Two Americas Bentley-ville and Porch-ville
RedTiger
Posts: 5,608 ✭
Merry Christmas all.
Story time again, this is about observations from two separate events, two separate lives. Tonight. I saw a mini-mansion hosting a Christmas party. There were five valets standing on the street corner to handle guest parking. A shiny new Bentley convertible in the driveway, more servants milling about. Clearly that person is enjoying the fruits of his/her labor or inheritance or other. Some might call it luck. The cynical might attribute the gains and high living to political connections, corruption or unethical or criminal behavior.
The second America is represented by someone I talked with. He/she is late 20s, early 30s, working temp jobs, but at least willing to work. During lean times a few months ago he/she resorted to begging for food money because no work was currently available. He/she is currently sleeping on a relative's porch, no vehicle to sleep in, not enough money to pay rent, or keep a vehicle running and eat.
Now, I don't know the "facts" of either story, or the full story. It does remind me of Dickens' Tale of Two Cities. The best of times at Bentley-ville, where they hire five valets to work a modest Christmas party. Near the worst of times for the young person that is sleeping on a relative's porch, and has sometimes begged for food money.
What does this have to do with gold? In the book, the great disparity in wealth eventually led to revolution. Many of the wealthy had their heads chopped off during the French Revolution. Of course it doesn't have to be either or, but it does sometimes happen that way.
Story time again, this is about observations from two separate events, two separate lives. Tonight. I saw a mini-mansion hosting a Christmas party. There were five valets standing on the street corner to handle guest parking. A shiny new Bentley convertible in the driveway, more servants milling about. Clearly that person is enjoying the fruits of his/her labor or inheritance or other. Some might call it luck. The cynical might attribute the gains and high living to political connections, corruption or unethical or criminal behavior.
The second America is represented by someone I talked with. He/she is late 20s, early 30s, working temp jobs, but at least willing to work. During lean times a few months ago he/she resorted to begging for food money because no work was currently available. He/she is currently sleeping on a relative's porch, no vehicle to sleep in, not enough money to pay rent, or keep a vehicle running and eat.
Now, I don't know the "facts" of either story, or the full story. It does remind me of Dickens' Tale of Two Cities. The best of times at Bentley-ville, where they hire five valets to work a modest Christmas party. Near the worst of times for the young person that is sleeping on a relative's porch, and has sometimes begged for food money.
What does this have to do with gold? In the book, the great disparity in wealth eventually led to revolution. Many of the wealthy had their heads chopped off during the French Revolution. Of course it doesn't have to be either or, but it does sometimes happen that way.
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Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
Anyway, it is tough out there for many, many people. Always has been but, anecdotally and statistically, those in need have grown rapidly in recent decades. One thing I've seen volunteering in Porch-ville is that those without a felony conviction (believe me many have felonies) are pretty well taken care of by Federal, state, & gov't local agencies, and non-profits. In fact, most live better than 90% of the world with minimal or no personal income whatsoever. They are light-years from revolting against the hand that feeds them and many are trying to build something better for themselves and their loved ones.
It's good to see, and hopefully help, those who want to better themselves. Opportunities are still out there and we need to encourage one another to do the best we can. Let's be a bit more hopeful this Christmas morning.
Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Porch-ville may have been sending $300 a month ACA payments to support the lavish lifestyle of Dr. Bentley-ville even if no medical treatment was ever tendered.
Porch-ville may have been taxed to pay for the major league stadium that fattens designated hitter Bentley-ville's bank account, even though Porch-ville has no interest in the game of baseball.
Porch-ville may have subsidized Amazon/Tesla/Apple/Microsoft executive Bentley-ville with higher taxes to offset his incentives to relocate, even though Porch-ville did not benefit from the new neighbor.
Porch-ville is getting rammed up the arse, while Bentley-ville is scheduling speaking engagements with huge honorariums for his shylock civil servant friends.
...and a Merry Christmas to all!
<< <i>Distressing is not the fact that shrewd and hard workers have attained great success as that was what differentiated America from most of the world. Problematic though is federal, state and local governments are now choosing winners and losers.
