Wrestling cards
TheMick6
Posts: 582
First Id like to state that this isn't a knock on wrestling or wrestling cards at all. In fact there probably wasnt a bigger fan from 82-88 of wrestling then myself. I just don't know what drives that market? I see all the post on here and I know it has its fans but I never and I mean never see wrestling stuff at shows or conventions. Am I just not seeing it? Is it a strictly ebay market? Like I said I love me some Slick Rick but laying out big bucks for that 82 card of his, will that hold up over time? Just a topic not a dig at all in fact I watched a jim Crockett promotions DVD set last night.
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Comments
<< <i>First Id like to state that this isn't a knock on wrestling or wrestling cards at all. In fact there probably wasnt a bigger fan from 82-88 of wrestling then myself. I just don't know what drives that market? I see all the post on here and I know it has its fans but I never and I mean never see wrestling stuff at shows or conventions. Am I just not seeing it? Is it a strictly ebay market? Like I said I love me some Slick Rick but laying out big bucks for that 82 card of his, will that hold up over time? Just a topic not a dig at all in fact I watched a jim Crockett promotions DVD set last night. >>
I went to the national a few years ago in Baltimore and there was very little for me at all and another collector friend of mine has went and hardly saw anything as well. There is a part of me that thinks it would be awesome to set up shop at the national with a bunch of wrestling cards as there does not seem to be anyone at all with the product. It almost makes me overwhelmed to go from table to table and to see the same type items or have to be really diligent to uncover a great card from a dealer. I have no idea how a dealer would do with wrestling stuff, but you would have to think that by being "different" there would be a decent chance of doing well for yourself if you have product that no one else has. I would think at minimum it would be good for a dealer to have an early card of Andre the Giant or Hulk Hogan just to catch eyeballs at your table. There are a lot of collectors that do not search wrestling cards on ebay but may have interest in a card of Andre or Hulk if they saw one at a show. Interesting topic indeed and thanks for your post.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
The reason for the prices of some of the sets, is that the supply is, and always was, very low in contrast to the major sports releases.
There may have been 2000 - 3000 of the 1982 Wrestling All Stars sets ever produced, and the vast majority were not handled carefully, or kept at all.
By 1990, they were almost impossible to find. Now they are very scarce in high grade, and the number of people who would like to have them far exceeds the number of cards available.
Ditto some of the other sets...
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
<< <i>The market is supply and demand, just like any other.
The reason for the prices of some of the sets, is that the supply is, and always was, very low in contrast to the major sports releases.
There may have been 2000 - 3000 of the 1982 Wrestling All Stars sets ever produced, and the vast majority were not handled carefully, or kept at all.
By 1990, they were almost impossible to find. Now they are very scarce in high grade, and the number of people who would like to have them far exceeds the number of cards available.
Ditto some of the other sets... >>
Very well said here. I have been very fortunate to have many wrestling cards graded for the very first time. Imagine how excited collectors are when they see some of their very favorite wrestlers in a PSA slab with low pops instead of seeing the overproduced junk from the late 1980s and early 1990s. I am auctioning some PSA 6s of some wrestling cards from the early 1980s right now and they are over $100 and they are not Hogan, Andre, Flair, etc. Unlike sports where a master set is so beyond reality there is no point in even trying, there are some very popular wrestlers where you can collect all their cards and pay better money per card since you are not chasing a thousand or more cards. The wrestling buying pool may not be especially deep, but it does not have to be. There are enough pockets of collectors that keeps the market moving. If I have a card of The Crusher, I have a few buyers in the Milwaukee area that always pops up in addition to some of the general collectors, etc. While a sports athlete may have a career of perhaps ten years or a little more a wrestler may perform double or triple that time frame and acquire fans all during that time.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>
<< <i>The market is supply and demand, just like any other.
The reason for the prices of some of the sets, is that the supply is, and always was, very low in contrast to the major sports releases.
There may have been 2000 - 3000 of the 1982 Wrestling All Stars sets ever produced, and the vast majority were not handled carefully, or kept at all.
By 1990, they were almost impossible to find. Now they are very scarce in high grade, and the number of people who would like to have them far exceeds the number of cards available.
Ditto some of the other sets... >>
Very well said here. I have been very fortunate to have many wrestling cards graded for the very first time. Imagine how excited collectors are when they see some of their very favorite wrestlers in a PSA slab with low pops instead of seeing the overproduced junk from the late 1980s and early 1990s. I am auctioning some PSA 6s of some wrestling cards from the early 1980s right now and they are over $100 and they are not Hogan, Andre, Flair, etc. Unlike sports where a master set is so beyond reality there is no point in even trying, there are some very popular wrestlers where you can collect all their cards and pay better money per card since you are not chasing a thousand or more cards. The wrestling buying pool may not be especially deep, but it does not have to be. There are enough pockets of collectors that keeps the market moving. If I have a card of The Crusher, I have a few buyers in the Milwaukee area that always pops up in addition to some of the general collectors, etc. While a sports athlete may have a career of perhaps ten years or a little more a wrestler may perform double or triple that time frame and acquire fans all during that time. >>
Agree on all this. I am very new to wrestling cards but I've even been able to turn a $10 box of 1991 Impel WCW cards (you may have seen this product in yesterday's BBQ performance) into a nice profit after having a bunch of the cards graded. I've also done really well with the 1993 Topps CMLL cards that were released in Mexico.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
What has been really exciting is that over the past few years many new cards have been discovered from Japan and have given collectors other cards to chase and loads of additional sets have had cards submitted for grading. This has caused the size of the graded wrestling card market to expand exponentially.
One of the reasons I have been some what skeptical about some of the more common unopened baseball cards that many indicate are generally a losing proposition when opened is because of stories like Pmkay's. Opening a box of 1991 Impel and making a strong rate of return vs. losing potentially hundreds of dollars. If I had to bet there was easily a 400% profit net of fees on his part. Obviously in total dollars it is not huge but it is still impressive none the less.
It is hard to tell what will happen to prices in the long term. Everyone's definition is different but when I think of long term I think of 10 years or more. I personally think there are very few cards from all segments that you can forecast can't go down. There are a few but not many.
One of the things that has naturally helped increase the value of certain cards is the low population totals. Unless some hoard of cards is uncovered many of the tougher cards will remain low pop and some will permanently. Take my 1982 Wrestling All Stars Rick Martel PSA 9. This card will never have its pop blow up. On the flip side if you look at the 1985 Topps WWF #1 Hulk Hogan there are now 8 PSA 10's and that card has fallen a great deal and has leveled off in the $200+ range.
It always surprises me that people can't figure out what the attraction is. There are loads of non sport sets that have became extremely popular. The Three Stooges, Star Wars, Horrors of War and the list goes on and on.
If you were walking in the airport and saw many of the marquee HOF players from many of the major sports, a few die hard fans could quickly pick them out. Many of the wives would wonder what their husbands were staring at. On the flip side if Hulk Hogan is walking through the airport 80% or more of the people would notice. That number might be low. He is impossible to miss and you would have to live under a rock not to know who he is.
When you talk to adult males about wrestling it is amazing how their eyes light up and they have a story from when they were younger. Whether it is Haystacks Calhoun, The Great Mephisto, Chief Jay Strongbow, Jerry The King Lawler, Buddy Colt, the list goes on and on. Constantly the word nostalgia is thrown around when dealing with collectibles and the level related to wrestling is through the roof.
Recently I purchased a few wrestling auto's for my dad of guys he saw live in Orlando in the 70's and they are hung in the garage on his bulliton board. One of the guys was Johnny Walker who wrestled under the name Mr. Wrestling II and I also gave him a card and it is now on display. A co worker of mine was over at the house a few weeks ago and saw me shuffling through some cards I had just got back from PSA. One of them was Wahoo McDanial and his fishing partner constantly talks about seeing him wrestle. I gave him a graded copy to surprise his friend and it meant the world to him.
People cherish the old days and wrestling was wildly popular in many parts of the country. It may be frustrating to watch today but no one can argue with the global brand that the WWE is.
People like to collect things and wrestling cards are no different. The number one thing that holds them back is that many of the collectors of modern cards have been slow to adopt the grading element and simply can't afford many of the better cards. The prices have escalated on many substantially and it obviously takes resources to buy them. In recent years more and more collectors have emerged with deeper pockets. In general this is an EBAY market but tons of transactions take place in direct sales for strong prices. I personally do not sell much but when I do for the most part it is direct to specific collectors.
In the near term I don't see prices on the better cards seeing much downside risk. In recent weeks you have seen a collector back out of the Wrestling All Stars and listed cards at reasonable prices and they were snatched up in minutes. I have also seen two examples of the Don Muraco card in PSA 9 go for $122 and $125 within a week or so of each other. There were a few very rare cards that hit the population reports not to long ago and they were snatched up at record prices from a mystery buyer that was not one of the core collectors.
Clearly the star cards have broader appeal just like in traditional sports trading cards and I think you will see more and more collectors want to add a few to their collections. There are a handful of cards from the wrestling segment that have broad cross over appeal. That said just like any type of cards they are addicting and generally people don't stop with a few but if they do those cards they purchased will remain in their collection.
I find it comical when wrestling cards are considered junk. Certainly there are some that could be considered that but that can be said for all types of cards. In reality one mans trash is another's treasure so who is to judge.
Always looking to buy or trade for Andre the Giant autographs
psacard.com/psasetregistry/non-sports/famous-personage/andre-giant-master-set/alltimeset/180400
My 1985 OPC Series 2 Set
I can improve this set a bit but many of the cards that I have 9s of and have only 1 10 - well those 10s are in DPeck's collection...
But man I remember wanting to be Hulk Hogan when I was a kid. That's a rookie I'd like to add to my personal collection.
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
<< <i>Imagine how excited collectors are when they see some of their very favorite wrestlers in a PSA slab with low pops instead of seeing the overproduced junk from the late 1980s and early 1990s. >>
At the risk of you threatening physical violence against someone who doesn't agree with you, as you have in the past, I would think you wouldn't be so quick to label what other people collect as "junk". Wrestling collectors on here, unfortunately, have had people slag off what they collect. As a result, I would have thought they would be the last to call other's collecting interests "junk".
<< <i>It always surprises me that people can't figure out what the attraction is. >>
I'm with you on that, David. Collecting little rectangular pieces of cardboard with baseball or football players pictured on them doesn't seem to me much different than collecting little rectangular pieces of cardboard with wrestlers or anything else on them. As you said, no one seems to be puzzled by people collecting other non-sports cards... not sure why wrestling is so different?
Snorto~
<< <i>
<< <i>Imagine how excited collectors are when they see some of their very favorite wrestlers in a PSA slab with low pops instead of seeing the overproduced junk from the late 1980s and early 1990s. >>
At the risk of you threatening physical violence against someone who doesn't agree with you, as you have in the past, I would think you wouldn't be so quick to label what other people collect as "junk". Wrestling collectors on here, unfortunately, have had people slag off what they collect. As a result, I would have thought they would be the last to call other's collecting interests "junk".
<< <i>It always surprises me that people can't figure out what the attraction is. >>
I'm with you on that, David. Collecting little rectangular pieces of cardboard with baseball or football players pictured on them doesn't seem to me much different than collecting little rectangular pieces of cardboard with wrestlers or anything else on them. As you said, no one seems to be puzzled by people collecting other non-sports cards... not sure why wrestling is so different?
Snorto~ >>
I may not have phrased it the way I should have as I think that collectors should collect whatever they enjoy collecting. My intention of that quote is that the production numbers for wrestling is quite low and that is a good thing for the wrestling card market. I am all good with someone collecting 1989 Topps baseball in PSA 6 if that is what they choose, to each their own. My point was the attraction of low pop numbers (less supply and potential for maintaining some value) for many wrestling cards at this point in time and most likely for a lot of wrestling sets since the production numbers were low. Instead of "junk" I could have said "inexpensive". I doubt many people collect to lose a bunch of money though and that was my overall point.
You are welcome to review the thread where Edmund Fitzgerald called me a savage and it was in my blood and I'm just like my Indian ancestors. I wasn't threatening to assault him, but welcomed him to step unto a wrestling mat in sport with me. I've never committed a crime and I have three college degrees so don't paint me as someone I am not. I have wrestled and coached the sport for thirty years and wanted to give Fitz an opportunity at me rather than running his mouth. It would also give me a reason to go to the national. Someone on that thread had their popcorn ready.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Imagine how excited collectors are when they see some of their very favorite wrestlers in a PSA slab with low pops instead of seeing the overproduced junk from the late 1980s and early 1990s. >>
At the risk of you threatening physical violence against someone who doesn't agree with you, as you have in the past, I would think you wouldn't be so quick to label what other people collect as "junk". Wrestling collectors on here, unfortunately, have had people slag off what they collect. As a result, I would have thought they would be the last to call other's collecting interests "junk".
<< <i>It always surprises me that people can't figure out what the attraction is. >>
I'm with you on that, David. Collecting little rectangular pieces of cardboard with baseball or football players pictured on them doesn't seem to me much different than collecting little rectangular pieces of cardboard with wrestlers or anything else on them. As you said, no one seems to be puzzled by people collecting other non-sports cards... not sure why wrestling is so different?
Snorto~ >>
I may not have phrased it the way I should have as I think that collectors should collect whatever they enjoy collecting. My intention of that quote is that the production numbers for wrestling is quite low and that is a good thing for the wrestling card market. I am all good with someone collecting 1989 Topps baseball in PSA 6 if that is what they choose, to each their own. My point was the attraction of low pop numbers (less supply and potential for maintaining some value) for many wrestling cards at this point in time and most likely for a lot of wrestling sets since the production numbers were low. Instead of "junk" I could have said "inexpensive". I doubt many people collect to lose a bunch of money though and that was my overall point.
You are welcome to review the thread where Edmund Fitzgerald called me a savage and it was in my blood and I'm just like my Indian ancestors. I wasn't threatening to assault him, but welcomed him to step unto a wrestling mat in sport with me. I've never committed a crime and I have three college degrees so don't paint me as someone I am not. I have wrestled and coached the sport for thirty years and wanted to give Fitz an opportunity at me rather than running his mouth. It would also give me a reason to go to the national. Someone on that thread had their popcorn ready. >>
I would love to own a Hogan rookie, but if it weren't for this board and a couple people I'd have never known the card exists.
"Sports Card Investing" to me is an oxymoron. When I buy a card I could care less if it goes up or down in "value" (though it's always nice to make more than spent when liquidating/shifting collecting focus). But if I were investing in wrestling cards, the only set I'd be interested in is the 82/83 All-Stars, except I could never invest in this set because it's too risky, not because of popularity/demand, but simply because the set was printed by an individual in his basement. What's to keep this guy (or someone else) from turning the presses on again? How is PSA able to detect counterfeits? These are big, legit, questions I'd like answered before sinking money into this set.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Imagine how excited collectors are when they see some of their very favorite wrestlers in a PSA slab with low pops instead of seeing the overproduced junk from the late 1980s and early 1990s. >>
At the risk of you threatening physical violence against someone who doesn't agree with you, as you have in the past, I would think you wouldn't be so quick to label what other people collect as "junk". Wrestling collectors on here, unfortunately, have had people slag off what they collect. As a result, I would have thought they would be the last to call other's collecting interests "junk".
<< <i>It always surprises me that people can't figure out what the attraction is. >>
I'm with you on that, David. Collecting little rectangular pieces of cardboard with baseball or football players pictured on them doesn't seem to me much different than collecting little rectangular pieces of cardboard with wrestlers or anything else on them. As you said, no one seems to be puzzled by people collecting other non-sports cards... not sure why wrestling is so different?
Snorto~ >>
I may not have phrased it the way I should have as I think that collectors should collect whatever they enjoy collecting. My intention of that quote is that the production numbers for wrestling is quite low and that is a good thing for the wrestling card market. I am all good with someone collecting 1989 Topps baseball in PSA 6 if that is what they choose, to each their own. My point was the attraction of low pop numbers (less supply and potential for maintaining some value) for many wrestling cards at this point in time and most likely for a lot of wrestling sets since the production numbers were low. Instead of "junk" I could have said "inexpensive". I doubt many people collect to lose a bunch of money though and that was my overall point.
You are welcome to review the thread where Edmund Fitzgerald called me a savage and it was in my blood and I'm just like my Indian ancestors. I wasn't threatening to assault him, but welcomed him to step unto a wrestling mat in sport with me. I've never committed a crime and I have three college degrees so don't paint me as someone I am not. I have wrestled and coached the sport for thirty years and wanted to give Fitz an opportunity at me rather than running his mouth. It would also give me a reason to go to the national. Someone on that thread had their popcorn ready. >>
I would love to own a Hogan rookie, but if it weren't for this board and a couple people I'd have never known the card exists.
"Sports Card Investing" to me is an oxymoron. When I buy a card I could care less if it goes up or down in "value" (though it's always nice to make more than spent when liquidating/shifting collecting focus). But if I were investing in wrestling cards, the only set I'd be interested in is the 82/83 All-Stars, except I could never invest in this set because it's too risky, not because of popularity/demand, but simply because the set was printed by an individual in his basement. What's to keep this guy (or someone else) from turning the presses on again? How is PSA able to detect counterfeits? These are big, legit, questions I'd like answered before sinking money into this set. >>
The set was not printed by Norman Keitzer in his basement.
He sold all of the rights to the photos to Brian at Wrestleprints.com and he is a very nice guy in my dealings with him.
I don't get the feeling he has the plates nor the thought of reproducing the cards. He is just happy that he has found some loose sets and a sheet to make some extra money from the deal.
<< <i>If anyone read my original post and got the impression that I DONT understand why anyone would collect wrestling cards then they read it wrong. I was only asking a few of the big collectors of the stuff what the market is like and what drives it. I just never see the stuff. Thought it was a valid question. It just seems to me to be a small market regardless of the popularity of the sport(entertainment). That leads me to question the high dollars I see being spent on some of the cards. >>
It was a very valid question.
I didn't get that impression at all.
Superfly
<< <i>Patrick this is why people like old wrestling.
Superfly >>
I remember thinking how cool he was......
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>It's old wrestling that I loved as well. I was a huge NWA and mid Atlantic fan. >>
There are lots of cool cards to get signed too.
<< <i>
Love this card!
8:32 mark
This was a nice PSA 7 with strong centering. There were 15 bidders and I only recognize myself and two others and none of us were close to the final price.
The card went for a strong price of $404 but I think the more healthy thing was the number of bidders.
You can always have outlier prices for cards but the deeper the bidders get the more real the price support is and the Hogan card is in just fine shape.
PSA 6
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>Solid price for this Flair PSA 6 too.
PSA 6 >>
Respectfully I just don't see wrestling cards ever reaching the popularity of the big 4 sports of baseball, football, basketball and hockey. People think that wrestling is fake. I used to enjoy watching wrestling but don't see the investment potential as being solid. But one should collect what makes them happy so I don't see anything wrong with collecting wrestling cards.
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<< <i>Solid price for this Flair PSA 6 too.
PSA 6 >>
Respectfully I just don't see wrestling cards ever reaching the popularity of the big 4 sports of baseball, football, basketball and hockey. People think that wrestling is fake. I used to enjoy watching wrestling but don't see the investment potential as being solid. But one should collect what makes them happy so I don't see anything wrong with collecting wrestling cards. >>
Wrestling cards will never be close to as popular as the big 4. I completely agree.
If anyone is collecting them on that basis it is not wise and I personally don't think most are.
I certainly am not.
Always looking to buy or trade for Andre the Giant autographs
psacard.com/psasetregistry/non-sports/famous-personage/andre-giant-master-set/alltimeset/180400