1938-S 50C Oregon PCGS MS67+ CAC What is holding this coin back

lostincoins · February 5, 2015 6:03AM

I would like to know what is holding this coin back from achieving a decent value. I know the commemorative coins have been flat for a while but this with the lower pop numbers in this grade I would think it would be desirable. A MS67 recently sold at HA for 1267.00 Text that has much less eye appeal than my coin, well at least to me and I have not gotten any offers near that. Any help regarding this coin would be appreciated as I feel it is darn close to a 68 with eye appeal. ( for what its worth there is now a MS68+ out there some place so the 68 has been broken) edit to add the coin is CACed

commoncents05 · February 5, 2015 6:12AM

Eye appeal is what is holding your coin back. Granted it is an original coin, but the toning is neutral in terms of eye appeal. Take a look at the 68s on CoinFacts and it'll be easy to understand.

-Paul

lcoopie · February 5, 2015 6:15AM

Discussing a coin you'd like to sell?

valente151 · February 5, 2015 6:16AM

68 is a grade that is earned, not a grade that you are "held back" from, more so in classic commems than in any other series. Comemms are graded mostly by appeal, due to the fact that most were handled individually and contact marks aren't as big a factor as on, for example, a morgan dollar which was bagged. In the high grades, luster and color are most important, from my experience, and this coin lacks the color/eye appeal factor, IMO, for a higher grade, and I'd have to see it in hand to be convinced it deserves a 7+. The coin in the HA link has nice rainbow color on the rim, which, most likely, drove the higher price.

Mark · February 5, 2015 6:22AM

I agree with valente151 that the Heritage coin has significant eye appeal. It's also CAC'ed. And it was on Heritage. I don't know where you are trying to sell your coin. That could make a difference.

Broadstruck · February 5, 2015 6:23AM

<< A MS67 recently sold at HA for 1267.00 Text that has much less eye appeal than my coin, well at least to me >>

Sorry hope your wearing your thick skin today as I like the MS67 HA 1938-S a ton more then your ms67+

lostincoins · February 5, 2015 6:29AM

<< Discussing a coin you'd like to sell? >>

No I am discussing a coin that at one time I had for sale and it was not getting anywhere near the number I felt the coin was worth. That should be fairly obvious from my wording. I will be holding on to this coin for now as I want to see if others come out of the wood work now that a 68+ is out there as a 68 was considered the best you could do. I want peoples opinions on the coin and as I said on what could be holding it back. It has a very nice golden tone and is very flashy with strong luster. I may reimage it to see if I can do any better and add some larger images to help out later. Did you have any other questions or advice on issues with the coin as I asked lcoopie because your comment did not address my question?

BryceM · February 5, 2015 6:46AM

I'm certainly no expert, and least of all regarding commems, but to me it seems the difference between 67 and 68 often comes down to luster and eye appeal. Both should have virtually perfect surfaces. Both should be fully detailed. One will knock your socks off and one will just be really, really beautiful. Some coins just look light they glow from within. Others are just technically nice but don't make you say "Wow".

Grading seems to get funny as coins approach the top handful of extant pieces. Something really has to stand out for the coin to make the final cut. It might just be the photos, but this one looks a visually average 67 that got the plus for technical perfection.

MGLICKER · February 5, 2015 6:49AM

<< but to me it seems the difference between 67 and 68 often comes down to luster and eye appeal. Both should have virtually perfect surfaces. Both should be fully detailed. One will knock your socks off and one will just be really, really beautiful. >>

Justacommeman · February 5, 2015 6:50AM

<< 

<< Discussing a coin you'd like to sell? >>

No I am discussing a coin that at one time I had for sale and it was not getting anywhere near the number I felt the coin was worth. That should be fairly obvious from my wording. I will be holding on to this coin for now as I want to see if others come out of the wood work now that a 68+ is out there as a 68 was considered the best you could do. I want peoples opinions on the coin and as I said on what could be holding it back. It has a very nice golden tone and is very flashy with strong luster. I may reimage it to see if I can do any better and add some larger images to help out later. Did you have any other questions or advice on issues with the coin as I asked lcoopie because your comment did not address my question? >>

I think you just answered your own question.