Porch-ville may have been sending $300 a month ACA payments to support the lavish lifestyle of Dr. Bentley-ville even if no medical treatment was ever tendered.
Porch-ville may have been taxed to pay for the major league stadium that fattens designated hitter Bentley-ville's bank account, even though Porch-ville has no interest in the game of baseball.
Porch-ville may have subsidized Amazon/Tesla/Apple/Microsoft executive Bentley-ville with higher taxes to offset his incentives to relocate, even though Porch-ville did not benefit from the new neighbor.
Porch-ville is getting rammed up the arse, while Bentley-ville is scheduling speaking engagements with huge honorariums for his shylock civil servant friends.
...and a Merry Christmas to all! >>
^ This, and the printing on $ in excess of growth only exacerbates the dichotomy. Bentley has acquired the ability to price himself to the market and accumulates $. Porch has not acquired that ability.
I'll leave it at...this is the best country on the face of the earth. Bar none. IMHO. And me and my family are more than happy to be here.
Happy holidays. And our constitution says I can say Merry Christmas without fear of punishment or reprisals. We may go see The Interview except it's not rated that high.
<< <i>And our constitution says I can say Merry Christmas without fear of punishment or reprisals >>
Good point and something that we should never take for granted.
Cool avatar of Nolan pounding on Robin. Remember it like it was yesterday.
<< <i>The latter may be one pay check away from disaster! >>
.....as may be the former!
When I was in my teens and twenties I washed dishes for a job.....no big deal, it was work.
A couch?.....hey better than the street.
And while I never turn down street people who ask me for money on the streets I have turned down younger people in their 20's.
Young people have their health an vigor.
Get off the dope and work.
Get intentional about getting a job.
Get a job washing dishes. I did.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>The latter may be one pay check away from disaster! >>
I was referring to the one in the big house. I had a friend in school who lived in the most prestigious neighborhood, his parents had lavish parties. But their house was unfurnished, durin the parties they rented better furniture to garner the appearance of wealth... While the reality was they were maxed out in debt.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>I can relate to both ( though not a bentley)
When I was in my teens and twenties I washed dishes for a job.....no big deal, it was work.
A couch?.....hey better than the street.
And while I never turn down street people who ask me for money on the streets I have turned down younger people in their 20's.
Young people have their health an vigor.
Get off the dope and work.
Get intentional about getting a job.
Get a job washing dishes. I did. >>
Not everyone is on dope that has hard times in modern America. There are many good people struggling. Thanks to BO care, many employers won't give a person more than 20 some hours a week to avoid having to pay the BO care penalties. There are many that have to take part time jobs like this at minimum wage because they were never able to attend college and achieve better in their lives for whatever reason. Can you imagine trying to pay the basics like rent, a light bill, phone bill, car insurance, and buy some food on these types of wages? Sure, some will say, well, get 2 part time jobs. That sounds fine and dandy, but try working two part time jobs around one another with different employers. It's not as easy as it sounds. In the end, they resort to food stamps in order to eat while struggling to get by working part time. This didn't go overlooked by the designers of BO care I assure you. They knew this is a way to game the system and keep poor people poor and dependent on government, while the fat cats get richer by manipulating the system.
<< <i>
<< <i>The latter may be one pay check away from disaster! >>
I was referring to the one in the big house. I had a friend in school who lived in the most prestigious neighborhood, his parents had lavish parties. But their house was unfurnished, durin the parties they rented better furniture to garner the appearance of wealth... While the reality was they were maxed out in debt. >>
Many in the middle class, what's left of it, are highly leveraged these days. Much of the trillions of dollars of U.S. consumer debt is held by the middle class. Sub-prime loans are reaching the 50% of population that is low income but they don't hold much debt as a percentage of the total. Not yet anyway.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The latter may be one pay check away from disaster! >>
I was referring to the one in the big house. I had a friend in school who lived in the most prestigious neighborhood, his parents had lavish parties. But their house was unfurnished, durin the parties they rented better furniture to garner the appearance of wealth... While the reality was they were maxed out in debt. >>
Many in the middle class, what's left of it, are highly leveraged these days. Much of the trillions of dollars of U.S. consumer debt is held by the middle class. Sub-prime loans are reaching the 50% of population that is low income but they don't hold much debt as a percentage of the total. Not yet anyway.
IMO, the middle class will be destroyed when the bankers are done. We will be left with the rich and the poor. Nothing in between.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Many of those struggling have made poor decisions in the past, such as living alone in an apartment instead of renting a room and saving, or buying a new car instead of a used car, or having to have the latest electronics and fashions instead of picking up perfectly good stuff second hand, or buying a lot of fancy food and liquor and travel and drugs and tatoos instead of saving and investing their earnings for the future, or getting married or having kids too young, or getting divorced or having poor employment history or references, or even committing crimes. Not saying that any of that stuff is a deal killer for success in America, but I'd say anyone's position in society is the product of their genes, environment, and decisions, Mostly their decisions, and also some luck of both kinds, but is not as simply as "us vs them" as much of the fringe media would have one believe, when many if not most people's individual results are due to the decisions they've made with their lives and how they choose to spend their time. >>
Sure, you will always have the bums and poor decision makers as you have mentioned, but there are millions of good Americans who have worked hard and tried to do the right thing all of their lives finding themselves in financial trouble these days due to our country being sold out with NAFTA, GATT, government regulations, and market manipulations. The good jobs are disappearing in America, and everything is rising in cost. We don't manufacture hardly anything anymore. We have been strategically structured this way by our leaders who sold us out. Look who signed us onto such things as NAFTA and GATT. IMO, this doesn't end well for any of us reading this forum unless you are part of that 1%. Ross Perot was right. That giant sucking sound was America being destroyed.
<< <i>Many of those struggling have made poor decisions in the past, such as living alone in an apartment instead of renting a room and saving, or buying a new car instead of a used car, or having to have the latest electronics and fashions instead of picking up perfectly good stuff second hand, or buying a lot of fancy food and liquor and travel and drugs and tatoos instead of saving and investing their earnings for the future, or getting married or having kids too young, or getting divorced or having poor employment history or references, or even committing crimes. Not saying that any of that stuff is a deal killer for success in America, but I'd say anyone's position in society is the product of their genes, environment, and decisions, Mostly their decisions, and also some luck of both kinds, but is not as simply as "us vs them" as much of the fringe media would have one believe, when many if not most people's individual results are due to the decisions they've made with their lives and how they choose to spend their time. >>
Spot on.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
All this preaching about "good decisions and choices" is all well and good. However, sometimes people make good decisions and things just turn out crap. Sometimes the best of plans goes to heck. Sure there are obvious bad decisions, but even those don't always lead to ruin. One of the wealthiest self-made men I know ran away from home at age fourteen and never went back.
Coin collectors tend to be overwhelming middle to upper income white males. That a bunch of them would like to poke a stick at any poor person doesn't surprise. That they want to pat themselves on the back for their own "good decisions, and hard work," again doesn't surprise me.
I do want to say the smugness, the arrogance, are rather disgusting to me. I am all for self reliance and taking responsibility. However, I don't believe anyone on the thread came close to why this particular young person is struggling so badly financially. I only heard a tiny bit of the story, but I don't think any of the speculation on the thread comes close in this particular case.
Let's look at the other side. Does anyone think that the Bentley owner got there by saving his/her nickels? By sheer hard work, dedicated studying, and long hours? Did they get their vast fortune by taking on roommates or skimping on fine food, or driving a beater car, or skipping vacations and banking the money? Those frugal living kind of decisions would run counter to buying a Bentley convertible and owning a mini-mansion. I told someone else that my calculator mind turns to thoughts about how much annual income and/or net worth I might need before I would feel comfortable buying a new Bentley convertible. Those numbers boggle my mind, but tend towards the frugal side. Again, we don't know the story. It might be some entertainer or pro athlete or similar kind of person, that might be bankrupt in a few years after their income stream drops.
I do think about this: if someone else made all the same basic big life decisions how many would end up with the mansion and the Bentley? I'm pretty good with odds. My back of the envelope puts the odds at less than 1 in 10,000 for people that made mostly the same base decisions in life, would have the means to afford the Bentley plus the mansion. So 99.99% that made the same good decisions wouldn't end up there. So there is a lot of luck involved in the landing of the mansion and the Bentley. Now I will say that most of those other "good decision" makers likely end up with decent demographics likely similar to the forum: upper income, but not considered wealthy. Coin collector demographics tend to be top 20% in income, top 20% in net worth, but only a tiny handful have the means for a Bentley and a mansion. Those on the PCGS forum tends to skew even higher, so maybe more like top 10% income, top 10% net worth.
/edit to add: how about the other odds? If someone made all the same big life decisions as the person on the porch, how many end up poor and near homeless? I'd guess around 5%, so I see more than a bit of bad luck involved there too. Some choices were probably bad life decisions. However, some probably made a lot of sense at the time, even to rational and older adults, but the results came out poor. There are a lot more people at the edge of homelessness than there are with a Bentley and a mini-mansion. There are millions of Americans that are homeless, and many, many millions more on the edge, on that proverbial porch, against what might be a few hundred new Bentley convertibles sold each year.
Well, thanks for all the comments, even if many are predictable.
<< <i>The smugness of what I might call the "Calvinists" on the thread amuses me and angers me. For those that don't read history, one description of Calvinists has them believing that wealth was an indicator of God's grace on a person or a family. The wealthier the person, the closer to God they apparently were. Of course modern day people don't believe this at all. There are endless examples of super wealthy people that are about as far from anyone's God as might be imagined (and those people would proudly proclaim that too).
All this preaching about "good decisions and choices" is all well and good. However, sometimes people make good decisions and things just turn out crap. Sometimes the best of plans goes to heck. Sure there are obvious bad decisions, but even those don't always lead to ruin. One of the wealthiest self-made men I know ran away from home at age fourteen and never went back.
Coin collectors tend to be overwhelming middle to upper income white males. That a bunch of them would like to poke a stick at any poor person doesn't surprise. That they want to pat themselves on the back for their own "good decisions, and hard work," again doesn't surprise me.
I do want to say the smugness, the arrogance, are rather disgusting to me. I am all for self reliance and taking responsibility. However, I don't believe anyone on the thread came close to the whys of what this particular young person is struggling so badly financially. I only saw a tiny bit of the story, but I don't think the speculation on the thread comes close in this particular case.
Let's look at the other side. Does anyone think that the Bentley owner got there by saving his/her nickels? By sheer hard work, dedicated studying, and long hours at work? Did they get their vast fortune by taking on roommates or skimping on fine food, or driving a beater car, or skipping vacations and banking the money? Those frugal living kinds of decisions would run counter to the kind of person that buys a Bentley convertible. I told someone else that my calculator mind turns to thoughts about how much annual income/net worth I might need before I would feel comfortable buying a new Bentley convertible. Those numbers boggle my mind. Again, we don't know the story. It might be some entertainer or pro athlete or similar kind of person, that might be bankrupt in a few years after their income stream drops.
I do think about this: if someone else made all the same basic big life decisions how many would end up with the mansion and the Bentley? I'm pretty good with odds. My back of the envelope puts the odds at less than 1 in 10,000 for people that made mostly the same base decisions in life, would have the means to afford the Bentley plus the mansion. So 99.99% that made the same good decisions wouldn't end up there. So there is a lot of luck involved in the landing of the mansion and the Bentley. Probably more than a bit of bad luck for the person that ends on a porch, begging for food money. Now I will say that most of those other "good decision" makers likely end up with decent demographics likely similar to the forum: upper income, but not considered wealthy. Coin collector demographics tend to be top 20% in income, top 20% in net worth, but only a tiny handful have the means for a Bentley and a mansion. Those on the PCGS forum tends to skew even higher, so maybe more like top 10% income, top 10% net worth.
