Apples and oranges: my 1866 German coin in MS67 versus its small silver US counterparts

lordmarcovan

German States (Hesse-Darmstadt): silver kreuzer, 1866

Not only is an MS67 grade on a coin that's nearly 150 years old impressive, but I was also taken by the stunning cameo prooflike mint frost on this little coin.

Pop 2, so I suppose it's tied with one other for finest known.





Larger obverse image
Larger reverse image


I paid just under a hundred bucks for this little supergem. (Barely.)

Comparing apples and oranges, just for fun:

Mintages
1866 Hesse-Darmstatd 1 kreuzer: 247,000
1866 USA silver three-cent piece: 22,000
1866 USA Seated Liberty half dime: 10,000 (at Philadelphia), 120,000 (at San Francisco)

Trend prices
1866 Hesse-Darmstatd 1 kreuzer: $45.00 for generic "UNC" (MS60-63) per Krause catalog
1866 USA silver three-cent piece: $11,020.00 per Numismedia in MS67
1866 USA Seated Liberty half dime: $6,780.00 per Numismedia in MS67, $9,560.00 for 1866-S

I don't think $100-ish is bad for the German coin in MS67. Particularly when you stack it against its US counterparts in the same grade.

Granted, the US coins both had smaller mintages, but even so, I think there is a lot of bang for the buck with the little German piece.

Of course all the comparisons above are basically meaningless, but I had fun making them.


If you happen to have any MS67 coins of this era, by all means, post 'em!

lasvegasteddy

sweet example and layout here

hopefully no ones looken as i state..."YOU SUCK"...

dollar for dollar...yup...a frosty proof like...ms67 silver...from 1866...finest ties with only 1 other
you got a rip

i love it...very class my friend...cruisin with your kreuzer

lordmarcovan

Thanx, LVT.

Here's one other unscientific but interesting comparison. (Well, interesting to me, anyway).

Based on mintages alone, not conditional rarity, this coin is just about twice as rare as a 1909-S VDB cent.

lasvegasteddy

add the survival rate guesstimate and it's off the charts
"everyone was looking"....for the 09-s vdb

these kreuzers...hmmm...germany went through some trying times that lincolns country didn't

one could even add survival rate of "country of origin collectors" into the mix with above sentence

illini420

Great coin! Congrats! I certainly would have picked that up for around $100!

Here's a really pretty MS67 coin from 1866 that I used to own... was relatively cheap compared to U.S. coins as you mentioned:

rhedden

There's no doubt in my mind that classic US coins are overvalued compared to just about every other area of numismatics. However, they are tremendously more liquid than Darkside material- at least where I live. In addition, I have also done quite well with them in terms of price appreciation because buy-sell spreads are not as high as they once were. Like you, I have some German coins, but it's not clear how/where I would eventually sell them if I accumulated a large holding, or how I would make out on my investment.

Beautiful Kreuzer, by the way.

TwoSides2aCoin

Nice coin.
My mind wanders off to the years I lived there. (not Darmstadt, but in the state of Hessen)

AngryTurtle

Nice coins. I would not have guessed that the US mintage would be that much lower than the German.

crypto79

I used to live in Darmsdadt....well the version that was rebuilt after the US test drove it's fire bombing program out on the city in WW2

Musky1011

We did a deal on an 1869 NGC ms67 kreuzer once .. A long time ago.. Remember that beauty

lordmarcovan

Mike- that's what I'm talkin' about!

You nailed it on three fronts: same grade, same date, and small silver! Very nice little Vickie groat, there.

SeattleSlammer

You know I dig it.

WillieBoyd2

Possibly a tourist in Germany got the 1866 Kreuzer coin in change and took it home,
which would have removed the coin from circulation.