Help with Mintages for Early Canadian & Pre-Confederation Specimen Coinage

TomB

The title pretty much sums up my request. I have not been able to find definitive mintage data for the early specimen coinage and at the just finished FUN show I spoke with some Canadian dealers who could not point me in the proper direction, either. So...might anyone be able to help with either data or references? Thank you in advance.

1960NYGiants

In my 40+ years of collecting Canadian coins, I've never seen mintage reports for the early specimen issues. Charlton just states "included" with the business strikes.

Maybe if someone had access to the actual RCM mintage records the mintages might be reckoned.

7Jaguars

As the Royal Mint did not seem to keep such records for even GB pieces, this would likely be information that does not exist, if that makes sense.

syl

I know that Rob Turner spent time at the Royal Mint going through all the old records when writing his book(s) on the 1858 Large Cents. The first book also included info on the rest of the 1858 coinages, but I don't recall anything on specimens. If he doesn't chime in here, I'll email him and ask if it's anything that he noted while there. He may recall something.

coinkat

It's doubtful records were kept.

bosox

It is correct that no records were kept regarding the mintages of early specimen coins. In my first book (on 1858 cents) I presented some estimates on 1858 specimen mintages based on the number of cases ordered by the mint.

TomB

Thank you all for your time and effort. It appears that contemporary data might not have been saved, which is a darn shame if true. It also appears that aside from some years like 1908 and 1937 that all the earlier specimen coins and pre-confederation or provincial coins were struck with much smaller mintages.

The following 1919-C Newfoundland SP64BN is the reason why I asked. It has a total PCGS population of three and a total ICCS population of two after a combined fifty-odd years of certification by these two companies. Additionally, Heritage has offered a total of zero of these in their years of operation. The coin is in a PCGS OGH and looks to be undergraded, but that is the least of my concerns.

syl

I think that your "half-dozen" or so for all years except 1909 and 1937 to be way low. In Rob's book, he estimates that there were 60 or so specimen sets for 1858 .. based upon the number of cases that were ordered. Some of those cases may have been just presentation pieces and not specimens. Rob also wrote a large tretise on the 1876 to 1920 Victoria cents as well and has some great info in it, and not just for circulating coinage. In your initial post, you said preconfederation coins which narrows it down to 1858 & 59. You've got specimen coinage for many more years than what you mention. You should talk to Rob direct. Here is his website:
http://www.victoriancent.com/coin-info.html

7Jaguars

Wow, good information there Syl!

I have a specimen GB 1922 penny in NGC64BN that has even less marks & have seen pieces looking similar to that just posted at 62 or 63. Let's not go there with matte coin grading by either major service!

TomB

Triple post.

TomB

Perhaps I used the term pre-confederation incorrectly, but thought it would also apply to areas such as Newfoundland that remained separate from Canada until 1949. My estimate on production was based upon a note that I made when reading either Charlton or Haxby, but at this time I cannot find it in the references so it must be a mistake on my part.

I've seen in-hand the piece in this thread and it is not a 62 or 63.

TomB

Triple post.

7Jaguars

My point was that it may look like it, but they are not nice to sim. copper. The '22 I spoke of has even fewer marks then that piece. Or the companion half p and farthing. A bit apples and oranges, but you should see the 1951 matte half crown pcgs graded at "61"!