/edit to add: how about the other odds? If someone made all the same big life decisions as the person on the porch, how many end up in the same place? I'd guess around 5%. So I see more than a bit of bad luck involved. Some choices were probably bad life decisions, but some probably made a lot of sense at the time, even to rational and older adults, but the results came out poor. There are a lot more people at the edge of homelessness than there are with a Bentley and a mini-mansion. There are millions of Americans that are homeless, and many, many millions more on the edge, on that proverbial porch, against what might be a few hundred new Bentley convertibles sold each year.
Well, thanks for all the comments, even if many are predictable. >>
Yes yours included. So honestly since you met this person how much did you pull out of your wallet and give to them to help out?
What was your purpose making this post? To put others down?
You sound like a really self righteous and judgemental person.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>
What was your purpose making this post? To put others down?
You sound like a really self righteous and judgemental person. >>
I like to tell stories. I passed no judgements in the story. The rich person is not wrong, nor is the poor person, in my true story, based only on my observations.
I'm not sure what your point is, in passing judgements, first against the poor person in my story, and now against me. I can say the comments about the poor person on the thread were not accurate (eg: dope smoking, spending lavishingly on electronic gadgets, or tattoes). If anyone is self-righteous and judgmental, it is you that threw those first stones of judgement. Look in the mirror because your words indict you and wound your character, not mine.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
<< <i>
<< <i>
What was your purpose making this post? To put others down?
You sound like a really self righteous and judgemental person. >>
I like to tell stories. I passed no judgements in the story. The rich person is not wrong, nor is the poor person, in my true story, based only on my observations.
I'm not sure what your point is, in passing judgements, first against the poor person in my story, and now against me. I can say the comments about the poor person on the thread were not accurate (eg: dope smoking, spending lavishingly on electronic gadgets, or tattoes). If anyone is self-righteous and judgmental, it is you that threw those first stones of judgement. Look in the mirror because your words indict you and wound your character, not mine. >>
You create a thread I'm not sure for what purpose. But after members of the community respond reasonably with an opinion and reply you come back in your second post and suggest some contributors to this thread are smug Calvinists who are arrogant who poke a stick at the poor....... I would call that judgmental on your part and far from the truth. You had a chance to help someone but did not and instead create a thread and then spew your anger and disgust at those who respond.
( really because your a wannabe I suspect) . I would call that hypocritical ....... Are you a hypocrite? You really come off as a arrogant!
Grow up !
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>
Let's look at the other side. Does anyone think that the Bentley owner got there by saving his/her nickels? By sheer hard work, dedicated studying, and long hours? Did they get their vast fortune by taking on roommates or skimping on fine food, or driving a beater car, or skipping vacations and banking the money? Those frugal living kind of decisions would run counter to buying a Bentley convertible and owning a mini-mansion. I told someone else that my calculator mind turns to thoughts about how much annual income and/or net worth I might need before I would feel comfortable buying a new Bentley convertible. Those numbers boggle my mind, but tend towards the frugal side. Again, we don't know the story. It might be some entertainer or pro athlete or similar kind of person, that might be bankrupt in a few years after their income stream drops.
>>
Every "rich" person I know started from the bottom and worked to the top. It took decades and a lot of hard work, and probably quite a bit of luck. I have a friend that just sold his software company. He drives a Maserati, but has a modest home. Another friend has a lead gen. business. They have four homes in Utah and California, fly on private jets and just bought a third ownership into a 100 foot yacht (they took me to Mexico on it just last week!!). My brother sold a business back in the late 90's and has a huge home in the Utah foothills. Up the road from me lives Todd Peterson, ex-CEO of vivint (alarm company) that made the largest technology sale in Utah history (2 billion). Todd scrimped and lived in trailers when he was starting his business.
Unless you are a trust fund baby, whatever wealth you are given "free", will probably ultimately be quickly squandered or lost. It is those that never had it, that worked for it, that keep wealth. I know for myself both sides and try not to judge others. Sometimes I do unfairly judge those less fortunate, but I quickly remember that I was there once and could be there again.
Tyler
<< <i> Another friend has a lead gen. business. They have four homes in Utah and California, fly on private jets and just bought a third ownership into a 100 foot yacht (they took me to Mexico on it just last week!!). >>
Ahhhh Utah and lead business. Can you say pyramid......ah I mean MLM!