Seems that a much larger portion of Ebay sales are being returned...

MGLICKER · January 12, 2015 2:54AM

....as mid priced coins continue to drop in value.

4 out of 10 recent sales coming back seems high.

More of an observation than a gripe, though the Ebay return system is a tangled mess that only Rube Goldberg could appreciate....at least though his devices worked.

Jinx86 · January 12, 2015 2:57AM

Mine have remained stable at about 4-6% returns a month, with an average of 35 sales a day its quite small but noticeable. 95% of those returns are jewelry items.

MGLICKER · January 12, 2015 3:01AM

Took the gentleman today 10 days after delivery to decide that the NGC net graded-cleaned (noted in title) Morgan was not as described and did not fit his set.

Always happy to take back a coin.....but getting whacked for 2 way shipping is insane.

Jinx86 · January 12, 2015 3:07AM

Only way to look at it is a write off for next year and move on. I still say the most troublesome items are lower dollar amounts where people think they are getting something amazing for cheap.

jdimmick · January 12, 2015 3:20AM

My biggest problems with returns is :
1) I always over described mine to the point where I downplay it even if its marginal. But I will still have people buy it and pay too much thinking they might have a chance on getting a better piece than I have described it as. Trust me if , if I say the coin sucks, then it flat sucks.

2) People (especially habitual returners) know how to use and abuse the ebay return system so that you the seller has to pay the return shipping by filing so sort of not as described, when the fact is they just either want to get a closer look, or decided they just didn't want the coin.

My returns percentage has remained about the same, although sometimes it does come in spurts.

AMRC · January 12, 2015 3:30AM

Yes, I recently had two Details Coins - come back. The first one was from what I am pretty sure was a dealer; he said "I did not know it was cleaned." It was beyond the 15 days, and I still took it back. I had another one just come back in the mail with no return filed. This was another cleaned details coin (clearly labeled with good photos) and it was bought by a dealer. I got the return notice days later and did the refund.

It is my clearly unsubstantiated hunch that they were both looking for coins that they could get good deals on and perhaps have the "details" issue "overlooked" in the selling process.

Sounds like a good way to make a profit, but it sure sucks up my time and since I found it all a bit insincere, I blocked them both.

MGLICKER · January 12, 2015 3:31AM

"""2) People (especially habitual returners) know how to use and abuse the ebay return system so that you the seller has to pay the return shipping by filing so sort of not as described, when the fact is they just either want to get a closer look, or decided they just didn't want the coin."""

Problem as well is that the Ebay system keeps changing so a legitimate purchaser does really not know how to enter the request.

Seemed to work without a problem when the buyer just sent an email regarding a return.

Not a big deal......just wanted to see if the return pattern was industry wide.

planetsteve · January 12, 2015 3:34AM

Since the topic came up, I do have a quick question. A dealer who has sold me a couple dozen items (US stamps, not coins) shipped a $25 item which just didn't look like the photo (color was really off, which was really unusual for him). I asked right away to return, he said sure, I even bought more three more items that I left pos fb for, but the holidays went by, I got sidetracked, had to buy 6x9 envelopes, and so on.

I could live with keeping the item after all. Does it cause a seller inconvenience if an item is returned after 14 days (his rule on the listing)? If I return today I'll be at 16 days after delivery.

MGLICKER · January 12, 2015 3:37AM

<< I could live with keeping the item after all. Does it cause a seller inconvenience if an item is returned after 14 days (his rule on the listing)? If I return today I'll be at 16 days after delivery. >>

That is a good question that I could probably answer better a week from now.

telephoto1 · January 12, 2015 3:51AM

<< Yes, I recently had two Details Coins - come back. The first one was from what I am pretty sure was a dealer; he said "I did not know it was cleaned." It was beyond the 15 days, and I still took it back. I had another one just come back in the mail with no return filed. This was another cleaned details coin (clearly labeled with good photos) and it was bought by a dealer. I got the return notice days later and did the refund.

It is my clearly unsubstantiated hunch that they were both looking for coins that they could get good deals on and perhaps have the "details" issue "overlooked" in the selling process.

