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Fake Jordan PSA 10 on ebay

burke23burke23 Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
See here - http://www.ebay.com/itm/231375823438?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D231375823438%26_rdc%3D1#ht_25wt_1153

By chance on another forum, the seller (I assume) tried to trade it to the members friend at a discount. Another person happened to find out this exact cert is the one that matched the PSA 10 I happened to grade 2 years ago. I still have the scan even though I sold it right away - you can see by my scan they are totally different cards.
[URL=http://s599.photobucket.com/user/avrules2000/media/Sold-Traded/img247.jpg.html]image[/URL]

Sadness.
Looking for rare Randy Moss rookies and autos, as well as '97 PMG Red Football cards for my set.

Comments

  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,607 ✭✭✭✭
    That's a pretty good fake. Scary. Thanks for sharing with us.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • hyperchipper09hyperchipper09 Posts: 1,455 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "Absolute Stunner"
    If one ignores the print dots, the horrid registration around the border for a "Gem Mint 10", and the fact that it's a fake. I can understand how one could then say it's "an absolute stunner"
    image
  • KendallCatKendallCat Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is the kind of stuff that will push people out of the hobby - very scary to say the least.
  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,382 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So is that what the fake PSA cases look like now?
    ONly thing I can see that is different is the plastic between the top flip and the card has an extra 2 pins in it vs your 1st pic.
    Is that the way to tell the fakes now? Or is that on some of the true PSA cases as well. I dont have images of all the old cases and certs handy, so If anyone can give some extra info on this Id appreciate it.

    Nevermind. I just looked at about 25 cases I have had graded over this last year and I have about 3-4 different looking cases with different pins, some like this one, and then a couple different ones.
    How many different cases or the mold are there currently?

    So was this a crack out case with a fake flip I guess. Id guess that card wasnt cracked and regraded but a printed slip?
  • DniceDnice Posts: 848
    Wow, that is INSANE! A scan like that could have fooled me. Jeez, we need PSA to start changing their slabs cause this is too much now.
  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092 ✭
    Pretty sure the card is real, only it's an 8.5-9 in quality. This scam is on the same level as the SP Jeter that Probstein listed. I wouldn't be surprised if the flip forger is the same for both cards.

    Lee
  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭
    Sorry to be a dunce but are you guys saying the card is fake and the PSA stuff is fake? How do you know for sure? I am not doubting. Just curious what the signs are.
  • ThoseBackPagesThoseBackPages Posts: 4,871 ✭✭
    Maybe I've been collecting slabs too long, but this listing, just like the Jeter earlier this year, the Flip is OFF upon first sight.

    Spending that kind of money, you'd think you'd do some visual research. never mind the Fleer card IN the slab looks fake as well
    Big Fan of: HOF Post War RC, Graded RCs
    WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
  • mlbfan2mlbfan2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭
    A difference I noticed is that on the fake one, the "O" in "JORDAN" (on the card, not the label) is a little too tall. Also, the "3" in the serial number is too small (although I don't know if that's sometimes true with real labels too).
  • MeatloafMeatloaf Posts: 1,308
    my goal is to own a readl psa 10 mj rc some day...but this type of stuff makes me stay away
  • goraidersgoraiders Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭
    Seller has a lot of psa graded cards,I wonder if he himself
    got duped and if he even knows its no good,if its in fact no good? After our hockey guy
    checks it all out he will let us know im sure.
    J.R.
    Needs'
    1972 Football-9's high#'s
    1965 Football-8's
    1958 Topps FB-7-8
  • mesapsamesapsa Posts: 306
    So how can you confirm that this is a fake card? Please post your proof before coming on a forum such as this with bogus information! This is the sort of thing that can spread fear here in the collecting world and it is really uncalled for! If you have information that the card is fake please also provide your proof!
  • mesapsamesapsa Posts: 306
    The way the card looks to me is that it is legit! I can see no problem with the card from my vantage point here.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The way the card looks to me is that it is legit! I can see no problem with the card from my vantage point here. >>



    The image on Ebay looks like it has been Xeroxed. Notice how is hand is not crisp like the one in the thread is - it sorta just blends into the background. Notice how his jersey looks...the image on Ebay just screams fake.
  • dberk12dberk12 Posts: 399 ✭✭


    << <i>my goal is to own a readl psa 10 mj rc some day...but this type of stuff makes me stay away >>



    I completely agree. There has been a lot of good Jordan buzz on these boards lately and I have this card in my cross hairs. I hate hearing about this dark side of the hobby.


    Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona.





    -George F. Will
  • DavisDavis Posts: 705 ✭✭
    To me, the proof is pretty obvious. He posted the original card. The PSA holder in the ebay auction is clearly fake because it has the stolen cert number. The cards are clearly different cards. On the fake card...look at the top of front. See how the skinny yellow boarder bleeds over the black line and into the red border on the fake? The original card has clean color separation. Very obvious.

    Also, on the bottom of the front of the fake, look at the "MICHAEL JORDAN" text. It's sloppy on the fake compared to the crispness on the real original. Same for the "Fleer" text on the top right.

    Also, if you're going to make a fake flip, why put real card in there? Most people won't look past the label and will assume it's real unless there are glaring problems.
  • mesapsamesapsa Posts: 306
    If I bought this from Probstein, a trusted eBay seller, I would send it to PSA for verification and if it was not legit I would hold PSA responsible for the situation as the new PSA holder is supposed to be newly improved to prevent "fake" cards from being inserted into the holder. Just my two cents.
  • DavisDavis Posts: 705 ✭✭
    The one sold by Probstein is real. The one currently on ebay is fake. The cards are clearly different.

    Also, PSA isn't going to be liable if someone makes a counterfeit holder. Since we know the real holder/label are out there (sold by Probstien), we know that the one on ebay is fake because they use the same certification number.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    Look at the dot on the defenders left shoulder (the gentleman that Jordan is dunking over). On the original, the dot is present. On the fake, the dot is absent.
  • mesapsamesapsa Posts: 306
    However, after looking at the larger scan it does look like a fake, however this image may have been altered.
  • DavisDavis Posts: 705 ✭✭


    << <i>Look at the dot on the defenders left shoulder (the gentleman that Jordan is dunking over). On the original, the dot is present. On the fake, the dot is absent. >>


    I think the dot on the defender is on the case or something from the camera. I don't think it's on the actual card. You can see it's not on the Probstein photo, which we think is the legit card sold in 2012.
  • mesapsamesapsa Posts: 306
    Stuff like this could be the ultimate doom to the hobby, this is very disturbing, if true and anyone doing this should be placed in jail for fraud, its a federal offense as well if placed on eBay as it passes interstate lines.
  • burke23burke23 Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Look at the dot on the defenders left shoulder (the gentleman that Jordan is dunking over). On the original, the dot is present. On the fake, the dot is absent. >>


    I think the dot on the defender is on the case or something from the camera. I don't think it's on the actual card. You can see it's not on the Probstein photo, which we think is the legit card sold
    in 2012. >>



    The probstein one is the one I subbed so I know it is real, which is why I posted the image from my photobucket account.

    My original http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=864375
    Looking for rare Randy Moss rookies and autos, as well as '97 PMG Red Football cards for my set.
  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,382 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So this thing should be coming off ebay??
  • mesapsamesapsa Posts: 306
    Yes, hopefully eBay will be notified and the card be de-listed if this indeed a fake card. After looking at the larger scan of the card it does look mighty shady. What I want to know is how does someone take one of these new PSA holders, open it up and replace a new card into it? You would think that PSA would have tested this new holder before putting it into full production. Who knows.....
  • charrigancharrigan Posts: 2,293
    Dot on the yellow border in the bottom right. On the fake, not the original.
  • BenGBenG Posts: 84
    IMHO.... Why anybody would want a PSA 10 with that huge 10k price tag over a high end BGS 9.5 is beyond me. BGS cases are almost impossible to fake or replace the card inside & offers far superior protection as well. Blows my mind. I swear that BGS use to have a registry too... So who cares about the PSA registry!? Just my thoughts because situations like this are really scary when dealing with that kinda $$
  • ergoismergoism Posts: 315 ✭✭✭
    There's pretty much one guy that makes all of these. There's a lot of things he hasn't perfected but he views these boards for info so I won't reveal too much. They're easy to distinguish in person. Do your homework when buying high end cards and get your stuff reslabbed if you're worried.
  • rcmb3220rcmb3220 Posts: 1,108 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>IMHO.... Why anybody would want a PSA 10 with that huge 10k price tag over a high end BGS 9.5 is beyond me. BGS cases are almost impossible to fake or replace the card inside & offers far superior protection as well. Blows my mind. I swear that BGS use to have a registry too... So who cares about the PSA registry!? Just my thoughts because situations like this are really scary when dealing with that kinda $$ >>



