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Someone 'splain this bid? ($600 on MS62 1866 Shield Nickel)
TommyType
Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭
Easily distracted Type Collector
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We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
<< <i>Something going on with the date? >>
That's my #2 guess....
But I recall from a book on Shield Nickels, (which currently is out of my grasp), that there is interest in Shield Nickels with only 3 leaves on the right upper bunch? Ringing any bells with anyone? Or, is it my imagination....
Added: (Fixing my bad description). Actually not the top bunch on the right....the second bunch.
¯ Richard P. Feynman
Could be a die state collector..... there are lots of die cracks on that one.
coinzip.com
Yes, it is a missing leaf coin. Attributed as F-24. I was a bidder myself until the premium for the variety got ridiculous (IMO).
http://www.shieldnickels.net
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
<< <i>I waited to answer until the auction was over. In my opinion, it does a disservice to out a cherrypicking opportunity on an active auction. (All the OP had to do was wait until about 5:30PM to post his question to avoid outing the auction, especially since he knew why the bid was so high.)
Yes, it is a missing leaf coin. Attributed as F-24. I was a bidder myself until the premium for the variety got ridiculous (IMO). >>
Well, the OP frankly doesn't feel constrained by the silly idea that he must help people "cherry pick" items. As far as I'm concerned, I could be helping the consignor as much as I'm hurting the birders, so it's all a wash.
If someone else notices and alerts others, then it wasn't a cherry pick in the first place.
It's also a zero-sum game. Every dollar the cherry picker gains, the seller loses. How does the OP choose who to back?
Some people spend hours searching through auctions for cherrypicking opportunities. Those hours are wasted when somebody chooses to post about the coin solely to demonstrate his "superior knowledge."
It's okay if you don't agree with me, but I'm not changing my mind on this. In fact, in the Yahoo Shield Nickel group (which I moderate), outing active cherrypick opportunities is not allowed.
For those who say it's a zero sum game because outing the auction benefits the seller: I don't buy that argument. If the seller wants to maximize his profits he should understand what he is selling and describe appropriately..
http://www.shieldnickels.net
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
So many people simply want to rip off or get over on someone else, amd publicly state that.
Numismatics is neither a competition nor a legalized way for people to rip off the less knowledgeable. Imagine going to a grocery store and having them make up a price for an item based on your age or look or demeanor...an apple might be 20c, it might be $2...ha ha, sucker!
As per definition, numismatics is the study or collection of currency, including coins, tokens, paper money, and related objects...
I guess it is becomimg a manner in which to gain personal wealth by taking advantage of others... Maybe that's one of the reasons this hobby is dying, vey few numismatis left in the hobby, most are investors and profiteers.
This is not aimed at any one individual but rather an observation over the past year of how people think and act.
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody.
<< <i>There's quite a difference, IMO.
Some people spend hours searching through auctions for cherrypicking opportunities. Those hours are wasted when somebody chooses to post about the coin solely to demonstrate his "superior knowledge."
It's okay if you don't agree with me, but I'm not changing my mind on this. In fact, in the Yahoo Shield Nickel group (which I moderate), outing active cherrypick opportunities is not allowed.
For those who say it's a zero sum game because outing the auction benefits the seller: I don't buy that argument. If the seller wants to maximize his profits he should understand what he is selling and describe appropriately.. >>
Scouring HA.com for rare unattributed varieties?!? What a brilliant and original idea
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
I have Taught a Few folks on these boards about the Varieties in this Series, and even One person who has already commented in this thread, Alot have taken the knowledge I have shared and profited from those Posts. Last year the lightbulb went off for me, as I really thought I was teaching other Collectors about Varieties and realized I was teaching a FEW Washington Quarter Collectors but I was also Teaching the Flippers.
These are people who could care less about the Washington Quarters and sell Everyone they find. I no longer post any Cherrypicks or Talk about any NEW Discoveries. You want to learn go buy a Book. Second After the TDN thread and those that contacted or thought it was ok to contact the Ebay seller because of his Cherrypick, another reason no ONE that loves a Series and the Varieties post anymore.
