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Is there a way to tell a 1991 Desert Shield wax box vs. a regular issue?

lamontcarterlamontcarter Posts: 748 ✭✭✭
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
I was looking at the one PWCC has on eBay right now and was wondering how you can tell? Just curious as I know nothing about the issue.

Thanks!

Scott

Comments

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,738 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To my knowledge, no.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • lamontcarterlamontcarter Posts: 748 ✭✭✭
    Thanks Tim. So that would lead me to ask how does Steve know when he's authenticating?
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,738 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Thanks Tim. So that would lead me to ask how does Steve know when he's authenticating? >>



    PSA won't allow DS packs to be authenticated and holdered for that reason. I would expect that Steve would have fairly strong provenance to sell a DS pack (or box) as such. I recall him opening a couple packs to confirm at one point.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • lahmejoonlahmejoon Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭✭
    I believe he pulls a sample of packs out of the box and opens them. If they contain DS, then the presumption is the entire box contains DS packs
  • lahmejoonlahmejoon Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭✭
    Tim beat me to the punch! image
  • lamontcarterlamontcarter Posts: 748 ✭✭✭
    Thanks guys. Appreciate that. Learned something new.
  • ergoismergoism Posts: 315 ✭✭✭
    I haven't confirmed this but I was told there may be a way to check the pack with a black light or something similar that would somehow reveal the shield on one of the cards showing. Anybody happen to have any DS packs and funky lights laying around?
  • vols1vols1 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭
    I assume the box is just a put-together of loose packs. The only way to know for sure is open a sealed case which was marked on the outside.

    https://kennerstartinglineup.blogspot.com/

  • DialjDialj Posts: 1,636 ✭✭
    Here is a picture of the two 1991 Topps Desert Shield wax boxes I have. The one on the right is verified by Steve at BBCE and the one on the left, well I've had it since 1991. It is not verified by Steve, but I had it shrink wrapped. The boxes look exactly like the regular issue counterpart boxes. I have never heard of the black light test, but several years ago there was a discussion about trying to detect the "shield" with some sort of metal detector.

    image
    "A full mind is an empty bat." Ty Cobb

    Currently collecting 1934 Butterfinger, 1969 Nabisco, 1991 Topps Desert Shield (in PSA 9 or 10), and 1990 Donruss Learning Series (in PSA 10).
  • ZachWheatZachWheat Posts: 8 ✭
    Just to clarify. Apologies for resurrecting an older thread but I am new to the forum and don't visit often. In fact, this is my 3rd post.

    Actually there is a method to determine with a high degree of accuracy whether a pack of cards contains DS cards or not. This was originally discussed on N54. The original posts can be found in archives as well as a normal search. Permit me a little liberty in summarizing some deduced & assumed to be true facts about the set. DS cards were produced in a relatively short print run somewhere near the end of the print run - maybe 80% of the way through the normal 1991 Topps print run. This information was inferred from the time cards were sent overseas (per Topps press releases by Timm Boyle et al) as well as the % of changes that made it into the DS set from the total % of all changes made in the 1991 Topps base set. We are relatively certain of this since there are no known legitimate DS variations (ie stat variations, etc. that are not faked) - only print variations. Even the dual sheet variations (A*B* or E*F*, etc. ) known to exist in the normal 1991 Topps issue don't exist in DS cards. And according to checklists found on an actual sheet of DS cards, the true DS checklists differ over the 1991 normal Topps checklists, in that they are the "uncorrected" versions (checklists for both sets do not have a shield embossed on the front - therefore, the only way to tell DS checklists from normal 1991 issue checklists is if they are the uncorrected version). Unfortunately, both corrected & uncorrected checklists are now listed as DS checklists.

    Some time during the 1991 Topps print run, but prior to printing DS cards, Topps changed the bright day-glow orange-ish ink bordering the cards to an ink with a fluorescent brightener. This means the edges of almost all DS cards will fluoresce under a black light (See the attached scan). If you are in a dark room, you can see the fluorescing orange ink under the wrapper on the back of the cards. In part, it is this method which Steve @ BBCE uses to verify the legitimacy of true DS packs.

    Please note not all DS cards have an orange border which fluoresces under black light - only a statistically significant percentage do. After personally reviewing some 8,000 DS cards, 99.8% of them were found to have a fluorescing border - but not all. This means that you can determine with a high probability that if the back doesn't glow, it probably isn't a DS card. If you are considering buying a DS card where the orange ink around the border (not the "40th Anniversary" logo) does not glow under black light - be wary.

    All the Best,


    Z
  • ZachWheatZachWheat Posts: 8 ✭
    Sorry guys trying to add a pic....unclear why it is not adding it to the post.....the pic is only 8 KB
  • LittletweedLittletweed Posts: 623 ✭✭✭
    Upload the pic to photobucket or other image hosting site and copy the link to the "URL for the image" after clicking on the picture tab.
    Matt

  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi Zack, thanks for the post. I believe I'm familiar with the N54 post you're referring to. I thought there were some non-DS cards that were found to glow as well?

    Also, it's my understanding that Steve Hart was able to authenticate his boxes by actually opening a few random packs. I don't recall any mention of him using the fluorescent method. Do you recall where you read/heard that?

    Thanks!
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    It is extremely easy to detect the Desert Shield cards. Get a stud finder and hover it over where the emblem is.
  • RipublicaninMassRipublicaninMass Posts: 10,051 ✭✭✭


    << <i>It is extremely easy to detect the Desert Shield cards. Get a stud finder and hover it over where the emblem is. >>



    Won't that just show where the Chipper Jones is?


  • DialjDialj Posts: 1,636 ✭✭
    RipublicaninMass,

    MULLINS5 loaned me his stud finder and yep it works.

    image
    "A full mind is an empty bat." Ty Cobb

    Currently collecting 1934 Butterfinger, 1969 Nabisco, 1991 Topps Desert Shield (in PSA 9 or 10), and 1990 Donruss Learning Series (in PSA 10).
  • ZachWheatZachWheat Posts: 8 ✭


    << <i>Hi Zack, thanks for the post. I believe I'm familiar with the N54 post you're referring to. I thought there were some non-DS cards that were found to glow as well?

    Also, it's my understanding that Steve Hart was able to authenticate his boxes by actually opening a few random packs. I don't recall any mention of him using the fluorescent method. Do you recall where you read/heard that?

    Thanks! >>



    image

    Here is another attempt at a pic. Yes, that is a true statement. Some DS cards glow (unknown %) as well. Maybe someone with a stash of 1991 Topps regular issue can verify a %...

    However, since most DS cards have a flourescent or glowing border on the back, you can only use this to likely eliminate non-DS cards. The reverse does not hold true.....ie just because a card has a glowing back, doesn't mean it is a legit DS card.

    I've never heard about the stud finder method of determining whether foil cards are inside....nice Chipper cards

    Z
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