<< <i>Yes but this is the "jobs" and "stock market" president who is scrambling for any remnants of a legacy. >>
So, your argument is that Obama wants his legacy to be high oil prices? Ohhh K.
What if Obama breaks the dictatorships of Venezuela, Russia and Iran without firing a shot, and sows instability in Saudi to boot? Politics aside, wouldn't that actually be in the top 5 of greatest foreign policy moves in American history? Not at all saying it will happen, but if it did even you dark clouders would have to at least give a tiny bit of grudging respect. It's a billy bigballs move from a guy who has made very few of them.
I think falling oil prices are not a sign of a future long opportunities they are just going to give us a peek at how wretched our economy actually is under all the BS . Don't be too quick to toss money at any energy sector plays
So, your argument is that Obama wants his legacy to be high oil prices? Ohhh K.
He may have changed his mind by now, but he's made some awful statements in the past about making it much more expensive to use fossil fuels, specifically coal but not excluding oil & gas. He's so out of it on energy policy that he actually went down to Cushing about a year ago to tell them all about how he was creating jobs. He scratches Warren Buffett's back by not approving Keystone XL so that Warren can make money hauling crude on Burlington Northern, never mind raising the transport costs and the impact on consumers. And then he spouts off about creating jobs. Crazy stuff.
The biggest losers from sanctions on Russia may well be Europe from an energy supply standpoint and our own Bakken and shale oil plays. Venezuela, Saudi and Iran have cheap oil and can sell it competitively. There are always lots of buyers. The bigger question is whether or not Saudi is really running dry compared to 30 years ago. Once the overall cost structure changes for real, prices will bounce back faster than you can say "lickety split".
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>What if Obama breaks the dictatorships of Venezuela, Russia and Iran without firing a shot, and sows instability in Saudi to boot? >>
Why do you believe that Obama has any interest in breaking up any dictatorships? Seems to be his preferred method of governance. ie Amnestry for illegals.
It is disingenuous for anyone to suggest that oil or any other industry for that matter is not entitled to a government bailout. The precedent for that was established even before Chrysler in 1980 or again in the late part of the last decade a second time, along with GM, Delphi, Wells Fargo, AIG, Citibank, General Electric, American Express, Goldman Sachs, Chase and a whole bucket of other "too big to fail" entities. Seems that the first bailouts were Lockheed and Penn Central in the early 1970's.
At any rate, once a taxpayers dollars are used to save the next guys job, how can you tell the fellow that works in the oil fields for Chevron that he is SOL when his job is lost for reasons out of his control? You cannot and should not. In a world of broadening entitlements, like it or not, this is the only fair and equitable outcome.
Not my ideal for societal economics, but lets be consistent as we march into fiscal hell with a stupid grin on our face.
It appears that the PTB are driving oil prices down in an attempt to bankrupt/hurt Russia. When they are done with them, watch those oil prices rocket back up and we will be paying out the rump in the future. We little people of the US will not get out of this unharmed. We are just receiving a temporary pardon.
It is all about putting the squeeze on Russia, hurting their economy by driving gas, oil and gold down. Russia is a commodity driven economy, when the economy started biting oil they put their money in gold - now the button pushers in Washington are driving the price of gold down as the next step.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
<< <i>It is all about putting the squeeze on Russia, hurting their economy by driving gas, oil and gold down. Russia is a commodity driven economy, when the economy started biting oil they put their money in gold - now the button pushers in Washington are driving the price of gold down as the next step. >>
Why wouldn't this be all about OPEC realizing they can't control the price as well now, and figuring the price would fall anyway, given the volume of new oil coming on the market? Why would places like Iran, Ecuador and Venezuela be motivated to "put the squeeze" on Russia?
Iran and Venezuela are also getting the squeeze here. It may also be about the OPEC trying to cripple the fracking/shale boomers in the US….trying to maintain market share. The US shale/frackers however can still make a profit at roughly a $42/barrel bottom price point so most will survive. Smaller ones may fold. Russia, Iran and Venezuela have their economies pegged to a much higher price point….roughly $80-110/barrel so they probably are the main targets.
