52 Topps Mantle PSA 8 SCP Auction
Tomi
Posts: 643 ✭✭✭
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Tomi
Posts: 643 ✭✭✭
Tomi
Posts: 643 ✭✭✭
Comments
Instagram: mattyc_collection
Instagram: mattyc_collection
<< <i>There is a fairly decent population of PSA 8 examples of this card. However, most who own 8 or better examples are not selling and are, in fact, holding for years. Very few have hit the market in recent years which entices the big money to pony up or risk getting left out in the cold for many more months until another surfaces. Has anyone tracked the population in recent years? It would be interesting to know how many higher grade examples have surfaced in recent years. >>
I disagree about the population of 8's. There are 31 of them. I think this price shows that 31 is not a lot. There are a lot of collectors out there, both well known and under the radar, that can spend 300K for a card of this magnitude and not think twice. The 52T Mantle will always be a solid investment, but it's a given that it's price will be directly related to the strength of the economy. But that can be said about stocks, coins, gold, CD's, etc.
This is a very good day for the hobby and for the collectors who are fortunate enough to own this card
TheClockworkAngelCollection
Instagram: mattyc_collection
<< <i>Todd, you are dead on-- I mean 7s are now LOCKS at 100k and that's at minimum. This was as breakout/watershed an auction as can be, even moreso than than the centered example back in April. I can't see anyone with a gorgeous 7 even entertaining offers below 100k now, I know I'd ask more. Then the dominoes fall all the way down the chain and any with eye appeal are all the more desirable now, considering how downright prohibitively expensive the card is becoming. Wonder how this will affect the insane 4.5 that PWCC is listing this week that hits the eye more like a 7 at first glance. >>
I agree that 52 Topps Mantle PSA 7's are worth a minimum of $100,000.
I know of a recent 52 Mantle Topps PSA 7 private sale that sold for $125,000.
Instagram: mattyc_collection
<< <i>I'd venture a lot of guys who have them are passionate collectors who aren't looking to flip for a fast buck. Hence why nice looking ones don't really pop up all that frequently. Maybe a couple a year. Also, a good portion of those who can drop 50k+ on a card are wealthy enough to either spend that when the economy is soft, or hold theirs while the economy is soft. >>
All looks alive and well in a propped up market that guys are making bank in. The problem is, the crash is coming (as more educated experts will tell you), and there won't be as much of this easy cash a flowing. The problems of 2007-2008 didn't get fixed, they were just delayed/covered up. I remember the high roller over on NET54 that was working for and making big bucks with Lehman Bros back at that time. He was buying tons of high end stuff and when Lehman hit the skids, he wasn't exactly boasting and flowing with the cash he once did. I won't go in to more details on his personal situation, but he wasn't alone. I know a fair amount of these guys due to my uncle's position I have been able to be around them and hear their stories of how much they had and what they lost. That is where we stand again 7 years later. This thing can't be propped up forever and when it does come down, I have a feeling big money baseball cards are going to be the least of everyone's worries. In my opinion, if you want top dollar for super high end stuff, now is about as good of a time as any to cash in and invest wisely in things that will be valuable when this whole economy has to be reset.
That '52 Mantle PSA 8 is a great card. As others have said, I figured it would sell for a little less due to the centering. Someone must have really wanted it.
Instagram: mattyc_collection
<< <i>Very true that it's all cyclical. Just laws of the universe I suppose (was just watching that mini series COSMOS on Netflix; very thought-provoking show). As a lover of cards, I can only hope I have a fat slush fund to shop with during the next downturn! >>
I hope you do too, my friend.
Was a PSA 7 in the $45,000 range in the past 18 months?
<< <i>It sounds like Levi from 707 had some good foresight to have his priced above the market.
Was a PSA 7 in the $45,000 range in the past 18 months? >>
If that is the case he has quite a few cards that he has "foresight" on
The earlier point is dead on in that cards follow the stock market, gold, economy..., and when things are good people will pay $10k, $40k, $100k+ for a card. During these times they are seen as investments or commodities. When the stock market is down a ton they are seen by those not truly vested in the card market as collectors as "expensive pieces of cardboard".