Since I joined in 2010 it was always Understood to NOT post a coin that is Still up for bidding..Variety or Not. Times have changed. I sent in my LAST submission of 9 coins, membership expired 2 weeks ago and its time to Move on. These boards used to be a Place of Sharing our Grades and New Discoveries and Yes Cherrypicks. You wonder why this place is Quiet? JMO Enjoy
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
<< <i>Since I joined in 2010 it was always Understood to NOT post a coin that is Still up for bidding..Variety or Not. >>
This is still my understanding. Rules haven't changed just because the OP doesn't agree with them. Many of our most knowledgeable and respected members have moved on, however. I used to make friends at shows when I mentioned I'm on the forum. Now I tend to get sighs and remarks about why they no longer read, let alone post.
Thankfully, the darkside is still healthy so I don't see myself going anywhere anytime soon.
Also, if you think this is a ghost town ... check out the autographs and stamps boards. I feel bad for those guys.
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
<< <i>
<< <i>Since I joined in 2010 it was always Understood to NOT post a coin that is Still up for bidding..Variety or Not. >>
This is still my understanding. Rules haven't changed just because the OP doesn't agree with them. >>
Well, "rules" aren't rules unless they are published. Call that the ignorance defense, if you must.....or call it reality.
But I was just looking for information. Saw a coin I was watching going for more than I expected, and for education, (of myself and potentially others), thought it was worth bringing it up. Quite obviously, MY post didn't send the price over-the-top, since it was already there! The price influenced me, I didn't influence the price.
Then, I was frankly offended that someone thought I was guilty of the "crime" of "bursting a cherry pick". To heck with that. If THAT was the crime, I'm more inclined to ignore the complaint. I'm not going to be shamed into being a co-conspirator by helping someone pull a fast one through silence. If you can do it on your own, fine. But I'm not going to let my actions be guided by some secret *wink*, and handshake among the special people with the secret decoder ring.
Like others have said, I don't share the "thrill" of buying something for less than it's worth. Nor for flipping coins, and profitting just because I'm in the right place at the right time. That isn't the hobby. It's a side show to the hobby.
If you can use your knowledge to gain an edge, that's great. But to EXPECT the world around you to stop spinning while you do it? No, you're expecting too much.
If the general rule is to not discuss current auctions, well, there is some merit there. There is the potential to unduly influence, (both to the positive and negative), the desireabilty of a coin. I'll take that into consideration.
But when it comes to a public auction? I'll take education over someone's precious "cherry pick" every day.
<< <i>I am really surprised by some of the comments. Two things. I study and research Washington Quarters and ONLY Washington Quarters. I buy Books,and any other material I can get my hands on and have made friends who Likewise collect this Series.
I have Taught a Few folks on these boards about the Varieties in this Series, and even One person who has already commented in this thread, Alot have taken the knowledge I have shared and profited from those Posts. Last year the lightbulb went off for me, as I really thought I was teaching other Collectors about Varieties and realized I was teaching a FEW Washington Quarter Collectors but I was also Teaching the Flippers.
These are people who could care less about the Washington Quarters and sell Everyone they find. I no longer post any Cherrypicks or Talk about any NEW Discoveries. You want to learn go buy a Book. Second After the TDN thread and those that contacted or thought it was ok to contact the Ebay seller because of his Cherrypick, another reason no ONE that loves a Series and the Varieties post anymore.
Since I joined in 2010 it was always Understood to NOT post a coin that is Still up for bidding..Variety or Not. Times have changed. I sent in my LAST submission of 9 coins, membership expired 2 weeks ago and its time to Move on. These boards used to be a Place of Sharing our Grades and New Discoveries and Yes Cherrypicks. You wonder why this place is Quiet? JMO Enjoy
I agree with parts of this and not others. I agree by sharing my specialized knowledge I have empowered a few flippers similar to what you speak of but I have also groomed some new collectors. Got to take the good with the bad. As to this false rule of not posting active auctions it has always been 50%-50% around here. Some see it as breaking the cherry picker code while others could care less about empowering others profits. It is not like exposure keeps collectors form buying their targeted coins, at worst it just means they have to pay market rates. That isn't so bad in my mind.
