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Am I the only one having trouble buying "made for profit" samples?
Lakesammman
Posts: 17,292 ✭✭✭✭✭
Jeez - PCGS made a bunch of "samples" for Fastcoin/Savoncoin and he's now selling them for $250 each on ebay.
What frosts me is he sold a Morgan some time ago. When I inquired as to whether he had any more, he said no, it was one of a kind. Now there are 2 along with a Peace dollar on ebay.
Since these don't really promote PCGS or CLCT as an entity, I'm inclined to not include these in the samples generation thread.......
What frosts me is he sold a Morgan some time ago. When I inquired as to whether he had any more, he said no, it was one of a kind. Now there are 2 along with a Peace dollar on ebay.
Since these don't really promote PCGS or CLCT as an entity, I'm inclined to not include these in the samples generation thread.......
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
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bob
Time for some bulk subs
Tuff one of this as they are still slabs, but you are correct that they are out of the normal vein of what your samples generations compilation is focused on.
I would be inclined to mention there are some "samples" out there done specifically for dealers that have nothing to do with actual CLCT/PCGS sample slabs, and leave it at that; elsewise, it could get quite onerous if other dealers jumped on the bandwagon.
It's not like the slab even promotes that specific dealer.
I looked at the '21 morgan "sample". No reason for it like that, especially at $250 ask. Blatant attempt to rip off sample slab collectors if they aren't bright enough.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Since these don't really promote PCGS or CLCT as an entity, I'm inclined to not include these in the samples generation thread....... >>
What, nobody will sell you one at the moment so you decide not to include them in the SGT?
You talking about me??
What, nobody will sell you one at the moment so you decide not to include them in the SGT?
Plenty available - just trying to decide how broad or narrow to make the focus of the thread.
A sample is just that - a freebie given to promote either PCGS or individual dealers. Made for profit samples/slabs are another matter, especially some of the more expensive "lunchtime" pieces.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
<< <i>Blatant attempt to rip off sample slab collectors if they aren't bright enough.
You talking about me??
>>
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Wondercoin
Probably not - there would be no end to dealers and collectors trying to triple their money on "dreck" by putting it in a "Sample" holder. Better to put a stop to it now by not participating.
<< <i>I have a tough time buying anything that was "made for collectors", particularly if from the people doing the making, and especially if the making was recent >>
Yeah, kind of like that boat load of silver salvaged off the bottom of the ocean. Tons of silver...The Gariposa as I recall.
Cannot see buying any of that stuff either....Melted and made into collectible slugs.
bob
I guess if you personally believe $75/coin would be too high (and you are entitled to that opinion), then I really can't fault someone else from equally thinking $200 is not high enough (and he would be entitled to his opinion too). I suppose it would then be whatever the market would bear with a willing buyer and seller.
Based upon what I see, I think I will personally produce some samples in January with an asking price of about $100/coin OBO. I might also include them for free with an order off my website. In the worst case, I can just start another personal collection
Wondercoin
Are you a lawyer??
The thrill of finding a unique sample combo is dead from blue fade forward.
You like those old pretty designs? Well, let's just make you some new ones!
You like high grade coins? We'll make you some new ones!
You like colorful toning? We'll make you some new ones!
You like black slabs? You like doily slabs? you like sample slabs? well, let's just make you some new ones!
Between the world mints' continual output, and the aftermarket packaging, not to mention private mints of novelty items, it's a wonder that old circulated coins are in demand at all
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Well, if you sell some and give some away, that would perfectly cloud the issue.
Are you a lawyer??
LOL you know he is.
I don't think you should include them. Apples and oranges.
I have never cared for the seller either but that is another matter....
Just like the demise of real baseball card collecting in the late 1980s when all the opportunists (Fleer, Donruss, UD, etc.) jumped in to get a piece of the action (prices went up + supply exceeded demand = disaster), this could be the beginning of the end for sample slab collecting. It is going to really turn some people off. Personally, I will not "feed the beast" by having any part in legitimizing this crap -- at any price.