With the way Mantle cards are going right now it is probably a safer bet to wait for them to come down if/who the marek comes down. If the market does not come down and keeps going up the hope is your portfolio goes up faster than the '52 Mantle. Remember - when others are greedy be fearful and when others are fearful be greedy. You have to think is it safer to buy one for $100k now in a 7, or wait for it come down with a market correction....
<< <i>A man better get his money now if he plans to move one, because the timing and market are right. This economy is built on sand and deception. It's not going to last forever. >>
I agree whole heartedly about now being a very good time to sell. I'm less concerned about the overall economy than maybe you are based solely on the way I read this response, but I am 100% on board with the market being perfect for a selling collector. I have sold almost everything I once owned, and with the prices I was getting........Don't miss any of it. I still have a couple really big cards left in my stable that will be sold as well assuming the market comes to my sell price point.
I collect: 80’s Rookies and 86 Fleer Basketball
What I'm interested in, is if the ever-soaring entry price for a '52 topps Mick has brought the prices of his '51 Bowman up in their tailwind. Much of a factor? That card, at least, I'm pleased and proud to be an owner of.
100k seems steep for a PSA 7 but there are far worse ways to spend your money in this hobby.
For example: you could buy a garbage Star Co. Jordan card for 50k. Or you could drop $1800 on a 50 cent diamond cut Mickey Rivers card.
I personally think on a long term basis that the 1952 Topps Mantle is one of the few can't miss cards but seeing the card rise from $78,000 to $268,000 in a four and a half year period is extreme even if you are super bullish.
When trading stocks there are technical indicators like the RSI that show overbought and oversold conditions. Obviously these do not exist for cards but clearly if they did this card would be in extreme overbought territory and susceptible to a correction.
The argument that the people who dabble in these high end markets are never at risk is a flawed one. There is a massive storm brewing in the energy sector right now watching billions evaporate daily in net worth. The CEO of Continental Resources who is involved in the high profile divorce case has seen his fortune collapse in four months by nearly 12 billion and this doesn't include the 1 billion in cash he must come up with to pay off his wife. Sure he is still worth a ton but there are numerous examples on a smaller scale in the energy patch where if this price decline continues you will see legitimate bankruptcies. This move lower is destined to spread to other groups as the credit spreads on lower credit bonds are starting to widen. This may finally be the catalyst that disrupts financial markets.
In the face of my comments though I would say that the three copies that have graded Gem Mint will hold strong regardless as those are right up there as the ultimate bragging rights collectibles of the hobby and specifically Yankees baseball. To what extent if at all the others correct will obviously be impacted by the financial markets performance and the underlying economy.
It will be interesting to see where this card in this grade trades a year from now.
<< <i>This rapid ascent higher is fascinating and from afar feels like a near term top is in sight. I love seeing cards rise in value but when trade-able assets move in a near straight line up and take on a better get in before it is to late feel the end of the move is insight.
I personally think on a long term basis that the 1952 Topps Mantle is one of the few can't miss cards but seeing the card rise from $78,000 to $268,000 in a four and a half year period is extreme even if you are super bullish.
When trading stocks there are technical indicators like the RSI that show overbought and oversold conditions. Obviously these do not exist for cards but clearly if they did this card would be in extreme overbought territory and susceptible to a correction.
The argument that the people who dabble in these high end markets are never at risk is a flawed one. There is a massive storm brewing in the energy sector right now watching billions evaporate daily in net worth. The CEO of Continental Resources who is involved in the high profile divorce case has seen his fortune collapse in four months by nearly 12 billion and this doesn't include the 1 billion in cash he must come up with to pay off his wife. Sure he is still worth a ton but there are numerous examples on a smaller scale in the energy patch where if this price decline continues you will see legitimate bankruptcies. This move lower is destined to spread to other groups as the credit spreads on lower credit bonds are starting to widen. This may finally be the catalyst that disrupts financial markets.
In the face of my comments though I would say that the three copies that have graded Gem Mint will hold strong regardless as those are right up there as the ultimate bragging rights collectibles of the hobby and specifically Yankees baseball. To what extent if at all the others correct will obviously be impacted by the financial markets performance and the underlying economy.
It will be interesting to see where this card in this grade trades a year from now. >>
So with the potential decline of the economy do you see wrestling cards dropping in price?
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<< <i>This rapid ascent higher is fascinating and from afar feels like a near term top is in sight. I love seeing cards rise in value but when trade-able assets move in a near straight line up and take on a better get in before it is to late feel the end of the move is insight.
I personally think on a long term basis that the 1952 Topps Mantle is one of the few can't miss cards but seeing the card rise from $78,000 to $268,000 in a four and a half year period is extreme even if you are super bullish.
When trading stocks there are technical indicators like the RSI that show overbought and oversold conditions. Obviously these do not exist for cards but clearly if they did this card would be in extreme overbought territory and susceptible to a correction.
The argument that the people who dabble in these high end markets are never at risk is a flawed one. There is a massive storm brewing in the energy sector right now watching billions evaporate daily in net worth. The CEO of Continental Resources who is involved in the high profile divorce case has seen his fortune collapse in four months by nearly 12 billion and this doesn't include the 1 billion in cash he must come up with to pay off his wife. Sure he is still worth a ton but there are numerous examples on a smaller scale in the energy patch where if this price decline continues you will see legitimate bankruptcies. This move lower is destined to spread to other groups as the credit spreads on lower credit bonds are starting to widen. This may finally be the catalyst that disrupts financial markets.
In the face of my comments though I would say that the three copies that have graded Gem Mint will hold strong regardless as those are right up there as the ultimate bragging rights collectibles of the hobby and specifically Yankees baseball. To what extent if at all the others correct will obviously be impacted by the financial markets performance and the underlying economy.
It will be interesting to see where this card in this grade trades a year from now. >>
So with the potential decline of the economy do you see wrestling cards dropping in price? >>
They could easily drop in price. Many have. In other related threads I have said the cards in the price range I collect are very susceptible to price declines.
Instagram: mattyc_collection
<< <i>Mickey Rivers was barely worth $1800 when he was actually playing the sport.
That's funny. Itz, you really need to write for a show or publication. You always hit the ball on the screws.
Instagram: mattyc_collection
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<< <i>Mickey Rivers was barely worth $1800 when he was actually playing the sport.
That's funny. Itz, you really need to write for a show or publication. You always hit the ball on the screws. >>
I thought some of the cards I went after were thin. Two guys took it from $111 to the final price. Hopefully for the seller the card got paid for.
Edit: It definitely did as the top set was just upgraded for this card.
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<< <i>It sounds like Levi from 707 had some good foresight to have his priced above the market.
Was a PSA 7 in the $45,000 range in the past 18 months? >>
If that is the case he has quite a few cards that he has "foresight" on
The earlier point is dead on in that cards follow the stock market, gold, economy..., and when things are good people will pay $10k, $40k, $100k+ for a card. During these times they are seen as investments or commodities. When the stock market is down a ton they are seen by those not truly vested in the card market as collectors as "expensive pieces of cardboard".
With the way Mantle cards are going right now it is probably a safer bet to wait for them to come down if/who the marek comes down. If the market does not come down and keeps going up the hope is your portfolio goes up faster than the '52 Mantle. Remember - when others are greedy be fearful and when others are fearful be greedy. You have to think is it safer to buy one for $100k now in a 7, or wait for it come down with a market correction.... >>
Is it safe to buy a PSA 8 for over $200K? Is it safe to buy a PSA 7 for over $100K? Who knows if there will be a market correction but this is the going rate for a PSA 7 and 8 1952 Topps Mantle now.
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<< <i>Mickey Rivers was barely worth $1800 when he was actually playing the sport.
That's funny. Itz, you really need to write for a show or publication. You always hit the ball on the screws. >>
I thought some of the cards I went after were thin. Two guys took it from $111 to the final price. Hopefully for the seller the card got paid for.
Edit: It definitely did as the top set was just upgraded for this card. >>
That is Hatch's set~no amount would be too much if he needed that 10 for his set. His 1978 Topps baseball set sits at a GPA of 10.00. The only cards he's missing from the all-10 set is Burleson (pop 2) and Dillard (also pop 2). An amazing feat.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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<< <i>It sounds like Levi from 707 had some good foresight to have his priced above the market.
Was a PSA 7 in the $45,000 range in the past 18 months? >>
If that is the case he has quite a few cards that he has "foresight" on
The earlier point is dead on in that cards follow the stock market, gold, economy..., and when things are good people will pay $10k, $40k, $100k+ for a card. During these times they are seen as investments or commodities. When the stock market is down a ton they are seen by those not truly vested in the card market as collectors as "expensive pieces of cardboard".
With the way Mantle cards are going right now it is probably a safer bet to wait for them to come down if/who the marek comes down. If the market does not come down and keeps going up the hope is your portfolio goes up faster than the '52 Mantle. Remember - when others are greedy be fearful and when others are fearful be greedy. You have to think is it safer to buy one for $100k now in a 7, or wait for it come down with a market correction.... >>
Is it safe to buy a PSA 8 for over $200K? Is it safe to buy a PSA 7 for over $100K? Who knows if there will be a market correction but this is the going rate for a PSA 7 and 8 1952 Topps Mantle now. >>
If you run the numbers on the Mantle PSA 8 and use the starting point at $78,000 and the ending point at $268,000 you have a 243% advance in four and a half years. This means it has averaged a 54% appreciation rate. I personally do not think it is a stretch to think this trend finds a near term plateau.
None of us really know how this will play out and are just making educated guesses. I have no skin in the game and will be happy if a year from now it is much higher for those who do. On the flip side I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest to see it back off some. Anyone thinking this card is going to simply collapse is just fooling themselves unless we have an Armageddon like financial event again and you really can't truly plan for that with an investment like this.
There isn't a collectibles market in the world that is completely immune from over leveraged players having to be forced to make tough decisions with their items. There is no telling who owns all of the Mantle's and if a few ended up in weak hands that needed to be converted to cash quickly it will just depend on the state of the others in the market as to where they sell.
People discount that a rising market makes it easy to sell as the buyer is thinking their is upside and they will win even if the purchase is just meant for a short time. If the market stagnates it becomes harder to sell an item at full retail and there you go you start your slide.
I will never be in the market for the 7's and 8's that are out there but what is going to be fun to watch is what these watershed sales will do to the 4's-6's as the large majority of collectors get priced out of the higher grades.IMO, all grades have been and will continue to come along for the ride. Just look at what that PWCC SGC 2 did.
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People discount that a rising market makes it easy to sell as the buyer is thinking their is upside and they will win even if the purchase is just meant for a short time. If the market stagnates it becomes harder to sell an item at full retail and there you go you start your slide. >>
Many experts predict that's basically what is coming our way due to how rigged and manipulated the market/economy is. They are propping this thing up with smoke and mirrors, while powerful nations are meeting and making plans to do away with our dollar as the world's reserve currency because they see through the nonsense that is being sold to the American people that things are improving. The bottom line is, you can't continue to monetize debt like the FR has been doing without an eventual crash, and a hard one like we have never seen in America. Just like when the Titanic went down, they were partying right up to the last minute because 'the Titanic couldn't possibly sink'. We know how that ended. Right now we are riding a high in sports card collectibles that can't possibly sustain with the real world issues we are facing as a country. Everything has an eventual correction.
To touch on your short term purchase comments; What many regular folks in this hobby consider rich men are not all that rich in the bigger scheme of things. I know my share of millionaires, thanks to the business members of my family are in, and they move money around all of the time. Most don't buy things like high dollar baseball cards just to keep. They are simply places to park cash for a period of time. Watch the big auction houses and see how many of these big ticket cards pop back up for sale. It happens more than most realize. And it's not uncommon for them to take losses to free up some capital if they have other opportunities they want to pursue.
My advice; Enjoy your cards and this great hobby, but never put anything in that you can't afford to lose. Whether it's a $50 card, or a $260,000 Mantle.
<< <i>Dpeck - thanks for the link and already at $300k. I had said a while back 8's would go for $500-600k if nice and centered, and this one had great eye appeal. Shudder to think of one of the 3 PSA 10's ever went on the block - could rival the Gretzky Wagner for all time price. >>
A Mantle 10 I believe would surpass 3 million all day.
So much bragging rights with that piece of American history.
In fact, one of the PSA 10s went for 125K in 1992 e.g. Just imagine what one of those will set ya back now?