1939 Oliver collection and auction sale

MrHalfDime

I am doing some numismatic research for an article I am writing, and came across a mention of a coin provenance, listed only as "ex: Oliver 1939". I have been unable to find any information on such a collection or auction. Can anyone provide me with any information on this auction to help in my research? I do not know if "Oliver" was the consignor or the auction house.

MrEureka

Sounds like it might have been a private sale.

StrikeOutXXX

US or World - coin, token, or other?

One lead:

James Oliver - he was an officer in the American Numismatic Society in the mid 1800's.


• Bangs, Merwin & Co. Sale The Cabinet of James Oliver June 3, 1868 Priced & Named


Page 8 here:
https://books.google.com/books?id=vo0OAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8&dq=James+Oliver+Numismatist&source=bl&ots=DLHU4GqKqP&sig=Bl30aMJS_ef81tWKBR_j_QnwLRc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tm-TVIHwDOLesATerYCQCQ&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=James%20Oliver%20Numismatist&f=false

Page 361 here:
https://books.google.com/books?id=zGc-AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA361&lpg=PA361&dq=James+Oliver+Numismatist&source=bl&ots=JzIpC_9cAq&sig=yE2DuydjmmLVDVCI3NFRJ19bqWQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tm-TVIHwDOLesATerYCQCQ&ved=0CEQQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=James%20Oliver%20Numismatist&f=false


I don't know if any of the 1456 lots were half dimes though as Barndog suggested:

Barndog

<< <i>US or World - coin, token, or other? >>



just a guess, probably a US half dime

MrHalfDime

"just a guess, probably a US half dime"

Give that man a cigar! Yes, it is in relation to an otherwise unremarkable 1843 half dime, but with a shattered reverse die which is the subject of my research. Kamal Ahwash mentioned a couple of auction appearances of this obscure variety in his "Kam's Corner" column in the Gobrecht Journal back in 1976. Specifically, he describes the die marriage and mentions two auction appearances for the unnumbered variety " ...which is the same die of Lot 231 of the WGC Sale, 1945 and Dr. Black Sale Lot 244 – ex: Oliver 1939". The WGC Sale, of course, is the 1945 Numismatic Gallery auction of the 'World's Greatest Collection', and the Dr. Black Sale is the New Netherlands Coin Co., 61st Public Auction Sale, June 30, 1970, but I was not able to identify the Oliver Sale. I believe that StrikeoutXXX has found the auction sale for me, and I truly appreciate that input. In that PDF file (page 8) it mentions the June 3rd, 4th, and 5th auction dates at Bangs, Merwin & Co. but I don't see the year. Does anyone know the year of the sale? Was it 1939?

I am indebted to StrikeoutXXX once again. I see he added the catalog auction listing, with the 1868 date. Thank you once again.

Ronyahski

Gengerke lists two sales by consignor James Oliver in April 1892 and May 1893. Sale by Bangs and Co and catalog by NY Coin & Stamp. A couple of ANJ articles note that Oliver's collection included Canadian coins and tokens and War medals and tokens. Doesn't sound like a half-dime guy.

In the 60's and 70's, the tendency was to cite sales by seller/consignor. Just as Awash cited WCG and Black, and not the auction house, he is likely citing Oliver as the seller/consignor.

Coinosaurus

Could he have meant lot 1939 in the Oliver sale? (Not the year 1939.)

MrHalfDime

"Could he have meant lot 1939 in the Oliver sale? (Not the year 1939.)"

Good question. I will look into that.

MisterSmithGuesser

Not sure if this helps, but when I see "ex: XXXX" it's in reference to the coin's pedigree. Mostly I see this on Heritage's website. Examples:

Ex: Richmond Collection
Ex: Binion Collection
Ex: Eliasberg
Ex: Newman

MrHalfDime

I went back and re-read the auction Lot #244 description from the New Netherlands Coin Co. June 30, 1970 sale. It describes the 1843 shattered reverse half dime (one of the subjects of my pending article), and then states the following: "Ex "Oliver" Oct. 1939", with "Oliver" in quotes, and with the month 'Oct.' specified. This is slightly different from the Kam Ahwash quote, and at least identifies 1939 as a date, and not a lot number. Is there any significance to showing Oliver in quotes? I do believe, as suggested by MisterSmithGuesser, that Oliver is the consignor, or perhaps the seller in a private sale as suggested by MrEureka.

Ronyahski

Yes, some list the consignor or the name of the sale in quotes.

There are nine auctions listed in Gengerke as occurring in October 1939. There are only two that were by the more major players, Stack's on 10/4/1939 and Stack's again on 10/28/1939. Gengerke lists the major consignors and did not list Oliver, but does not mean that there could have been more consignors named in the auction catalog that Gengerke does not list. You might want to check out those two auctions.

CaptHenway

Can Stack's help you out by checking old catalogues? I was just down at ANA Headquarters Wednesday, but don't know when I'll be back down there.