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
I think they should be included.
Here is my reasoning , sample slabs are silly ..... and these are also silly...... ergo duh
Lakes... You suggest that paying $75 for a BU Morgan sample slab will open the floodgates to folks trying to triple their money on these so you would probably pass. The fact is, from what I just saw on ebay, the floodgates are already open. These samples are being produced in large quantities and even sold now ten at a time on ebay in auction after auction.
I think I would like to get creative and produce some very interesting sample slabs at a reasonable profit margin for those that I chose to sell and I do think they would make a nice thank you gift for customers ordering certain coins off my site. No lawyering here (haven't even picked up a law book in about 13 years now). Just some marketing thoughts. And the competition might even be good for the sample market if current asking prices come way down for certain samples.
Can I ask one thing to the sample experts out there... is it often the kiss of death to the value of the sample to include ones business name on the sample insert?
Wondercoin
<< <i>Jeez - PCGS made a bunch of "samples" for Fastcoin/Savoncoin and he's now selling them for $250 each on ebay.
What frosts me is he sold a Morgan some time ago. When I inquired as to whether he had any more, he said no, it was one of a kind. Now there are 2 along with a Peace dollar on ebay.
Since these don't really promote PCGS or CLCT as an entity, I'm inclined to not include these in the samples generation thread.......
It does not bother me in the least since its not really a true Sample Slab.
A "TRUE" sample slab is one which is given freely by a TPG to indicate what the latest generation of coin protection is that is available from the specific TPG. Anybody that purchases one of these is a fool that simply is not doing his/her homework.
Now, if someone were to be a collector of "slab" or "labels" or perhaps different slab "Types" for a specific coin, then it might be a different story but to ask $250 for one which is a relatively common coin is just playing the market which may or may not make sense to specific purchasers.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Bronco. Your analysis is reasonable. No comment on the "silly" part though.
Lakes... You suggest that paying $75 for a BU Morgan sample slab will open the floodgates to folks trying to triple their money on these so you would probably pass. The fact is, from what I just saw on ebay, the floodgates are already open. These samples are being produced in large quantities and even sold now ten at a time on ebay in auction after auction.
I think I would like to get creative and produce some very interesting sample slabs at a reasonable profit margin for those that I chose to sell and I do think they would make a nice thank you gift for customers ordering certain coins off my site. No lawyering here (haven't even picked up a law book in about 13 years now). Just some marketing thoughts. And the competition might even be good for the sample market if current asking prices come way down for certain samples.
Can I ask one thing to the sample experts out there... is it often the kiss of death to the value of the sample to include ones business name on the sample insert?
Wondercoin >>
1st. It sounds like you've either already ordered your "samples".
2nd. These are not REALLY Sample Slabs any more than a First Strike™ slab is ACTUALLY a first strike off the dies. BUT, there are still many zombies out there that truly believe they are.
3rd. I believe that if a PCGS Authorized Coin Dealer is ordering special slabs, then the name should ALWAYS be on the slab to AVOID fooling the zombies into believing that they are actually Sample Slabs! If not, the yes, the Sample Slab market will be destroyed and folks that have purchased "authentic" Sample Slabs are going to lose their investment money a lot quicker than they expected AND they are going to be pissed.
Now, if PCGS really wants to KILL the Sample Slab market, this is a sure method of doing so.
Remember the story of the goose which laid golden eggs and the their which slaughtered the goose to get all the eggs at once? This is that story played out yet once again.
I can understand "your" desire to make money but the rality of the situation is that this marketing campaign will surely backfire and it does not really matter how much you ask for your "so called" sample slabs (which they really are not), flooding the market will kill the market.
You know that, I know that, everybody on the forum knows it and its only the fools which will actually make it happen.
PS Want to buy a TNFC Slab?
Its your for only $175
Edited to add: The above slab is the way it "SHOULD" be done. Anything else is simply deceptive.
The name is LEE!
I have done nothing yet. My first impulse was to make samples just as the NFC one you pictured. They would make wonderful gifts to customers.
My second impulse was to create a "Sample slab" with a cool coin in the holder.
My third impulse is to do nothing.
Still weighing the situation.
Wondercoin
Others will have a different opinion - diversity of opinion is what makes America great.
The future will be happier knowing the difference
Anyone do a cert lookup on one?
Now I see things are ever changing. Oh well. The Boards are fun . . . . . . I love to watch from the sidelines.
Drunner
Very similar to the newly made doily labels that have been out for awhile now... they got decent premiums when first issued and the information wasn't as clear as to who was getting them made and how many were made, but today with so many out there and so many continuing to be made, I've seen very little premium on them and I've bought several at zero premium. I'll only buy these new "made for profit" samples if I can get them for little to no premium as well as that's all I'd feel comfortable selling them to my customers at.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
On the other hand, if it were a situation where Rick Snow sent coins in for a special eagle eye photo seal insert, that would be a different story because there is value. It wouldn't just be an insert.
and I will not buy one and I don't even look at them anymore.
Thought they were a new sample at first, then I really looked it over and I did not like what I saw.
And if the OP thinks the label is the same style and type/Font of the current issued slabs, then what is typed on the label doesnot matter.
*
Sample slabs when initially released should be given out for free or for a charity.
If they are sold for anything for more than face value, they lose their cachet as a true sample slab.
However, the dealer or issuer of the sample slab has the ability to hold back a few as part of his "collection" and sell them a few years later at a profit but doing so can possibly weaken that sample if that involves more than 1 or 2 or even 3 such slabs.
Only wondercoin's and Bochiman's kids will know the answer to that in 2065?
This discussion started with a premise that there was a $250/coin market for some Morgan Dollar sample slabs. I see that at least one, if not more, indeed sold at that level.
I asked if sample slab enthusiasts might be interested in buying them around the $75 level - a level I thought the coins could be produced at with a nice BU Morgan in the holder and a fair return for the effort. I was told essentially that they would not be welcomed at that price point.
Fair enough. I may or may not produce any personally. If I do, Oreville will be THE FIRST board member that gets one complimentary for his collection.
Wondercoin
I don't collect promotional slabs.
*
<< <i>PCGS made a bunch of "samples" for Fastcoin/Savoncoin and he's now selling them for $250 each on ebay. >>
These all seem to have individual, real cert numbers, e.g. 31437110. How many samples have Certification Database entries vs. say 12345678?
An interesting thing is the coin number indicates a grade of 89 which isn't listed on the PCGS Grading Standards Page but it is within the problem coin range, 82-99. Other samples seem to use the 00 grade.
Is it possible to have a made-to-order Sample Slab with a 00/12345678 grade / cert number?
<< <i>Oreville. Thank you for that analysis.
This discussion started with a premise that there was a $250/coin market for some Morgan Dollar sample slabs. I see that at least one, if not more, indeed sold at that level.
I asked if sample slab enthusiasts might be interested in buying them around the $75 level - a level I thought the coins could be produced at with a nice BU Morgan in the holder and a fair return for the effort. I was told essentially that they would not be welcomed at that price point.
Fair enough. I may or may not produce any personally. If I do, Oreville will be THE FIRST board member that gets one complimentary for his collection.
Wondercoin >>
I think I'll order some up with "wondercoin" on them and see if I can create a market. You don't mind, do you mitch? Seems like anyone can do it, so why not me?
<< <i>FWIW, have moved them to the non-sample category.
Others will have a different opinion - diversity of opinion is what makes America great.
Good idea. Perhaps you could call it the "Advertising/Novelty/Pseudo Sample Slab Category" or similar and include a warning that most are made to profit from the sample slab collector market and that anyone with a 100 coins and some money can have their own made.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
And, Oreville sent me a private note last night regarding sample slabs offered at a price. Based upon that discussion, I will probably not produce any at this time.
Wondercoin
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars