Any idea what possessed PSA to add the "Hit to Win" game card to the 1980 Topps baseball B
Gemyanks10
Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭
Hello everyone. I was looking through my inventory and sets earlier and noticed that the 1980 Topps baseball "Basic Set" went from 726 cards to 727 cards. The culprit? An advertisement/game card that was only produced at the tail end of the 1980 Topps production run. What gives? The "Name in Yellows", the Greg Pryor NNOF etc are underneath the "Master Set" which is correct, why shouldn't this "Hit to win" game card be?
If this is the case and they are going to do this with 1980, are they going to add all the advertisement cards to the basic sets of other years of Topps in the 1980's? I believe from 1984 and on there was like 4-5 a piece and one was included in every pack! At least with 1980, no advertisement card or game card was included in standard packs until almost the end of the year.
And I've read prior threads where there are many variations to some of these advertisement cards etc in the late 1980's. This could get interesting.
Is there anyone with any kind of guess as to why a game card, that was only produced for a short time at the end of 1980, would be included in the 1980 Topps "Basic Set'? I understand there are bigger worries in the world. This very much strikes a cord with me though and I'm annoyed. At least with 1981, the game card was always present in packs as far as I know. Others may know more.
Any ideas? Thanks for letting me vent. Doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me...it's a freakin game card.
If this is the case and they are going to do this with 1980, are they going to add all the advertisement cards to the basic sets of other years of Topps in the 1980's? I believe from 1984 and on there was like 4-5 a piece and one was included in every pack! At least with 1980, no advertisement card or game card was included in standard packs until almost the end of the year.
And I've read prior threads where there are many variations to some of these advertisement cards etc in the late 1980's. This could get interesting.
Is there anyone with any kind of guess as to why a game card, that was only produced for a short time at the end of 1980, would be included in the 1980 Topps "Basic Set'? I understand there are bigger worries in the world. This very much strikes a cord with me though and I'm annoyed. At least with 1981, the game card was always present in packs as far as I know. Others may know more.
Any ideas? Thanks for letting me vent. Doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me...it's a freakin game card.
Always looking for OPC "tape intact" baseball wax boxes, and 1984 OPC baseball PSA 10's for my set. Please PM or email me if you have any available.
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Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Definitely should not be in the basic set as you said, the game card only came in the packs with Hit to Win wrappers at tail end of 1980. >>
Exactly, and carried over into 1981 I thought which was the start of advertisement/game cards in every pack up until 1992 I believe. I'm about to look, but is the "Hit to Win" card a part of the "Basic or Master Set" of 1981? I haven't opened many 1982 or 1983 packs yet, I know I'm still an amateur, but in 1984, there are 4 or 5 different advertisement cards if I remember right. I opened a lot of these packs back in the day before I stopped collecting as it is the year I was born and can remember buying lots of wax packs at card shows back in the early-mid 90's looking to build the set. I say that if they are going to do this with 1980, let's do it for every year in which they were included in packs. At least with the mid-late 80's, the advertisement cards are way more plentiful and easier to find.
<< <i>Agreed, this should only be in the Master. Perhaps PSA assumed these were inserted in all packs like other 80s sets? >>
I honestly don't know, but would hope that they would know better. These 1980 "Hit to Win" packs, are scarce compared to a standard pack. I guess I'm just assuming that PSA is supposed to know these things. Maybe an inquiry e-mail is in order? I don't mind competitiveness and the difficulty that comes with the registry and working on these "quality control lacking sets", but in my eyes, things need to make sense and this doesn't.
PSA 6 Hit to Win card
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I wonder if this seller had any bearing on this addition. Read the description at bottom of listing. >>
I'm sure he did, but then how is PSA and SCD recognizing the 1980 Hit to Win, and not the 1981? I'm very lost here. In 1980, these were produced, as stated above, and as stated by this particular seller, in very limited quantities. They were only produced at the tail end of the production run. How is this granted into the 1980 Topps basic set? it wasn't an everyday, run-of-the-mill, Jim Bibby or Duane Kuiper card,
It was an advertisement card that's unnumbered, features no players, and has nothing to do with the rest of the set. It is not a variation, a short print, a double print, etc. LOL.
And for some reason isn't recognized in 1981, and no other advertisement cards are recognized in any other 1980's-1990's Topps set. There's a rat in Denmark and I'm not buying into this. What makes the 1980 Hit to Win special compared to the 1981?
