Football HOF
BLUEJAYWAY
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Any thoughts here on the inductee possibilities?Seau,Terrell Davis,Kevin Greene,The "Bus",Morten Anderson, Kurt Warner.Coaches Jimmy Johnson in his 16th year,Tony Dungy,among others.I think Warner,Seau get in.
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Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
One might compare Davis’ numbers to that of Gayle Sayers, who was all of 34 years old when he was inducted into the HOF in 1977 (still the youngest ever). Sayers had a much lower career total in rushing yards (4,956), but he did have almost as many return yards (4,479), for a total of 9,435 all-purpose yards. Sayers had 56 total TDs to Davis’ 65 total TDs. Sayers had a 5.0 rushing average to Davis’ 4.4 average, although Sayers did it with about 2,500 fewer yards. Sayers holds or is tied for records for most TDs in a rookie season (22 in 1965), most TDs scored in one game (6), and has the highest career kickoff return average (30.6…to compare to a modern player, Devin Hester’s career average is #67 all time at 24.8). On a final note, remember that in Sayers’ day, the regular season was 14 games, not 16.
Terrell Davis was a very good back in a perfect system. I don't think he is a HOF'er.
I don't think you can make the Sayers short career comparison because Gale Sayers was also one of the greatest return men in history!
If you look at the very average backs that led the Broncos in rushing after him, they all had great numbers and
some even had better yards per carry averages.
Olandis Gary 1159 4.2 avg., Mike Anderson 1487 5.0 avg., Portis 1508 &1591 5.5 avg. both years and Reuben Droughns
1240 4.5 avg.
I'm sure he will get in eventually (2000 yards), but with the shortness of his career and the system, I just don't see it.
<< <i>Seau, Pace, Warner and maybe Anderson.
Terrell Davis was a very good back in a perfect system. I don't think he is a HOF'er.
I don't think you can make the Sayers short career comparison because Gale Sayers was also one of the greatest return men in history!
If you look at the very average backs that led the Broncos in rushing after him, they all had great numbers and
some even had better yards per carry averages.
Olandis Gary 1159 4.2 avg., Mike Anderson 1487 5.0 avg., Portis 1508 &1591 5.5 avg. both years and Reuben Droughns
1240 4.5 avg.
I'm sure he will get in eventually (2000 yards), but with the shortness of his career and the system, I just don't see it. >>
Oh I agree on Sayers and being one of the greatest (some would say THE greatest) return men ever. I simply brought him up to play devils advocate, in case someone wanted to point out other RBs who are in the Hall with even far fewer rushing yards that Terrell Davis.
Those are interesting numbers you listed regarding the RBs who succeeded Davis in Denver.
I do think Warner is deserving and I'd vote for him, but I find it interesting that nobody even mentions his Giants years.
Warner
Haley
Bettis
Dungy
<< <i>Any thoughts here on the inductee possibilities?Seau,Terrell Davis,Kevin Greene,The "Bus",Morten Anderson, Kurt Warner.Coaches Jimmy Johnson in his 16th year,Tony Dungy,among others.I think Warner,Seau get in. >>
IMHO, it's not a HOF discussion until Skin2 and CeciliaGuante weigh in.
<< <i>
<< <i>Any thoughts here on the inductee possibilities?Seau,Terrell Davis,Kevin Greene,The "Bus",Morten Anderson, Kurt Warner.Coaches Jimmy Johnson in his 16th year,Tony Dungy,among others.I think Warner,Seau get in. >>
IMHO, it's not a HOF discussion until Skin2 and CeciliaGuante weigh in. >>
CG is an alt for a banned member, and resorting to old habits in that thread. History repeating itself.
Another TD comparison is Earl Campbell - Short peak, high production. It's Brian Griese's fault that TD had a short career.
Here is the complete list:
Morten Andersen, kicker (1982-2004, 2006-2007): Drafted in 1982, Andersen scored more than 90 points in each of 22 seasons and topped 100 points 14 times in his 25-year career. Andersen's best moment might have been a game-winning field goal in overtime to send the Falcons to Super Bowl XXXIII.
Jerome Bettis, running back (1993-2005): Bettis rushed for 1,000-plus yards eight times and ranked fifth all-time in career rushing yards at the time of his retirement. The running back affectionately known by fans as "The Bus" helped Pittsburgh to a Super Bowl XL title in his hometown of Detroit, Michigan, before riding off into the sunset.
Tim Brown, wide receiver (1988-2004): The 1987 Heisman Trophy winner spent all but one season in Oakland, setting multiple franchise records and finishing with the second-highest total receiving yards in NFL history at the time of his retirement. Brown finished with 100 receiving touchdowns.
Don Coryell, head coach (1973-77, 1978-1986): An innovator who introduced a passing system decades ahead of its time, Coryell first brought the St. Louis Cardinals out of the doldrums, going 42-27-1 in five years. The coach then installed his "Air Coryell" offense after taking over the San Diego Chargers in 1978, amassing more than 24,000 passing yards from 1978 to 1983 and capturing three AFC Western Division crowns from 1979 to 1981.