Sounds like a good way to make a profit, but it sure sucks up my time and since I found it all a bit insincere, I blocked them both. >>

Right there with you-I usually block as well. Deals like this are usually people trying to use you as a free approval service, shopping your item around for a quick flip and returning it if they can't.

koynekwest · January 12, 2015 3:56AM

As a buyer I've had to return over half of what I've purchased-overgraded; mis-attributed; hidden problems that weren't so hidden when I got the coin in hand etc. Ebay has really gone downhill in the last few years-unfortunately they're still the only game in town.

telephoto1 · January 12, 2015 3:58AM

<< As a buyer I've had to return over half of what I've purchased-overgraded; mis-attributed; hidden problems that weren't so hidden when I got the coin in hand etc. Ebay has really gone downhill in the last few years-unfortunately they're still the only game in town. >>

If you're returning over half of what you buy, something's wrong.

Pokermandude · January 12, 2015 4:07AM

In my store I have about 96% coins, 2% banknotes and 3% jewelry. Yet jewelry has made up probably 80% of my returns. In the majority of cases it's an overly picky buyer.

roadrunner · January 12, 2015 4:12AM

<< If you're returning over half of what you buy, something's wrong. >>

I returned 60-80% of the coins sent to me through the mail via Coin World ads in the 1975-1986 period. And the problem was not so much with me being fussy as it was the sellers who sold over-graded crap. And it went all the way up the chain to the big boyz too. The only solution was not to order anything. I eventually went to a mode of only buying through major auctions where a dealer would review lots that I had picked out ahead of time. In that era, if you WEREN'T returning the majority of the coins sent to you, you were doing something wrong (ie getting buried). I don't see why it would be all that much different today on Ebay when it comes to raw coins.

Unknown · January 12, 2015 4:16AM

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telephoto1 · January 12, 2015 4:25AM

I can understand returning a lot of mail order stuff back in the day when there were no good images of the material, etc. available... but today, when you can see and ask for detailed images/scans of an item before purchasing (and can pass on the item if they aren't available), I just can't see returning over 50% of items bought. 10%-20% maybe but not over half. Return numbers that high imo usually equate to a) unrealistic expectations, b)possible lack of knowledge about certain idiosyncrasies regarding certain issues (poor strikes, die flaws, etc.)...or c)abuse of return privilege by would-be flippers. JMHO

SoCalBigMark · January 12, 2015 4:58AM

Glicker, are you using a scanner for your images?

AMRC · January 12, 2015 5:06AM

<< 

<< As a buyer I've had to return over half of what I've purchased-overgraded; mis-attributed; hidden problems that weren't so hidden when I got the coin in hand etc. Ebay has really gone downhill in the last few years-unfortunately they're still the only game in town. >>

If you're returning over half of what you buy, something's wrong. >>

And it is not with eBay.

LindeDad · January 12, 2015 5:10AM

<< As a buyer I've had to return over half of what I've purchased-overgraded; mis-attributed; hidden problems that weren't so hidden when I got the coin in hand etc. Ebay has really gone downhill in the last few years-unfortunately they're still the only game in town. >>

Get a better monitor please.

MGLICKER · January 12, 2015 5:16AM

<< Glicker, are you using a scanner for your images? >>

Yes, but I could use an electron microscope and the results would be the same on these recent returns. Same scanner that I used when the return rates were under 2%.

The 3 most recent returns were from regular Ebay coin sellers. I have little doubt that the softness in recent pricing is the culprit.

One buyer said that the coin was no longer needed. Most recent buyer did not need 10 days to decide that a Morgan did not fit his set.

These returns would be little more than a nuisance if there was still some margin in selling slabbed coins. Ebay has sucked the life out of that.

bigjpst · January 12, 2015 5:53AM

I have had a small uptick in returns as well. Just picked up a return today that buyer filed a snad, saying that the NGC slab I sold him looked like it was tampered with and reglued and the coin didn't look like it fit the grade. All I see is the evidence of the original sealing. I responded to his original email about possibly returning the coin within an hour or so, and the SNAD return started without him replying to my email stating he could return in no problem if he was happy. Now I just have to wait and see if he plans to NEG me for NGC overgrading a coin in his opinion.

bestday · January 12, 2015 5:54AM

<< When I sell, I won't take returns on raw coins. Why? Because I don't want people wasting my time and money, and possibly swapping the coin out or altering it, then changing their mind and wanting their money back. Way too many variables outside my control with raw coins for my liking, especially when I clearly state and detail any problems.