Thanks for showing me that Tim, it's just a cluster.
Jimmy
<< <i>Master Set yes, Basic set no. >>
I agree, so long as they do it with all the other years in which Topps packs contained these game/advertisement cards. Why single out 1980? Let's go all in or not at all.
<< <i>
<< <i>Agreed, this should only be in the Master. Perhaps PSA assumed these were inserted in all packs like other 80s sets? >>
I honestly don't know, but would hope that they would know better. These 1980 "Hit to Win" packs, are scarce compared to a standard pack. I guess I'm just assuming that PSA is supposed to know these things. Maybe an inquiry e-mail is in order? I don't mind competitiveness and the difficulty that comes with the registry and working on these "quality control lacking sets", but in my eyes, things need to make sense and this doesn't. >>
I sincerely doubt the 'pack people' at PSA and the 'card people' even communicate, much less with the 'registry people'. No knock on the company or their organizational structure, it's just what happens when a company gets large enough that people have specialized jobs.
I also propose that they could be part of the Basic Sets from 81-whenever they stopped issuing them, if included in every pack issued. They're definitely something that should be part of the Master Sets. I know I keep all the variations of the ad inserts along with my sets (along with a copy of a wrapper and any wrapper variations) for the years that have them; 1989/1990 is are really tough ones w/at least a dozen different fronts and two different cardstocks (1989 also had blank back/grey cardstock in the Topps Big with the same fronts). I would bet if graded and requested, they would be added for the other years as well.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I sincerely doubt the 'pack people' at PSA and the 'card people' even communicate, much less with the 'registry people'. No knock on the company or their organizational structure, it's just what happens when a company gets large enough that people have specialized jobs.
I also propose that they could be part of the Basic Sets from 81-whenever they stopped issuing them, if included in every pack issued. They're definitely something that should be part of the Master Sets. I know I keep all the variations of the ad inserts along with my sets (along with a copy of a wrapper and any wrapper variations) for the years that have them; 1989/1990 is are really tough ones w/at least a dozen different fronts and two different cardstocks (1989 also had blank back/grey cardstock in the Topps Big with the same fronts). I would bet if graded and requested, they would be added for the other years as well. >>
That's an interesting point. I don't think about these things sometimes. There are different departments, and I'm sure communication is lacking sometimes just like any other business, but to just up and up add a card to the "basic set", which isn't even really a card is kind of a blunder if you ask me. I'm trying to stay politically correct here, because I don't want to get in hot water, but this is a non-player card which doesn't depict the likeness of any player, it's unnumbered, it isn't really designated on any checklist (I say "isn't really", because I guess SCD recognizes it now). I'm all for this card being added to the Master set of 1980 Topps. It will generate more competitiveness to those that are working on the set, and will give them something else to watch for. When a PSA 10 POP 1 lands from 4SC, I can only imagine what it will sell for. Mucho Dinero...it's good for the economy
And yes, since this card is in place for 1980 and was only included in late packs, it should be master set. 1981 it should be basic set since it was in every pack...and every advertisement card complete with their respective variations should be added to every 1980's-early 1990's Topps set which is effected. I really don't have a problem with any of this, it creates more of a hunt etc, but proper placement of these cards within these sets is imperative.
Edited to add that to prevent further confusion like this, maybe they should reach out to the respective set collectors or experts for help? My set isn't listed so as far as anyone knows, I don't collect 1980, but there are many knowledgeable people that can help to prevent blunders like this both on these boards as well as guys collecting the set.
<< <i>That's an interesting point. I don't think about these things sometimes. There are different departments, and I'm sure communication is lacking sometimes just like any other business... I'm trying to stay politically correct here, because I don't want to get in hot water....
Edited to add that to prevent further confusion like this, maybe they should reach out to the respective set collectors or experts for help? My set isn't listed so as far as anyone knows, I don't collect 1980, but there are many knowledgeable people that can help to prevent blunders like this both on these boards as well as guys collecting the set. >>
I work for a multi-national (w/our own to be expected internal communication issues) consulting to other very large businesses. It's amazing how many times I have to make introductions between two people who work at the same company in different departments, so is frequently on my mind
I think the thought process is, we have a request to process so add it. If there are any issues, someone collecting the set will bring it up and we can address it then and if not, problem resolved. Perhaps the time and effort to do as you suggest is greater than it would be for the occasions they have to correct issues.
<< <i>IMHO, inserts, nevermind game pieces, by definition, should not be considered part of the "base set." Especially when the game piece is found in (at best) 10% of the packs produced by the manufacturer. The Hit To Win packs cannot be found in a box with the standard "15 cards" wrapper packs. >>
With all of the countless paragraphs that I wrote, it could have been simplified to just this. I agree wholeheartedly with this statement Tim.
<< <i>I work for a multi-national (w/our own to be expected internal communication issues) consulting to other very large businesses. It's amazing how many times I have to make introductions between two people who work at the same company in different departments, so is frequently on my mind The first paragraph of my last post was carefully worded to, hopefully, avoid the hot water as well.
I think the thought process is, we have a request to process so add it. If there are any issues, someone collecting the set will bring it up and we can address it then and if not, problem resolved. Perhaps the time and effort to do as you suggest is greater than it would be for the occasions they have to correct issues. >>
I totally understand that. I work for a corporation as well, CSX Railroad..the BNSF/UP of the east coast and there are mis-communications everyday to the point of people accidentally messing things up and it wasn't their fault because they were told to do the job a certain way, but the way they were told is wrong...if that makes sense lol.
I could see that being their thought process, as I'm sure they are extremely busy and the last thing on their minds is the controversy surrounding the 1980 Topps baseball set because of the addition of a 34 year old scratch off ticket. BUT, it's not kosher, and I will see about a friendly click of a mouse of that over to the Master Set. It's where it truely belongs...it will settle right in snug with the "name in yellows"..The Mr. Pryor NNOF which I've never even seen, I can only imagine how scarce that is, etc. I will attenpt to contact customer service tomorrow, or perhaps an email explaining the situation in detail would be better?
Now, unfortunately, PSA has a history of "Adding a card to the end of a set that doesn't belong" and here is an example:
2007 Topps Allen & Ginter basic set of 350 cards with a framed original as card #351
2008 Topps Allen & Ginter basic set of 350 cards with 2 added cards at the endfor #352 total
Lots of sets are like this, but not typically for advertisement cards.
Later, Paul.
<< <i>I'm the collector that actually requested the 1980 Topps Master set. I seen that there was no spot for the "Name in Yellow" variations, so I thought that since we had just the basic set where you can list just the "Basic 726 cards" we should have a "Master set" where you can list all of the extra junk, including any new cards that do not belong in the basic set that have some sort of variation from the original 726 cards. This advertisement card does not belong in the Basic set at all, as it is not part of the basic set of the 726 players, highlight cards, team cards, checklists, or league leaders.
Now, unfortunately, PSA has a history of "Adding a card to the end of a set that doesn't belong" >>
Well, first off thank you for taking the time to request the "Master Set" for 1980 Topps. I'm a very serious collector of it and am glad that others admire it as well. I agree with your sentiments as well Paul. I didn't start this thread solely to complain, but also to gather other ideas and insight as to way PSA might have done this. Pretty much, all that responded to this thread are the "Board's Core" and they all seem to agree as like I said, maybe I was missing something.
As stated above, I find it funny that this card was added to the 1980 base set, but the 1981 version hasn't or any other years for that matter. The link to the auction posted above grinded my gears as well, because right in the description of the auction was stated that these game cards are scarce and don't come from an everyday run of the mill pack. Also as Tim stated above, 10% or less of these were produced in the market in 1980. I don't know what else to say accept it's wrong and I will try to contact or e-mail customer service this week.
The Allen and Ginter sets you listed are the same exact scenario with what's going on here. Proper placement of these cards within their righteous sets is imperative.
Thanks for reading,
Jimmy
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
You may be thinking that this doesn't pertain to me because I don't collect the 1980 topps baseball set, only this and that set. Well I have news for you my collecting friends, if this is allowed to stay and doesn't get rectified by removal and proper placement in the "master" set, it won't be long before "Profit Billy Joe Jim Bob" comes along and sees that a set is missing these advertising cards and they WILL be added to the sets you DO collect.
Then what???
P.S. if this card stays, it looks like I will be stuck at 1 short for a very long time. I wouldn't waste $1.00 to add that stupid card to my set.
Later, Paul.
Also, I now notice that under the 1980 Topps "Master Set", there are 2 variations of the "Hit to Win" game card. A normal everyday one, and one "with a star"? Any idea what this means? I know that for this year in particular, the "Hit to Win" game cards are scarce to begin with, I can only imagine how difficult a variation might be, but it will be fun to try and track one down.