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PM Markets down staggering numbers

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  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,824 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Could this be the day that COMEX defaults on delivery? Very strange price swings show the East/West battle over metals.

    Are the Asians holding all those contracts that have reached their moment of truth?

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,150 ✭✭✭✭✭
    But wait! There's more!
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,150 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are we having fun yet?
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • bestmrbestmr Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭
    Wheeeeee!!!! What a fun ride! image
    Positive dealing with oilstates2003, rkfish, Scrapman1077, Weather11am, Guitarwes, Twosides2acoin, Hendrixkat, Sevensteps, CarlWohlforth, DLBack, zug, wildjag, tetradrachm, tydye, NotSure, AgBlox, Seemyauction, Stopmotion, Zubie, Fivecents, Musky1011, Bstat1020, Gsa1fan several times, and Mkman123 LOTS of times
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
    lol. what a mess!

    I'm not so sure that price really matters anymore.image
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Big gap downs......lead to big gap fills. Only took 10 hours. The 7 point swing from 79 to 72 in GSR in under 10 hours was amazing. Holiday pocket picking routine for both bulls and bears. Now back to business.

    The 2 week chart pattern in gold (exp wedge Nov 14-17) was projecting a target of $1147 by today. As bearish as that seemed on Nov 21st once the pattern was formed.....that's what played out.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Man everyone is doom and gloom.

    Anyone have ASE's for sale near spot? image

    For real though, can anyone find reputable dealers that have adjusted prices accordingly? Apmex has barely budged and their 20 ASE sale they had on ebay actually rose by $20ish for the auction haha. >>



    Even the Mint doesn't have them for spot and they have a leg up on most everbody. I spect they probably have some with spots tho.

    HTHimage
    theknowitalltroll;
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
    QE or not QE, that that is the question—
    Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to suffer
    The Slings and Arrows of outrageous Fortune,
    Or to take Arms against a Sea of troubles,
    And by opposing, end them?

    I think that if they pull another QE, gold is going up.
    People will start realizing what's going on - that it can't go on forever, and some of them will pull money from stocks.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    Thanks for posting the article about the paper boys buying contracts for PM in the west and the hard metal boys buying the underlying asset in the east. Certainly an interesting way for the east to shed all those USD's and get some physical assets in return. Wondering if someone is expecting a flood? Reminds me of the argument of "If there is a flood, would you rather have a contract for a boat or an actual boat?"

    Boat
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Thanks for posting the article about the paper boys buying contracts for PM in the west and the hard metal boys buying the underlying asset in the east. Certainly an interesting way for the east to shed all those USD's and get some physical assets in return. Wondering if someone is expecting a flood? Reminds me of the argument of "If there is a flood, would you rather have a contract for a boat or an actual boat?"

    Boat >>




    Well, of course all those traders and professional money managers out there would state they prefer the "paper" boat for increased "liquidity." image

    The night before the flood the paper boat still floats. It's the day when the flood hits when things get all wet.


    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To take the analogy further, even if you ARE expecting a flood, would you rather have a dozen actual boats, or would you rather have one actual boat, AND a contract for another boat that you can sell, PLUS a spare house on high ground, and a share of a boat repair business, and a share of a boat fuel & provision company, and a share of a flood damage repair business, and a share of a hotel located on high ground, and a share of a restaurant on high ground, and shares of other stuff still around after the flood?

    OR are you expecting the big BIG (biblical-type) flood? In which case, no regular boat gonna save ya... gonna need an Ark (and an inside tip from a diety doesn't hurt either ) image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
    would you rather have a dozen actual boats, or would you rather have one actual boat, AND a contract for another boat that you can sell, PLUS a spare house on high ground, and a share of a boat repair business, and a share of a boat fuel & provision company, and a share of a flood damage repair business, and a share of a hotel located on high ground, and a share of a restaurant on high ground, and shares of other stuff still around after the flood?

    In the middle of a flood, are you sure that you want to try to manage all of that extra stuff? Better hope you have good management in place and that the cell towers are still working.

    Baley, you're starting to sound like a prepper.image
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,225 ✭✭✭✭✭



    The only boat a stacker needs

    image
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Certainly an interesting way for the east to shed all those USD's and get some physical assets in return.

    I keep wondering if they'll take a significant stake in somewhere like California.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,091 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Thanks for posting the article about the paper boys buying contracts for PM in the west and the hard metal boys buying the underlying asset in the east. Certainly an interesting way for the east to shed all those USD's and get some physical assets in return. Wondering if someone is expecting a flood? Reminds me of the argument of "If there is a flood, would you rather have a contract for a boat or an actual boat?"

    Boat >>




    Well, of course all those traders and professional money managers out there would state they prefer the "paper" boat for increased "liquidity." image

    The night before the flood the paper boat still floats. It's the day when the flood hits when things get all wet. >>




    and if the flood STILL hasn't hit, those paper boats can still be sold at the last minute

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,824 ✭✭✭✭✭
    tonight's action should prove interesting after a $2+ silver climb in less than 24 hrs.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>.....and if the flood STILL hasn't hit, those paper boats can still be sold at the last minute >>




    The flood hit last night at the Sydney open yet all those PM and energy bear ETF's (and stocks) couldn't be sold for big profits. By the time the market opened this morning those big gains (ie the paper boat) had vanished. The market doesn't always give a nice opportunity to dump your paper boats.

    PM market down staggering numbers last night.........and up even more staggering numbers today. Gold's +$78 swing was the biggest one day up move since June 1st 2012 (+$85). Oil had a similar daily move not seen in years. Weak bulls and weak bears were blown out this past week or two.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,150 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wonder if any dealers had customers trying to renege on orders first thing this morning?
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,138 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I wonder if any dealers had customers trying to renege on orders first thing this morning? >>



    The major bullion dealers all require a credit card number. You agree to terms that include them charging the drop in price to your credit card if you back out by not sending in payment.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    Holiday pocket picking routine for both bulls and bears

    Do you mean there was manipulation going on? (deeep gasp)
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Right now gold is UP $53 and silver is UP $1.60. Would any sellers be canceling orders? Seems to me gold closed around $1150 [down about $35]on Friday. I think what was seen as a loss last night was just a continuation of Friday's number and not actual live pricing. If gold dropped $5 after open at around 5 pm here it was shown as being being down $40 instead of down $5.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • mariner67mariner67 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭
    I tracked spot price drops and corresponding specific silver product price drops throughout this last night on a major dealers web site.
    The fact they continued to drop to me indicates it was not a delayed Friday close.
    I am not an "expert" however.
    It sure seemed real!
    Successful trades/buys/sells with gdavis70, adriana, wondercoin, Weiss, nibanny, IrishMike, commoncents05, pf70collector, kyleknap, barefootjuan, coindeuce, WhiteTornado, Nefprollc, ajw, JamesM, PCcoins, slinc, coindudeonebay,beernuts, and many more
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,091 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I thought the no vote was a non factor

    I did not expect this

    I would call this massive short covering off the $1150 test and hold from last night.



    Did anyone have a strong belief the Swiss referendum would pass?


    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bigger factors in play:

    1. India got rid of its onerous 80-20 gold import/export rule.

    2. Gold may be sniffing out a top in the dollar (and gold to silver ratio). A 6 month rally coming to and end could easily flip gold. Time will tell.

    3. Stock market potentially losing steam again after a monumental 6 week rally where it never pulled back for more than 1 day.

    4. Gold forward rates at extremes not seen since 1998-2001 (1 month rate currently at -0.58%). This action typically occurs near major multi-year bottoms. This rate has gone below 1% in prior bottoms. In 2008 it only made it to -0.15%. This signifies major stress on the credit/banking systems. Someone is willing to "pay" gold holders a premium just to lease gold. The gold physical market seems to be suggesting there are holes in the paper gold markets.

    The last 6 Decembers (at least until mid-month in some cases) have been bearish for gold. Would be an abrupt change if that streak ended in 2014.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • ARCOARCO Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Those who still think manipulation isn't happening should be biyitch slapped about the face repeatedly. This is a CLASSIC example of it.
    Thinly traded market over a US holiday weekend and someone with the ability to cause this IS making it a reality. I say that's manipulation by definition. >>


    If I had the power to manipulate commodities markets, to somehow see the big picture and all the unintended consequences my manipulations might cause, I would be retired on a sunny island in the Bahamas, not piddling around to make gold drop by $25 overnight in the Asian markets for some faceless "elite".

    Who do you suppose "manipulated" the markets UP today?

    Tyler
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>....who do you suppose "manipulated" the markets UP today? Tyler >>



    Probably the same people responsible for taking it down during Friday-Sunday night.

    Most of the biggest players carry both sizable long and short gold positions. Therefore they can profit in either direction from whipsaws. Even the tiny small specs are fairly evenly split across the longs vs. shorts.

    Commitment of Trader positions - CME
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,091 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Below 1% or Below -1% ?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I tracked spot price drops and corresponding specific silver product price drops throughout this last night on a major dealers web site.
    The fact they continued to drop to me indicates it was not a delayed Friday close.
    I am not an "expert" however.
    It sure seemed real! >>



    I did the same. Their sell price was constant from close at 5 pm on Friday the 28th thru Sun the 30th at 5 pm. It started dropping late last night and I was anticipating buying some ASEs. When I got up this morning the sell price was over my spending limit and spot was starting to pull up.
    theknowitalltroll;
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