"It has a very nice golden tone". Unfortunately that is not a strong attribute for an Oregon.

38-s can come with really really nice color and sell way above book. Most come with strong luster.

MJ

Broadstruck · February 5, 2015 6:53AM

Lets say you send yours in a dozen times and it does by luck MS68 which might have you pouncing off the walls.

Comparing it to the two MS68's that commoncents05 posted you'd have less luck selling your example at MS68 then now MS67+.

You'd have to toss your MS68 into a major auction and pray there's 2 bidders that just want it for registry points.

Hope this makes some sort of sense?

lasvegasteddy · February 5, 2015 7:09AM

rainbow toning and premiums paid can be jaw dropping...toss in a bean too
commoncents05 nailed it with yours being of common neutral toning

i'd add to
your image mutes your coin some...the obverse not even being leveled...surely it's worth that lil bit of extra effort
that black background can work for some coins but not yours "in my eyes"
your image is dark too which adds to lack luster in it's imaged presentation

minor adjustment of your coin here to me is more presentable

MGLICKER · February 5, 2015 7:17AM

<< Comparing it to the two MS68's that commoncents05 posted you'd have less luck selling your example at MS68 then now MS67+. >>

MS68 plastic has a $5200 PCGS price guide value. Coin would no doubt easily sell at a huge premium to the coin linked ($1267).

lostincoins · February 5, 2015 7:31AM

I forgot to put in the title that the coin does have a Green Bean CAC sticker on it. I will reimage the coin and use a white background as it has a lot of luster. The images modded by LVT are nice but that is not what the coin looks like in hand under normal lighting. I can do a crazy glamour shot if you all would like that better but I wanted to keep it to in hand as much as possible. I will just do both I guess in hand and glamour and then you can give me an idea.

291fifth · February 5, 2015 8:00AM

Apparently the "market" has spoken. The eye appeal of your coin is quite ordinary and that doesn't bring strong offers.

lasvegasteddy · February 5, 2015 8:12AM

my take was just spruced up to demonstrate the importance of a coins image
hopefully you took no offence there

as i can pull that image if you'd like

i love crappy images of great coins for the bargin aspect
many a sweet coin hides in an image and presentation of it

messydesk · February 5, 2015 8:13AM

A classic commem in 68 has to be able to stop traffic -- every attribute outstanding to perfect. The OP coin falls short of outstanding eye appeal with the neutral toning.

<< Sorry hope your wearing your thick skin today as I like the MS67 HA 1938-S a ton more then your ms67+ >>

I agree with this.

LindeDad · February 5, 2015 8:19AM

That color says aged dip to me and may to others. I used to have several Kennedy's that looked like that and even being TOP POP's they were hard to sell.

MGLICKER · February 5, 2015 8:23AM

<< I forgot to put in the title that the coin does have a Green Bean CAC sticker on it. >>

I like the coin John. The CAC sticker does not mean a lot on plus graded coins as (correct me if I am wrong) only the numeric and not the plus is considered by CAC.

luckybucks · February 5, 2015 8:38AM

VERY nice coin for sure. Should be in a 68 holder IMO.

AUandAG · February 5, 2015 8:39AM

I've had and seen many over the years that look a lot better. At least to the eye. Maybe not the lofty
grade but far more pleasing to view.

Not my cup of tea...

bob

Unknown · February 5, 2015 8:47AM

This content has been removed.

Ablinky · February 5, 2015 8:49AM

It is a very nice coin, I agree with the 67+ grade. However, the coin's luster needs to be more "pounding" and not quite as subdued in order to garner admittance into the 68 camp.