    You should check out forum rule #7.
  • KNAPPKNAPP Posts: 654 ✭✭✭
    BenG, the problem with BGS is that they grade trimmed cards and cards cut from sheet, but they don't annotate that on their holders. It's a crap shoot when you buy from them.
    the KNAPP collection - specializing in boxing and wrestling
    Always looking to buy or trade for Andre the Giant autographs
    psacard.com/psasetregistry/non-sports/famous-personage/andre-giant-master-set/alltimeset/180400


  • BenGBenG Posts: 84


    << <i>BenG, the problem with BGS is that they grade trimmed cards and cards cut from sheet, but they don't annotate that on their holders. It's a crap shoot when you buy from them. >>



    Oh wow I'm sorry! I didn't even know this was a PSA forum. Not trying to diss, just saying that apparently fakes of PSA cards/cases have been popping up at an alarming rate!

    What are sheet cut cards too? BGS grades these & aren't as valuable or something? How can you tell if you have a sheet cut card on let's say an 86 Fleer?
  • KNAPPKNAPP Posts: 654 ✭✭✭
    BenG, come on, cards cut from a sheet. If there is a buyer for something it has value. I just would like to know that if I'm buying a card I want to know if it came from a pack or cut from a sheet.
    the KNAPP collection - specializing in boxing and wrestling
    Always looking to buy or trade for Andre the Giant autographs
    psacard.com/psasetregistry/non-sports/famous-personage/andre-giant-master-set/alltimeset/180400


  • BenGBenG Posts: 84


    << <i>BenG, come on, cards cut from a sheet. If there is a buyer for something it has value. I just would like to know that if I'm buying a card I want to know if it came from a pack or cut from a sheet. >>


    Sir I get WHAT sheet cut cards are.... But how can one tell? For example you say "I would just like to know if I'm buying a card I want to know if it came from a pack or cut from a sheet" so apparently you would need THEM to tell you because you wouldn't be able to tell on your own right? And if that's the case what does it really matter? ALL cards are originally cut from a sheet and then put into packs. As long as the newly cut sheet cards were from the very original printing, what would it matter really? Just curious because I have a nice BGS 9 Jordan Fleer RC.... Never heard about there being a problem with which ones are "pack pulled" vs sheet cut you know? Any help would be greatly appreciated in distinguishing the difference?

    Edit: By the way here is my Jordan
    [URL=http://s786.photobucket.com/user/benmoss81/media/JORDANBGS9MINE_zpsb41d71b4.jpg.html]image[/URL]
  • mrmint23mrmint23 Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭
    That Jordan is definitely sheet cut. Notice top edge.
  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>BenG, the problem with BGS is that they grade trimmed cards and cards cut from sheet, but they don't annotate that on their holders. It's a crap shoot when you buy from them. >>



    Oh wow I'm sorry! I didn't even know this was a PSA forum. Not trying to diss, just saying that apparently fakes of PSA cards/cases have been popping up at an alarming rate!

    What are sheet cut cards too? BGS grades these & aren't as valuable or something? How can you tell if you have a sheet cut card on let's say an 86 Fleer? >>



    When BGS cards start selling for more than PSA cards you'll start seeing fake BGS slabs/flips too. I'm not a PSA apologist but c'mon, man.
  • vols1vols1 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Yes, hopefully eBay will be notified and the card be de-listed if this indeed a fake card. After looking at the larger scan of the card it does look mighty shady. What I want to know is how does someone take one of these new PSA holders, open it up and replace a new card into it? You would think that PSA would have tested this new holder before putting it into full production. Who knows..... >>



    Maybe someone got their hands on holders before they were welded together

    https://kennerstartinglineup.blogspot.com/

  • BenGBenG Posts: 84


    << <i>That Jordan is definitely sheet cut. Notice top edge. >>


    That's a chip on the edge. Nice try though
  • mrmint23mrmint23 Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭
    Also borders are to short and no way it's a 10 centering.
  • MapleleafMapleleaf Posts: 506 ✭
    I'm thinking that someone is intercepting the supply of cases. Could easily be done for Beckett as well.
  • BenGBenG Posts: 84


    << <i>Also borders are to short and no way it's a 10 centering. >>



    Lol reaching again I see
  • mrmint23mrmint23 Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭
    Just showing why Psa is the superior company. Even my dead grandmother knows that!
  • BenGBenG Posts: 84


    << <i>Just showing why Psa is the superior company. Even my dead grandmother knows that! >>



    Sir I respectfully disagree with you. I believe your very first comment about the card in my original thread was "PWCC just sold a BGS 9 with 10 centering for 2600, yours is 0.5 better. Hope you got a better deal. Nice card" .... And now all of the sudden it's "miscut" "off centered" ect ect .... Sir I encourage you to check out PWCC's scan of that other BGS9 you were talking about with the 10 centering & compare the cards. No way is my card miscut or undeserving of the 10 centering. I posted an HD scan of the card that was provided to me by another member here, I just don't see how you can say these things? The card is a tad uneven IN the actual case, you can see that at the bottom. So what you may think is miscut really is just the card being a tad tilted in one direction within the case.

    Really ridiculous to put down someone's card when all evidence points to it being a legit high grade 9

    I hope you have an iPhone, because if you do, zoom in at the bottom left edge. It is lower than the right edge because the card within the case itself was placed in there uneven by a hair. It is no way miscut, off centered, or sheet cut. The card has sold for thousands of dollars on multiple occasions since it was graded. Highly doubt hardcore collectors spending that kind of money (myself included) would have not spotted obvious huge flaws. 86 Fleers aren't going to be 100% perfect in every aspect, the printing technology & cutting technology just wasn't what it is today back in the 80's
  • sbfinleysbfinley Posts: 357 ✭✭


    << <i>So how can you confirm that this is a fake card? Please post your proof before coming on a forum such as this with bogus information! This is the sort of thing that can spread fear here in the collecting world and it is really uncalled for! If you have information that the card is fake please also provide your proof! >>





    << <i>The way the card looks to me is that it is legit! I can see no problem with the card from my vantage point here. >>





    << <i>If I bought this from Probstein, a trusted eBay seller, I would send it to PSA for verification and if it was not legit I would hold PSA responsible for the situation as the new PSA holder is supposed to be newly improved to prevent "fake" cards from being inserted into the holder. Just my two cents. >>





    << <i>However, after looking at the larger scan it does look like a fake, however this image may have been altered. >>





    << <i>Stuff like this could be the ultimate doom to the hobby, this is very disturbing, if true and anyone doing this should be placed in jail for fraud, its a federal offense as well if placed on eBay as it passes interstate lines. >>





    << <i>Yes, hopefully eBay will be notified and the card be de-listed if this indeed a fake card. After looking at the larger scan of the card it does look mighty shady. What I want to know is how does someone take one of these new PSA holders, open it up and replace a new card into it? You would think that PSA would have tested this new holder before putting it into full production. Who knows..... >>




    This is amazing. Please give me more...


  • mrmint23mrmint23 Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭
    Benjoey, my pregnant dead grandmother just said your Jordan was the best sheet cut card she had never seen.
  • BenGBenG Posts: 84


    << <i>Benjoey, my pregnant dead grandmother just said your Jordan was the best sheet cut card she had never seen. >>



    Well I think I'll trust a professional grader over your jealousy and even your dead grandmother. Pretty low class of you to keep up with the bogus "he's Joey" crap & also to speak of your grandma like that. Grow up & get a life.

    It's guys like you, who just make up crap out of no where that shouldn't be allowed to be apart of any community. Care to share who this "Joey" is to the rest of us so we can better understand your looney conspiracy theory? I'm starting to wonder "mrmint" now, if you're that "Allan Mr.Mint" guy aka "let me scam/rob some little old people of their old valuable baseball cards by offering them pennies on the dollar for each one lmao. See how it feels for your conspiracy garbage to be flipped on you "Allan"
  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭
    << If I bought this from Probstein, a trusted eBay seller, I would send it to PSA for verification and if it was not legit I would hold PSA responsible for the situation as the new PSA holder is supposed to be newly improved to prevent "fake" cards from being inserted into the holder. Just my two cents. >>

    LOL. How would PSA be responsible? Good luck with that one.

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