The Most Legitimately Tough Cards...
Dpeck100
Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have been actively collecting cards again for a little over five years now and I am always intrigued by cards that are legitimately tough. Sure there are plenty of low pop cards but that can be for a number of reasons and not simply because they are condition sensitive.
In the genre of cards I collect a few quickly come to mind.
1982 Wrestling All Stars Series B Rick Martel with only one PSA 8 and one PSA 9.
1985 OPC King Kong Bundy. This card is tough in a PSA 7 with none graded higher. Perhaps the toughest base card I have ever seen from any relatively modern set.
I am curious what some of the other super tough cards are.
In the genre of cards I collect a few quickly come to mind.
1982 Wrestling All Stars Series B Rick Martel with only one PSA 8 and one PSA 9.
1985 OPC King Kong Bundy. This card is tough in a PSA 7 with none graded higher. Perhaps the toughest base card I have ever seen from any relatively modern set.
I am curious what some of the other super tough cards are.
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The 1983 Warren Moon Jogo card is always OC.
1986 Topps Steve Young. Pretty low percentage of 10s compared to others in the set if I remember right.
1998 Tiger Woods 1997 Masters Gold Foil card. The black borders make this one near impossible.
The 1975 Topps Mike Schmidt card is truly godawful tough to find in PSA 10 Gem Mint condition, but it's not a legitimately tough card. I can find (dozens of) examples on Ebay every day of the week.
A 1982 FBI disc of Schmidt is legitimately tough, raw or low grade (high grade is merely a dream). a Felin's Frank Richie Ashburn card is legitimately tough -- in fact, all Felin's Franks Phillies cards are tough.
As much as I enjoy chasing high grades on my a few of my modern endeavours, I much more enjoy chasing the legitimately tough cards that are so scarce that grade is no longer an important consideration.
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That set is full of centering problems in all four directions, including tilting. This card also tends to have a fisheye problem. If you can get over those two hurdles you have the flimsy stock to deal with...lots of edge chipping.
I've owned ~10 of the PSA 9s since I began collecting and not one of them has felt like a contender to grade higher.
..76 Brett
Somewhat the yaz rookie without printing defects.
the 63 mantles have those spots, smudges And I've found difficult
Opened a ton of 81 topps vending and def agree on the 81 Fernando
IMF
<< <i>I much more enjoy chasing the legitimately tough cards that are so scarce that grade is no longer an important consideration. >>
Like most Topps Venezuelans.
Both are fun to chase.
A few months back I started a thread about the Rax Roast Beef wrestling cards. Those are extremely rare and in reality are just as rare as the Charlotte O's Cal Ripken. That said the value will never come close to that of the Ripken simply because of demand.
Here is a scan of some raw Bundy's. I pulled these out of a box of vending singles and it is amazing how tough this card is to find in even gradable condition. There is one so far in the pop report that I submitted and I only did so because the centering was the best I had ever seen on the card. This is the type of condition sensitive rare card that would be truly a needle in a haystack if found in high grade.
Food for thought. ---Indiana Jones (Brian Powell)
1973 OPC 1 All Time H.R. Ldrs. B.Ruth/H.Aaron/W.Mays
<< <i>1973 OPC 1 All Time H.R. Ldrs. B.Ruth/H.Aaron/W.Mays >>
Good one!
I just checked the pop report and this one definitely qualifies.
<< <i>I wouldn't underestimate cards that are scarce because of their condition sensitivity, particularly when their sensitively traces to the manner in which the cards were issued. When the cards were poorly and/or cheaply made to begin with, that's one thing. It is nigh on quite another when they were issued in such a way to virtually guarantee condition degradation right from the time they left the factory for the marketplace. Come on, think about it----when cards of necessity must be hand-cut off the package, or were used as a package stiffener for hot dogs, or were tossed in a bag of snack chips, or were over-sized and kids logically assumed the best thing to do with them, since they wouldn't fit in with their 'ol Topps, was to decorate their bedroom walls with them---using one-sided or double-sided Scotch tape, pins, nails, thumbtacks. If a card could talk, "HELP!! MOIDER!"
Food for thought. ---Indiana Jones (Brian Powell) >>
I agree.
One of the primary sets I collect came in a hot cocoa mix box and they are not only rare but very condition sensitive.
I have been very intrigued by the Mantle Dan Dee Chips card for this very reason.
and the re-used image in this 2013-14 release:
You bring up a prime example of which I was referring to----------the 1954 Mickey Mantle Dan Dee potato chips card.
To be sure, the Dan Dees (the same would go for Stahl-Meyers, Wilsons, Bell Brands, Morrell Meats, and so on) that have graded PSA 8-9 or the equivalent by SGC, most likely escaped being inserted in a bag or unyielding tin of those wonderful salty, oily chips. During the hobby's burgeoning years of the 70s, a very few finds of these cards were brought to shows, or purchased by collector / dealers who were offering what was then serious money for old cards. Once these pristine gems were made available to collectors at a show, they were usually ALL sold by either show's end, or the very FIRST day they first appeared at the booth. (IN ALAN ROSEN'S BOOK, TRUE MINT, HE RECOUNTS SUCH AN EXPERIENCE WHEN A FAMILY WALKED IN TO A CHICAGO SHOW IN ABOUT 1992-93 WITH 400 PRISTINE 1954 WILSON FRANKS CARDS. HE RELATED THAT BY THE END OF THAT SAME AFTERNOON, THEY WERE ALL GONE! WHAT A SIGNIFICANT FIND!)
There was much intense competition for these babies, since they appeared in such stark difference to the usual creased, stained, and toned survivors of childhood past. I suppose getting one's hands on what would be considered unsold stock and to the point, a true fortunate baseball card free prize that was never damaged by either the food product, or by the typical sweaty, salty hands of an eager child recipient---would be chided by the jealous or envious as an unfair advantage. First come; first served. You would forever be grateful to the guy who told you, "did you hear that guy's got MINT Dan-Dees for sale?!?
As you probably know, of these few unissued pristine gems that came forth from finds, only a few of those few were eventually graded TECHNICALLY PRISTINE BY THE THIRD PARTY AUTHENTICATORS A COUPLE DECADES LATER. I was an eye witness to what I have been describing. During a Chicago-area show I attended in 1976, someone walked in with said pristine 1954 Dan Dee Potato Chips---all Cleveland Indians. I won't go into details, as I'm running long at the words already. But, let us say the experience was unforgettable.
Cheers and ciao, for now. ---Indiana Jones (Brian Powell)
<< <i>1954 topps Ben Wade is a hard one in psa 8... >>
Definitely looks tough with a Pop of 23 and only one PSA 9 and no 10's.
Keep them coming.
This is exactly why I wanted to start this thread. It is fun to learn about tough cards.
It took Donald Spence 6 years to complete his first set...
<< <i>1947 Bond Bread Jackie Robinson set of 13...
It took Donald Spence 6 years to complete his first set... >>
Pop report
Is the first card listed a duplicate that is mislabeled or a real card? A Pop of 1 graded would be insane with the one labeled portrait at 70 examples.
Looks very tough with only 220 examples graded in total. Love the fact it took someone with his bank role six years to finish. Very cool.
0 10s
5 9s
1 8.5
77 8s
1962 Frank Robinson #350
0 10s
1 9
0 8.5s
30 8s
1962 Willie Mays #300
1 10
9 9s
1 8.5
71 8s
1957 Sandy Koufax
0 10s
9 9s
3 8.5s
bears...
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
1953 Glendale Detroit Tigers
<< <i>This is a tough set regardless of condition. A bit of an oddball set for sure:
1953 Glendale Detroit Tigers >>
WOW most are 1's and 2's.
1954 Parkhurst: no 10s, 1 PSA 9 666 graded
1955 Parkhurst: no 10s, 0 PSA 9 834 graded
1500 graded and just the one PSA 9 to date!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
T222's PSA 1 or better
<< <i>
<< <i>1947 Bond Bread Jackie Robinson set of 13...
It took Donald Spence 6 years to complete his first set... >>
Pop report
Is the first card listed a duplicate that is mislabeled or a real card? A Pop of 1 graded would be insane with the one labeled portrait at 70 examples.
Looks very tough with only 220 examples graded in total. Love the fact it took someone with his bank role six years to finish. Very cool. >>
The first card is a mislabel. PSA doesn't grade the Bond Bread set of 48 (all different subjects), but one grader slipped up and graded one, resulting in that pop 1.
The toughest cards are by far the Portrait Hand in the Air Variation (Pop 6), the Throwing variation (Pop 7), and the Leaping No Scoreboard variation (Pop 6).
Only 3 known complete sets, though I will have the 4th come 2015.
<< <i>I think all of these are great answers. We can all agree that there is rare and then there is condition rare.
Both are fun to chase.
A few months back I started a thread about the Rax Roast Beef wrestling cards. Those are extremely rare and in reality are just as rare as the Charlotte O's Cal Ripken. That said the value will never come close to that of the Ripken simply because of demand.
Here is a scan of some raw Bundy's. I pulled these out of a box of vending singles and it is amazing how tough this card is to find in even gradable condition. There is one so far in the pop report that I submitted and I only did so because the centering was the best I had ever seen on the card. This is the type of condition sensitive rare card that would be truly a needle in a haystack if found in high grade.
The POP of this card is going to increase from 1 to 4 in the next few months. One is beyond bad, I just sent it in cause I needed one for my set. The other two I found later will grade 5 or 6 at best. I don't think I've seen as many raw ones as you have but I completely agree, it's ridiculously tough.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>1947 Bond Bread Jackie Robinson set of 13...
It took Donald Spence 6 years to complete his first set... >>
Pop report
Is the first card listed a duplicate that is mislabeled or a real card? A Pop of 1 graded would be insane with the one labeled portrait at 70 examples.
Looks very tough with only 220 examples graded in total. Love the fact it took someone with his bank role six years to finish. Very cool. >>
The first card is a mislabel. PSA doesn't grade the Bond Bread set of 48 (all different subjects), but one grader slipped up and graded one, resulting in that pop 1.
The toughest cards are by far the Portrait Hand in the Air Variation (Pop 6), the Throwing variation (Pop 7), and the Leaping No Scoreboard variation (Pop 6).
Only 3 known complete sets, though I will have the 4th come 2015. >>
Thanks for the post and congratulations on putting such a tough set together. That sounds like quite an accomplishment.