I take returns on graded material, though. >>

Ebay will force a return .. if the buyer wants a refund /return

jessewvu · January 12, 2015 5:57AM

I have had more returns in the past year than the last 10. EBay is making it way too easy to return stuff now, even if delivered exactly as described.

"I changed my mind" and "I can get it cheaper" is now something I pay return shipping on.

CoinZip · January 12, 2015 6:00AM

puffer · January 12, 2015 6:02AM

No unreasonable returns to report on my account, bottom line--I don't want anyone to feel obligated to keep a collectible that they wanted but changed their mind on for whatever reason. Hobby first, business second. And I have only blocked two people total with hundreds of customers, one for repeated rude remarks about a coin he saw in my listings, the other by someone who insisted I help them skate free of Canada's custom fees. I would rather suffer economically than edge out someone else in this hobby business with bad feelings that hurt numismatics.

LindeDad · January 12, 2015 6:11AM

Reason is eBay types in bold letters "RETURN THIS ITEM" the whole time on the waiting for item to be delivered page.

What I mean is eBay is seeding dough of the quality of the item while the person is awaiting delivery and at to same time showing all kinds of (some of which are fake) comparisons to the eBay bidder.

Unknown · January 12, 2015 6:45AM

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SoCalBigMark · January 12, 2015 6:46AM

Did you get neg'd?

MGLICKER · January 12, 2015 7:09AM

""" I called customer service, showed them my high-quality pics, pointed out that the listing said the coin was cleaned, and they sided with me and refused a return because I stated that I was not offering returns on the coin both in the listing and via the listing settings. """

Good to see some seller support.

Unknown · January 12, 2015 7:20AM

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koynekwest · January 12, 2015 8:13AM

<< I can understand returning a lot of mail order stuff back in the day when there were no good images of the material, etc. available... but today, when you can see and ask for detailed images/scans of an item before purchasing (and can pass on the item if they aren't available), I just can't see returning over 50% of items bought. 10%-20% maybe but not over half. Return numbers that high imo usually equate to a) unrealistic expectations, b)possible lack of knowledge about certain idiosyncrasies regarding certain issues (poor strikes, die flaws, etc.)...or c)abuse of return privilege by would-be flippers. JMHO >>

This insane return rate has just been during the last year. Previously I had few returns. I've been buying and selling on ebay since 1998 so I'm no novice. And I've been collecting since 1961 so I'm no novice there either. None of the points you quote apply to me. I'll detail one return-good photo but camera angle and lighting concealed a nasty counting/wrapping machine scratch in the obverse field-this was no doubt intentional. Maybe I'll just buy stuff with top notch images henceforth and not depend on any degree of honesty from any seller. Seems that might be the wise thing to do when dealing with ebay.

koynekwest · January 12, 2015 8:15AM

<< 

<< As a buyer I've had to return over half of what I've purchased-overgraded; mis-attributed; hidden problems that weren't so hidden when I got the coin in hand etc. Ebay has really gone downhill in the last few years-unfortunately they're still the only game in town. >>

If you're returning over half of what you buy, something's wrong. >>

Yeah-what's wrong seems to be increased dishonesty and creative photography to hide cleanings, damage, etc by more and more ebay sellers these days.

davewesen · January 12, 2015 3:26PM

It must be difficult to keep your top rated seller designation, with so many 'selling defects'.

With 2 weeks (or 6months) return option, anyone who sells generic silver/gold will probably see 'returns' with a price pullback.