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<< <i>What if Obama breaks the dictatorships of Venezuela, Russia and Iran without firing a shot, and sows instability in Saudi to boot? Politics aside, wouldn't that actually be in the top 5 of greatest foreign policy moves in American history? >>
...and China will go shopping. Every silver lining has a dark cloud.
You can bet US banks are also taking big losses. As the oil related losses climb could this become banking's feared black swan that pushes them back over the edge? Will their greed catch up with them once again?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>What if Obama breaks the dictatorships of Venezuela, Russia and Iran without firing a shot, and sows instability in Saudi to boot? Politics aside, wouldn't that actually be in the top 5 of greatest foreign policy moves in American history? >>
The U.S.'s role in "determining" the future course of foreign nations already ranks in the top 5 worst foreign policy moves in American history. Doubt if they can successfully cancel those out with five "good" ones.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Iran and Venezuela are also getting the squeeze here. It may also be about the OPEC trying to cripple the fracking/shale boomers in the US….trying to maintain market share. The US shale/frackers however can still make a profit at roughly a $42/barrel bottom price point so most will survive. Smaller ones may fold. >>
Given the way shale oil is recovered, it is not possible to 'squeeze' those drillers. Conventional wells can be handicapped and lose volume after a shutdown and recovery potentially destroying the economics of that well. This is not so with shale wells.
$2.47/gal 'round here. Sure keeps a few dollars from leaving my wallet. Saving about $40/month and I don't drive a whole lot. I'm sure the long distance commuters are breathing a sigh of relief, surely now that it's Christmastime.
@ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work. Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>Would any of you vote yes on a 5 or 10 cent/gallon added tax if the money went to fix roads and bridges? >>
No, have voted that before and will always vote for that. It's already in there for exactly that purpose, and they use it for other stuff. 40-70+ cents is already in there as tax, not giving them another inch so they can take a mile.
<< <i>Would any of you vote yes on a 5 or 10 cent/gallon added tax if the money went to fix roads and bridges? >>
No, have voted that before and will always vote for that. It's already in there for exactly that purpose, and they use it for other stuff. 40-70+ cents is already in there as tax, not giving them another inch so they can take a mile.
<< <i>Would any of you vote yes on a 5 or 10 cent/gallon added tax if the money went to fix roads and bridges? >>
No, have voted that before and will always vote for that. It's already in there for exactly that purpose, and they use it for other stuff. 40-70+ cents is already in there as tax, not giving them another inch so they can take a mile.
No kidding. Referendum in our county requested $20,000,000 for a new animal shelter. I love dogs and cats and horses, but $20,000,000?
It passed, now the homeless activists are demanding at least as much for a new facility.
When does it end? >>
We're the third highest with 66.5c in taxes. Our roads still suck. Signage makes no sense. Traffic flow is poor. Constant closures on H1. I'm fortunate I don't work in Town. If I did it would not be paradise.
Now that housing has been re-inflated it will take the next deflation bullet.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Would any of you vote yes on a 5 or 10 cent/gallon added tax if the money went to fix roads and bridges? >>
Washington state voted for that years ago and while I can't comment on the roads over on the west side of the state, the roads around Spokane sure could use that money, where ever it goes. I know you can drive to Idaho and save almost $.20 per gallon.
Positive dealing with oilstates2003, rkfish, Scrapman1077, Weather11am, Guitarwes, Twosides2acoin, Hendrixkat, Sevensteps, CarlWohlforth, DLBack, zug, wildjag, tetradrachm, tydye, NotSure, AgBlox, Seemyauction, Stopmotion, Zubie, Fivecents, Musky1011, Bstat1020, Gsa1fan several times, and Mkman123 LOTS of times
Since the mega banks have been trading heavily in oil related pproducts and derivatives it will be interesting to see when their "London Oil Whale" surfaces.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Losers will certainly include those who leveraged investments into the boomtowns which caused wages and prices for many things to increase locally, while supply of labor housing, and goods was strained, in the Dakotas and elsewhere due to the boom. Regression toward the mean always hurts those who bet heavily that trends will continue in one direction, and borrow to do it.
Putin is the biggest loser hands down. Airlines the biggest winner
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Losers: Gas guzzler buyers that are making purchases figuring low oil prices are here to stay. These same vehicles will be dumped back on the market in a couple of years.
This drop has been so rapid that the rebound to $90-$100 is going to catch a lot of people by surprised who changed their habits figuring on $2.00-$3.00 gas for a long time. 6 to 8 yr lows in the commodity sectors tend to end in sharp declines....followed by significant recoveries. How soon we forget 2008 where oil drop 78% in only 7 months ($147 to $33). It then went up 2.5X in 1 yr, and a total of 3.5X in 2 yrs.
How soon we forget 2008 where oil drop 78% in only 7 months ($147 to $33). It then went up 2.5X in 1 yr, and a total of 3.5X in 2 yrs.
And a whopping 60% in 6 years. 9% annualized increase. Ho hum.
Oil was overpriced at $100, now it is returning to norm. The rate of decent to current levels indicates a sizable bounce in imminent, but the 6 year bear market is not dead. Just because something was much higher in the past doesnt mean that was the sustainable price. Again, example silver. Another example will be copper which still has another 30% to fall. Chile, Peru, Russia, Australia.......sorry for the bad news. And wait till the pull the rug out from under palladium.
Electrical power providers using oil fired generators. Consumer price of electricity remains the same, cost to produce electricity from oil becomes considerably less expensive.
I tried posting three times and each time the screen hung up without letting me know whether the post went through. After I gave up and left the computer, all three posts showed up.
On the positive side, it gave a little boost to my post count!
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Comments
<< <i>Yes but this is the "jobs" and "stock market" president who is scrambling for any remnants of a legacy. >>
So, your argument is that Obama wants his legacy to be high oil prices? Ohhh K.
What if Obama breaks the dictatorships of Venezuela, Russia and Iran without firing a shot, and sows instability in Saudi to boot? Politics aside, wouldn't that actually be in the top 5 of greatest foreign policy moves in American history? Not at all saying it will happen, but if it did even you dark clouders would have to at least give a tiny bit of grudging respect. It's a billy bigballs move from a guy who has made very few of them.
I think falling oil prices are not a sign of a future long opportunities they are just going to give us a peek at how wretched our economy actually is under all the BS . Don't be too quick to toss money at any energy sector plays
this remarkable economist agrees with me
He may have changed his mind by now, but he's made some awful statements in the past about making it much more expensive to use fossil fuels, specifically coal but not excluding oil & gas. He's so out of it on energy policy that he actually went down to Cushing about a year ago to tell them all about how he was creating jobs. He scratches Warren Buffett's back by not approving Keystone XL so that Warren can make money hauling crude on Burlington Northern, never mind raising the transport costs and the impact on consumers. And then he spouts off about creating jobs. Crazy stuff.
The biggest losers from sanctions on Russia may well be Europe from an energy supply standpoint and our own Bakken and shale oil plays. Venezuela, Saudi and Iran have cheap oil and can sell it competitively. There are always lots of buyers. The bigger question is whether or not Saudi is really running dry compared to 30 years ago. Once the overall cost structure changes for real, prices will bounce back faster than you can say "lickety split".
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>What if Obama breaks the dictatorships of Venezuela, Russia and Iran without firing a shot, and sows instability in Saudi to boot? >>
Why do you believe that Obama has any interest in breaking up any dictatorships? Seems to be his preferred method of governance. ie Amnestry for illegals.
It is disingenuous for anyone to suggest that oil or any other industry for that matter is not entitled to a government bailout. The precedent for that was established even before Chrysler in 1980 or again in the late part of the last decade a second time, along with GM, Delphi, Wells Fargo, AIG, Citibank, General Electric, American Express, Goldman Sachs, Chase and a whole bucket of other "too big to fail" entities. Seems that the first bailouts were Lockheed and Penn Central in the early 1970's.
At any rate, once a taxpayers dollars are used to save the next guys job, how can you tell the fellow that works in the oil fields for Chevron that he is SOL when his job is lost for reasons out of his control? You cannot and should not. In a world of broadening entitlements, like it or not, this is the only fair and equitable outcome.
Not my ideal for societal economics, but lets be consistent as we march into fiscal hell with a stupid grin on our face.
Oil and Gas ETF's
<< <i>It is all about putting the squeeze on Russia, hurting their economy by driving gas, oil and gold down. Russia is a commodity driven economy, when the economy started biting oil they put their money in gold - now the button pushers in Washington are driving the price of gold down as the next step. >>
Why wouldn't this be all about OPEC realizing they can't control the price as well now, and figuring the price would fall anyway, given the volume of new oil coming on the market? Why would places like Iran, Ecuador and Venezuela be motivated to "put the squeeze" on Russia?
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
It may also be about the OPEC trying to cripple the fracking/shale boomers in the US….trying to maintain market share.
The US shale/frackers however can still make a profit at roughly a $42/barrel bottom price point so most will survive. Smaller ones may fold.
Russia, Iran and Venezuela have their economies pegged to a much higher price point….roughly $80-110/barrel so they probably are the main targets.
<< <i>What if Obama breaks the dictatorships of Venezuela, Russia and Iran without firing a shot, and sows instability in Saudi to boot? Politics aside, wouldn't that actually be in the top 5 of greatest foreign policy moves in American history? >>
...and China will go shopping. Every silver lining has a dark cloud.
You can bet US banks are also taking big losses. As the oil related losses climb could this become banking's feared black swan that pushes them back over the edge? Will their greed catch up with them once again?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>What if Obama breaks the dictatorships of Venezuela, Russia and Iran without firing a shot, and sows instability in Saudi to boot? Politics aside, wouldn't that actually be in the top 5 of greatest foreign policy moves in American history? >>
The U.S.'s role in "determining" the future course of foreign nations already ranks in the top 5 worst foreign policy moves in American history. Doubt if they can successfully cancel those out with five "good" ones.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
advanced
<< <i>Iran and Venezuela are also getting the squeeze here.
It may also be about the OPEC trying to cripple the fracking/shale boomers in the US….trying to maintain market share.
The US shale/frackers however can still make a profit at roughly a $42/barrel bottom price point so most will survive. Smaller ones may fold.
>>
Given the way shale oil is recovered, it is not possible to 'squeeze' those drillers. Conventional wells can be handicapped and lose volume after a shutdown and recovery potentially destroying the economics of that well. This is not so with shale wells.
Solution : Peace.
I don't think this is affecting the Amish too much.
<< <i>Solution : Peace. >>
Are you suggesting that ISIS be allowed to continue chopping off peoples heads?
yes ISIS can continue chopping until the catch up with Saudi Arabia . They are behind about 500 or so on the year .
How is our anti head chopping war with Saudia Arabia going? Oh that 's right we don't mind it when they do it .
<< <i>
<< <i>Solution : Peace. >>
Are you suggesting that ISIS be allowed to continue chopping off peoples heads? >>
Mark, are you kidding ? Where did you get the idea I was suggesting anything ?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Solution : Peace. >>
Are you suggesting that ISIS be allowed to continue chopping off peoples heads? >>
Mark, are you kidding ? Where did you get the idea I was suggesting anything ? >>
Peace is a great idea, except when the enemy refuses to play along.
<< <i>
<< <i>Solution : Peace. >>
Are you suggesting that ISIS be allowed to continue chopping off peoples heads? >>
I just wish our tax dollars would stop being used to finance them. This whole thing is a mirage my friend. Look deeper.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.