VanHalen · February 5, 2015 8:50AM

<< I would like to know what is holding this coin back from achieving a decent value. I know the commemorative coins have been flat for a while but this with the lower pop numbers in this grade I would think it would be desirable. A MS67 recently sold at HA for 1267.00 Text that has much less eye appeal than my coin, well at least to me and I have not gotten any offers near that. Any help regarding this coin would be appreciated as I feel it is darn close to a 68 with eye appeal. ( for what its worth there is now a MS68+ out there some place so the 68 has been broken) edit to add the coin is CACed

>>

Yours is a beautiful coin that appears like it would be worth strong money for the grade (near $1k). The linked piece was a PCGS/CAC 67 that is also beautiful and may have had two bidders chasing it. It sold for well above recent auction prices realized for similar pieces.

My take would be that are not really lower pop to most people. PCGS has 154 in 67 with 11 finer. Your piece should be worth $900 retail unless I'm missing something.

lostincoins · February 5, 2015 8:55AM

<< Apparently the "market" has spoken. The eye appeal of your coin is quite ordinary and that doesn't bring strong offers. >>

So being that my coin is being considered ordinary ( I have no 67+ coins on PCGS to compare to as they have no images of them) would this coin be a better one considering it is less toned?

BustHalfBrian · February 5, 2015 8:59AM

As mentioned, your coin lacks eye-appeal. That alone can turn a 67 into a 65, or vice versa.

OldIndianNutKase · February 5, 2015 9:12AM

I recall seeing an Oregon a few years ago at a show that just knocked my socks off, until I found it was priced at over $17,000. But the toning was highly variegated and seemed to accentuate the character of the coin. I took a little time and looked at the Oregons in CoinFacts and I don't see where PCGS gives any unusually high grades just because of the toning. Lots of blast white 68's. But there is a HUGE difference in the auction results with the wildly toned coins in high grades selling for over $22,000. The more uniformly toned or blast white coins were lucky to sell for $7-8000 in a comparable grade. You have a very nice coin, and no one here can discern between a 67 and a 68 from photos. But if you think it is better than the assigned grade you should send it in for reconsideration. I don't think the toning constitutes any issue.

OINK

crypto79 · February 5, 2015 9:25AM

Another problem is that while the pops are smallish at that grade level for the 38s one must remember they made these across all the mints for many years. Almost nobody collectes these by date so you have to look at it as a common type coin and common coins will only sell a few different ways
1-Right coin at the right time&place (this happens at shows and dealers stores when somebody walks up)
A) this won't happen to you as you are not a dealer
2- stand out of the crowd attribute (eye Pop, old holder, cac )
A) your coin doesn't really have any of that, decent but not great
3- super grade (top pop for bragging rights)
A) close but not close enough
4- price being cheaper than the other common coins
A) this is your shot to undercut the others but you want strong money

Because you coin doesn't match any of those just be prepared for it to sit.

stealer · February 5, 2015 9:27AM

<< 

<< Apparently the "market" has spoken. The eye appeal of your coin is quite ordinary and that doesn't bring strong offers. >>

So being that my coin is being considered ordinary ( I have no 67+ coins on PCGS to compare to as they have no images of them) would this coin be a better one considering it is less toned?

>>

When it comes to commems in higher grades, I find it impossible to grade them from images. Like the others have said, eye appeal determines these lofty grades and without seeing either coin in hand it's inpossible to give an opinion on whether or not they are properly graded.

@BHB, I think your example is too extreme. A 67 coin that is ugly would sooner get in a genuine holder for environmental damage than get into a 65 holder. Per PCGS standards if they need to net grade more than one full grade point it will be body bagged.

I would like to see a 65 in a 67 holder for eye appeal.

Justacommeman · February 5, 2015 9:29AM

I have zero issue with your coin as a 67+. Technical grade is one thing, but that is only part of the story.

I paid many many multiples for my 38-s in 67. I hesitate to post it as this is your thread.