BLUEJAYWAY · January 12, 2015 3:37PM

With all these Ebay related issues between buyers/sellers it's a wonder shows don't have a higher attendance figure. I still feel that there is nothing like seeing the coinage up close and personal. I know many coins that appeal to collectors aren't always readily avaliable at a show,if you are even fortunate enough to have one in your area, and Ebay has such an array of choices. But from reading here this past year of all the counterfeits,misreps. etc. on Ebay, I can see where it can be quite discouraging/frustrating for both buyer/seller.

Manorcourtman · January 12, 2015 10:29PM

Until last month I had one return in the previous 13 months ( Out of 300+ coins) and it came from a lame board member who has been blocked since! The Board member uses the eBay system like an approval service to buy possible upgrades and crosses. He buys and promptly files not as described cases so the seller must pay his return shipping if he thinks the coins won't cross or upgrade. People like this are what is driving good sellers away.

metalmeister · January 13, 2015 12:32AM

I'm not seeing anything unusual except rising fees on Feebay. No returns on Ebay past 5 years.

ctf_error_coins · January 13, 2015 12:34AM

I have very detailed photos.

I never get returns.

Ebay is awesome.

MGLICKER · January 13, 2015 1:27AM

<< I have very detailed photos.

I never get returns.

Ebay is awesome. >>

Doubtful that is worth the return postage on a sub $10 coin. Images are not a factor when a buyer states that he no longer needs a coin, as a recent returner stated.

FredWeinberg · January 13, 2015 1:41AM

After 15 years of selling on Ebay, we got our first Negative
a month or two ago -

We listed a set of 12 clipped Planchet Lincoln Cents, one each
in a clock position - we laid them out over a computer-generated
'clock', AND said in the listing that the 'clock graphic' itself was
not included, just coins only - but that the winner could easily
print out the clock graphic from the listing, or make their own.

Without the winning buyer emailing/calling/anything, he gave
us our very first negative, saying simply 'clock not included'.

That irritated me - we said that the clock graphic was NOT included
in the listing, and the buyer didn't even take the time to contact
us and ask if there was a clock with the set, or if we could email
him the clock graphic (which anyone could easily make on their own
computer) -- no contact at all.

He was promptly blocked - but as to the question of Ebay returns,
we had 2-3 for the entire year.

puffer · January 13, 2015 1:48AM

My images are basic high dpi, usually 48 bit color, scanner images, some scanners are much better than others. I see a lot of sellers moving large numbers of low value coins and other items, while my average item is well over a hundred. But since I sell most of my numismatics around wholesale the buyers are getting a good deal, sold a better date Morgan today around GS bid.

I want to keep numismatics in perspective and not get hung up on disputes with buyers. Usually the market with rigorous forums will shake out the good and bad sellers and buyers.

TwoSides2aCoin · January 13, 2015 1:59AM

If I recall , I've had one return since 2001 and I think that was last year when my nephew listed something and his "description" might have been "whacked out"

My bad for not "proofreading " his work. That buck still stops here. I don't get returns, generally speaking.

pennyannie · January 13, 2015 3:17AM

I just sold a item for 1500 on ebay, I am going to hold on to the funds for 6 months to make sure the sale goes thru before I spend it.

I debated for a day or two if I really wanted to sell this item on ebay, years ago it was a non issue.

I just did a ebay return and had to pay the return shipping, to be honest I almost did a not as described to make sure I did not get hosed on the deal. The item ( a holley carb) was not even close to as described and the item I received was not the same as pictured. There is a lot to navigate thru on ebay and as a buyer I feel safer going thru a ebay to make sure all goes smooth when the dollar amount exceeds 500 bucks. I do feel like getting anyone dinged but... I prefer not to pay the price for it if the seller was deceptive.

Wabbit2313 · January 13, 2015 4:53AM

<< ....as mid priced coins continue to drop in value.

4 out of 10 recent sales coming back seems high.. >>

Sounds like you need to block "koynekwest".

MGLICKER · January 13, 2015 5:05AM

<< 

<< ....as mid priced coins continue to drop in value.

4 out of 10 recent sales coming back seems high.. >>

Sounds like you need to block "koynekwest".

>>

No kidding!

All the responses are appreciated and it looks like it was just a coincidence and not a trend.

Seems that a much larger portion of Ebay sales are being returned...

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