<< <i>Would any of you vote yes on a 5 or 10 cent/gallon added tax if the money went to fix roads and bridges? >>
No, have voted that before and will always vote for that. It's already in there for exactly that purpose, and they use it for other stuff. 40-70+ cents is already in there as tax, not giving them another inch so they can take a mile.
US fuel tax rates by state
<< <i>
<< <i>Would any of you vote yes on a 5 or 10 cent/gallon added tax if the money went to fix roads and bridges? >>
No, have voted that before and will always vote for that. It's already in there for exactly that purpose, and they use it for other stuff. 40-70+ cents is already in there as tax, not giving them another inch so they can take a mile.
US fuel tax rates by state >>
No kidding. Referendum in our county requested $20,000,000 for a new animal shelter. I love dogs and cats and horses, but $20,000,000?
It passed, now the homeless activists are demanding at least as much for a new facility.
When does it end?
<< <i>Would any of you vote yes on a 5 or 10 cent/gallon added tax if the money went to fix roads and bridges? >>
Why?
Wins: People who believe in Big Oil will be happy.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Would any of you vote yes on a 5 or 10 cent/gallon added tax if the money went to fix roads and bridges? >>
No, have voted that before and will always vote for that. It's already in there for exactly that purpose, and they use it for other stuff. 40-70+ cents is already in there as tax, not giving them another inch so they can take a mile.
US fuel tax rates by state >>
No kidding. Referendum in our county requested $20,000,000 for a new animal shelter. I love dogs and cats and horses, but $20,000,000?
It passed, now the homeless activists are demanding at least as much for a new facility.
When does it end? >>
We're the third highest with 66.5c in taxes. Our roads still suck. Signage makes no sense. Traffic flow is poor. Constant closures on H1. I'm fortunate I don't work in Town. If I did it would not be paradise.
Paid 3.419 yesterday at COSTCO.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Paid 3.419 yesterday at COSTCO. >>
But look what you save on macadamia nuts!
<< <i>Would any of you vote yes on a 5 or 10 cent/gallon added tax if the money went to fix roads and bridges? >>
Washington state voted for that years ago and while I can't comment on the roads over on the west side of the state, the roads around Spokane sure could use that money, where ever it goes. I know you can drive to Idaho and save almost $.20 per gallon.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Well, consumers of oil win, that list is large.
Losers will certainly include those who leveraged investments into the boomtowns which caused wages and prices for many things to increase locally, while supply of labor housing, and goods was strained, in the Dakotas and elsewhere due to the boom. Regression toward the mean always hurts those who bet heavily that trends will continue in one direction, and borrow to do it.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>Time to change the title to $57 oil . . . >>
...man, I feel like the teenager scampering up the price sign at Morrie's service station in the middle of a price war!
This drop has been so rapid that the rebound to $90-$100 is going to catch a lot of people by surprised who changed their habits figuring on $2.00-$3.00 gas for a long time. 6 to 8 yr lows in the commodity sectors tend to end in sharp declines....followed by significant recoveries. How soon we forget 2008 where oil drop 78% in only 7 months ($147 to $33). It then went up 2.5X in 1 yr, and a total of 3.5X in 2 yrs.
And a whopping 60% in 6 years.
Oil was overpriced at $100, now it is returning to norm. The rate of decent to current levels indicates a sizable bounce in imminent, but the 6 year bear market is not dead. Just because something was much higher in the past doesnt mean that was the sustainable price. Again, example silver. Another example will be copper which still has another 30% to fall. Chile, Peru, Russia, Australia.......sorry for the bad news. And wait till the pull the rug out from under palladium.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Electrical power providers using oil fired generators. Consumer price of electricity remains the same, cost to produce electricity from oil becomes considerably less expensive.
Less griping from the buyers as well.
And give up ss, Medicare, all retirement investment, etc...
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>There is no price so low that it can't be raised by unlimited money printing. >>
They are already printing unlimited posts.
On the positive side, it gave a little boost to my post count!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey