. The collector car and stock markets peaked in Sept/October 2007. Oil peaked in July 2008 and then fell to pieces within about 6 months ($147 to $30's). Real estate peaked anywhere from 2006-2008 depending on your area. The banking crisis was felt from 2007-2011.

EagleEye

Regardless of the timing, the idea that you can buy the top quality coins for whatever it takes to buy them and be rewarded within a few years is not necessisarily the case. The problem is, that as high bidder, the best person to sell to in the short term is the underbidder. You need additional players with stronger desires and the $$$ to back up those desires to get higher bids. That is why holding for 10+ years is a good strategy.

We saw this with many of the Garrett coins and we'll see it with the Pouge coins as well.

roadrunner

Yes. If JT was buying top quality coins from 1995-2003 his results would have been much different than his buying from 2004-2008. Which 10 years you pick is just as important.

tradedollarnut

<< <i>Yes. If JT was buying top quality coins from 1995-2003 his results would have been much different than his buying from 2004-2008. He was buying plastic in many cases as that Knoxville 1839 half would attest. >>



Didn't he own the MS68 1878-S trade dollar that I've refused to buy multiple times?

leothelyon

Oh.....you people should not be talking about people like this...........hmmmmm

leothelyon

<< <i>......So, it matters what these "rich guys" pay for coins? I mean money is an object to them? Like getting too close to their Bentley with your shopping cart........

Ahhhh......they probably should have purchased "put away coins" yeah, yeah that's it ! Put away coins. >>




abject

leothelyon

I'd make another point here about.............but...........

ColonelJessup

<< <i>

<< <i>Yes. If JT was buying top quality coins from 1995-2003 his results would have been much different than his buying from 2004-2008. He was buying plastic in many cases as that Knoxville 1839 half would attest. >>



Didn't he own the MS68 1878-S trade dollar that I've refused to buy multiple times? >>



I only sold it once, to HA for about $135K. Made 5% commission on the sale. I can't argue with your assessment of the quality, but a market whore will find opportunities that a numismatic slut cannot. I quickly spent my commission on a damaged High Relief $20 which I easily flipped for another $500. Those nickels and dimes add up. . .