Mark

roadrunner · February 5, 2015 9:32AM

<< 

<< A MS67 recently sold at HA for 1267.00 Text that has much less eye appeal than my coin, well at least to me >>

Sorry hope your wearing your thick skin today as I like the MS67 HA 1938-S a ton more then your ms67+

>>

I agree. The OP's coin is sort of a uniform drab golden-greenish color....at least with these photos. The Heritage coin has neat peripheral toning with a full rainbow spectrum visible on the lower half of the obverse. Very clean coin too with a sort of bulls eye toning look to it. The 2 coins look totally different despite the few less marks that probably got it the + sign. An Oregon must walk and talk to make MS68. I would imagine that toners in MS66 and MS65 grades are probably very strong sellers too at multiple of bid. It's all about the "look."

msch1man · February 5, 2015 9:37AM

The prices for toned commems are all over the place. The Heritage auction you linked to ended on January 12, 2015 and sold for 1292.50. There was an identically graded coin from a numeric perspective (PCGS MS67 w/CAC) that ended on the exact same day for 881.25. Another thing to keep in mind (that I'm guessing you are) is that those prices include the juice that the consigner doesn't see.

lostincoins · February 5, 2015 10:25AM

<< I have zero issue with your coin as a 67+. Technical grade is one thing, but that is only part of the story.

I paid many many multiples for my 38-s in 67. I hesitate to post it as this is your thread.

Mark >>

Hey Mark post it and anyone else especially if you have 67+ for me to compare as it would be a great help. This is not my series and I am trying to figure out what the most common appreciated look is, weather blast white, evenly toned, bulls eye or rainbow. I will image my coin better most likely tomorrow when feeling better as it actually looks to have little flames on it that are not showing up in the current image. PCGS pop for this grad is not that high and I did not realize that these have so little following (should have for the lack of posting them). If I am reading the pop report right there are only 8 1938-S MS67+ Oregon graded. This was adding to my confusion as it seems most people are only looking at the 67 and not the plus for the pop report. Dang how do I tell which of the 8 coins mine is in the pop standing as I have honestly never been concerned about this befor but it seems relevant to this coin?

Justacommeman · February 5, 2015 10:28AM

As requested. I'm trying to put a Oregon set together but it's tough as many attempt to do this in 67 or better with color. Oregon collectors are fickle especially with color. The Oregon in color or blast white seem to have the most traction. To be honest grades on Oregon's don't matter all that much to me. All about the look.

lostincoins · February 5, 2015 10:53AM

<< As requested. I'm trying to put a Oregon set together but it's tough as many attempt to do this in 67 or better with color. Oregon collectors are fickle especially with color. The Oregon in color or blast white seem to have the most traction. To be honest grades on Oregon's don't matter all that much to me. All about the look.

>>

I believe my coin was on it's way to this but was stopped when encapsulated as my coin is starting to turn at the edges and the gold color is the same as your obverse center. Nice looking reverse as it looks like a sunset.

MGLICKER · February 5, 2015 10:59AM

Gorgeous coin, Mark. Nice to see some beautiful Oregon's today, fellas.

Bullsitter · February 5, 2015 2:58PM

Here's my 67, just to compare.

Broadstruck · February 5, 2015 9:44PM

I couldn't locate my pics of a MS68 38-S I sold but did manage to find the 38-D for now.

The top is my pic when it was in a MS68 OGH.

The lower is the True-View shot raw while being reconsidered by it's a new owner as a MS68+.

lostincoins · February 6, 2015 2:37PM

Beautiful coins guys and having a 68 wow did it get the +?

Broadstruck · February 6, 2015 8:24PM

<< Beautiful coins guys and having a 68 wow did it get the +? >>

Yes it's now in a MS68+ holder but it really needed to MS69 to make losing the MS68 OGH worthwhile.

coinguy1989 · February 7, 2015 3:52AM

While the coin is lustrous, I think the luster probably is keeping it out a 68 holder. Send it to CAC again, asked them to reconsider for a gold bean, and if rejected, you can solicit John Albanese's opinion of what holds it back.

1938-S 50C Oregon PCGS MS67+ CAC What is holding this coin back

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