Terrell Davis, running back (1995-2001): Once taken as an afterthought in a crowded backfield, Davis stormed into the starting lineup and led a ground game that powered the Denver Broncos to back-to-back Super Bowl titles in 1997 and 1998. Davis was a three-time All-Pro selection and 1998 NFL MVP before a knee injury cut his career short. He topped the 2,000-yard plateau in '98.
Tony Dungy, head coach (1996-2008): Dungy took over a Tampa Bay Buccaneers franchise known only for perennial failure in 1996 and ushered in a turnaround that culminated in Tampa Bay's Super Bowl XXXVII victory a year after his departure. No matter for the coach, who moved on to Indianapolis, where he won Super Bowl XLI and finished with a career regular-season record of 139-69.
Kevin Greene, defensive end/linebacker (1985-1999): A two-time All-Pro, the former Ram posted double-digit sack totals 10 times. A member of the NFL's All-Decade Team of 1990s, he currently ranks third among all-time sack leaders with 160.
Charles Haley, defensive end/linebacker (1986-1996; 1999): Haley is the only player in NFL history to play on five winning Super Bowl teams, earning rings with the Cowboys and 49ers. He has 100-plus sacks for his career.
Marvin Harrison, wide receiver (1996-2008): Teaming with Peyton Manning, Harrison posted eight consecutive 1,000-plus yard seasons with 10 or more touchdowns. A three-time All-Pro, he shattered the record for receptions in a single season with 143 in 2002. He was a member of the Colts team that won Super Bowl XLI.
Jimmy Johnson, coach (1989-1993, 1996-1999): Johnson left the college ranks to take over the downtrodden Cowboys in 1989 and lead a turnaround that included two Super bowl titles in five seasons. After leaving Dallas, Johnson returned to the league in 1996 as head coach of the Miami Dolphins, and led the team to playoff berths in his final three seasons on the sideline.
John Lynch, safety (1993-2007): Lynch was an integral member of a historically great defense that led the 2002 Bucs to a Super Bowl title. A two-time All-Pro, he racked up over 1,000 tackles during his 15-year career.
* Orlando Pace, offensive tackle (1997-2009): The longtime St. Louis Ram earned three All-Pro nods and led an offensive line that blocked for three straight NFL MVPs. A member of the team that won Super Bowl XXXIV, he was one of the dominant tackles of his generation.
Bill Polian, contributor (1978-1982, 1984-2011): Polian spent more than three decades helping build franchises into dominant playoff teams, resulting in five Super Bowl appearances between the Buffalo Bills and Indianapolis Colts. Polian was also at the helm of the expansion Carolina Panthers, building a roster that made it to the NFC Championship in the franchise's second year of existence.
* Junior Seau, linebacker (1990-2009): Seau led the San Diego Chargers to their lone Super Bowl appearance in franchise history. A six time All-Pro, no other defender played in more seasons (20) than Seau.
Will Shields, guard (1993-2006): Shields was the definition of durability, playing 224 straight games from his rookie season until his retirement in 2006. The longtime Chiefs lineman was named first-team All-Pro three times, during which he blocked for an NFL-best scoring offense featuring running back Priest Holmes in 2002 and 2003.
Mick Tingelhoff, center (1962-1978): Signed as a free agent out of Nebraska in 1962, Tingelhoff earned the starting center position as a rookie and never relinquished it. The durable, five-time All-Pro Tingelhoff anchored a Vikings offensive line that helped win 10 division titles from 1968 to 1978 and appeared in four Super Bowls. He's the lone senior finalist for the Class of 2015.
* Kurt Warner, quarterback (1998-2009): A two-time NFL MVP, Warner led the Rams to their only Super Bowl championship in franchise history. He then led the Arizona Cardinals to their lone Super Bowl appearance, totaling three Super Bowl games for the two-time All-Pro. Warner entered the league as an undrafted free agent and owns the three highest passing yardage totals in Super Bowl history.
Ron Wolf, contributor (1963-1974, 1976-2001): Starting as a scout for Oakland in 1963, Wolf made a lasting mark as player personnel director, building Raiders teams that won nine division titles and appeared in three Super Bowls. Wolf later moved on to Green Bay, where he assembled a roster that claimed three straight NFC Central division titles and won Super Bowl XXXI. He's viewed as one of the best talent evaluators in NFL history.
I didn't realize Don "Air" Coryell was up for induction. He was an innovator, seems worthy of being inducted.
Playing with Brooks and Sapp on defense def helped him.
I think it's Bettis, Seau and dungys year.
TIM BROWN
WILL SHIELDS
ORLANDO PACE
CHARLES HAYLEY
<< <i>
<< <i>Any thoughts here on the inductee possibilities?Seau,Terrell Davis,Kevin Greene,The "Bus",Morten Anderson, Kurt Warner.Coaches Jimmy Johnson in his 16th year,Tony Dungy,among others.I think Warner,Seau get in. >>
IMHO, it's not a HOF discussion until Skin2 and CeciliaGuante weigh in. >>
Its not official NFL HOF chat until JasP24 gets involved
Pace
Warner
Tingelhoff
Greene
Polian
Wolf
Brown or Harrison
<< <i>Is Warner really a lock this year? Someone mentioned he is. Hmm. Nice guy and def eventually. >>
Stone cold lock.
These players made the cut to the final 10 last year, meaning they got the most votes of anyone who did not get elected:
Marvin Harrison
Jerome Bettis
Will Shields
Charles Haley
Kevin Greene
So what you may ask? Well, much like the Baseball HOF, the voting (outside of first ballot locks) tends to be a process. That being said, lets look at the odds of these 5 getting in this season.
Marvin Harrison...Last year was his first ballot and he made the cut to 10. Looking at past votes, that typically means he will be inducted this year. Recent examples of this? Michael Strahan, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, John Randle...Shannon Sharpe the recent example of someone who made the cut to 10 in his first year who did NOT make the HOF the folliwng year. He made it in his 3rd year. With T.O., Hines Ward and Randy Moss all coming eligible in the next 3 classes, and Tim Brown still in line behind Harrison (Brown finished 11-15 last year in the voting) my prediction is that Harrison is near certain to go in this year.
Jerome Bettis...Has finished in the top 10 the last 2 years, and should be in that zone again this year. He's been well ahead of Terrell Davis in the voting, with Davis really only making the top 15 for the first time due to the HOF changing their rules and making a separate category for contributors this year. I give Bettis about a 50/50 this year due to the strength of the first ballot finalists. But would be shocked to see Davis get more votes all of a sudden.
Will Shields...Shields made the cut to 10 for the first time last year, but with recent O-Linemen like Walter Jones, Larry Allen, Jon Ogden all going in before him (rightly so) he's got a tough road...Again this year, he's got Pace on the ballot, who most likely will get more votes. Shields is a bit of a long shot this year, and will be on the borderline of finishing 10-11 in the initial voting.
Charles Haley..Along with Tim Brown, the longest wait so far. Haley has made the top 10 the last 3 years in a row just outside of making the top 5. I think he's got a descent shot this year. But with a possible 3 first ballot guys, and one already being a defensive guy, tough to say he's going to make it. Personally I think Haley gets in this year, but most likely will come down to 2 of these 3 making it: Warner, Pace, Haley...If I were a betting man, I'd bet on Warner and Haley, but Pace seems to be getting pretty big push from guys he played against.
Kevin Greene...Last year was Greene's first in the top 10. Would seem he is behind Charles Haley as a pass rusher, and I don't see the committee putting 3 defensive players and 2 of them pass rushers this year. He may slip back to the 11-15 group, but will make the Hall in the next few..After Haley of course.
Just something to think about....The last time we didn't have a MINIMUM of 2 players get elected from the previous years 6-10 was 2006. That year, 3 first ballot guys went in (Aikman, Moon, Reggie White) and it was also when the HOF only allowed 4 modern players vs. the current 5 they allow. So history says we should see at least 2 from this group going in. I will go with Harrison and Haley, but anyone of them could make it and will make it before any other Non-1st ballot types.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Is Warner really a lock this year? Someone mentioned he is. Hmm. Nice guy and def eventually. >>
Warner had 6 good years, 3 of which lead to the Super Bowl. Being in the media also helps him.
He is like the Gale Sayers of QBs.
<< <i>
<< <i>Is Warner really a lock this year? Someone mentioned he is. Hmm. Nice guy and def eventually. >>
Warner had 6 good years, 3 of which lead to the Super Bowl. Being in the media also helps him. >>
Don't tell me we're looking at an Eli Manning induction someday!
There are some scenarios that say Warner might not go in this year but Id say his odds are north of 90%.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Seau, Pace, Bettis, Warner, Andersen, in that order. >>
After further consideration, I would include Harrison instead of Morten Andersen, though I do think Mort deserves to eventually get in. I also think Tim Brown and Haley are deserving eventually too.
<< <i>
<< <i>Seau, Pace, Bettis, Warner, Andersen, in that order. >>
After further consideration, I would include Harrison instead of Morten Andersen, though I do think Mort deserves to eventually get in. I also think Tim Brown and Haley are deserving eventually too. >>
I believe all 3 will get in at some point. 2016 and 2017 are relatively weak years for first ballot eligible guys and should help catch up on some of the more deserving guys who haven't been able to crack the top 5 yet.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
JUNIOR SEAU
TIM BROWN
WILL SHIELDS
ORLANDO PACE
CHARLES HAYLEY
The Bettis choice (instead of Pace) is understandable. Junior Seau was a slam dunk, and I'm glad that Brown, Shields, and Hayley are finally in.
I am not surprised that Warner will have to wait another year.
Locks for 2016: Pace, Warner and Favre.