As someone else said "if someone else sees it, it isn't a cherry pick"
<< <i>If the general rule is to not discuss current auctions, well, there is some merit there. There is the potential to unduly influence, (both to the positive and negative), the desireabilty of a coin. I'll take that into consideration. >>
Yes, that is exactly the point. That is what we are talking about.
<< <i>But when it comes to a public auction? I'll take education over someone's precious "cherry pick" every day. >>
Now you are contradicting yourself? And all you had to do was wait a few more hours ... so simple. Sounds like you don't understand what cherry picking entails. Perhaps some day you will desire a particular variety of coin that is not easily found, and you will spend many hours on many days for many months (possibly even years) waiting for the perfect time to throw down and buy that coin, and then perhaps someone will post about it on a forum. And you will see that most of the serious would-be bidders of that coin are reading the forum and have now become aware of this coin, and outbid you. And then, maybe, you will understand why some folks become irked when live auctions are discussed.
I don't know why this is being blown into such a huge deal because it seems rather simple to me. You don't walk over to a chess game and suggest better moves to the players. You don't post about live auctions on the forum.
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody.
<< <i> Perhaps some day you will desire a particular variety of coin that is not easily found, and you will spend many hours on many days for many months (possibly even years) waiting for the perfect time to throw down and buy that coin, and then perhaps someone will post about it on a forum. And you will see that most of the serious would-be bidders of that coin are reading the forum and have now become aware of this coin, and outbid you. And then, maybe, you will understand why some folks become irked when live auctions are discussed.
<< <i>
Well said
<< <i> Perhaps some day you will desire a particular variety of coin that is not easily found, and you will spend many hours on many days for many months (possibly even years) waiting for the perfect time to throw down and buy that coin, and then perhaps someone will post about it on a forum. And you will see that most of the serious would-be bidders of that coin are reading the forum and have now become aware of this coin, and outbid you. And then, maybe, you will understand why some folks become irked when live auctions are discussed.
Well said >>
People should stop implying that their opinion is a forum rule. People should also stop feeling entitled to others who also see the any pitiful at coin as being obligated to keep quite to save you money. What next, being mad at under bidders for bidding even though they weren't going to win the coin? If you can't afford to pay retail then maybe it isn't realistic that you will be able to add one to your collection. No one is blocking you from buying anything it just has been potentially brought to the attention of people who will either want it more then you or are have a larger (available income to desire) ratio if you are outbid like any auction. Neither are the posters fault.
I do draw the line at the haters who reach out after the fact to the sellers or try to sabotage completed transactions. But this isn't going to be solved here.
<< <i>Now you are contradicting yourself? >>
No. I'm not.
What I was talking about were conditions where I might be either the seller or a bidder for the lot in question.
"Hey, this coin is really nice! And it's rare variety xyz!" = Totally inappropriate if I'm the seller/consignor, and I don't reveal it.
"Doesn't this look over-graded? Piece of crap!!" = Totally inappropriate if I'm a bidder trying to stear competition away.
For those reasons, I will in the future avoid posting and discussing active auctions. (Not that I either sell or bid all that much, nor do I have a propensity to manipulate auctions in that manner....but the casual reader certainly doesn't know that, nor should they be forced to guess).
By definition, that also means I won't post or discuss cherry-pick candidates, despite the fact that I don't give a rats-patootie if I might "reveal the deep dark secret".
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody.
<< <i>
<< <i> Perhaps some day you will desire a particular variety of coin that is not easily found, and you will spend many hours on many days for many months (possibly even years) waiting for the perfect time to throw down and buy that coin, and then perhaps someone will post about it on a forum. And you will see that most of the serious would-be bidders of that coin are reading the forum and have now become aware of this coin, and outbid you. And then, maybe, you will understand why some folks become irked when live auctions are discussed.
Well said >>
People should stop implying that their opinion is a forum rule. People should also stop feeling entitled to others who also see the any pitiful at coin as being obligated to keep quite to save you money. What next, being mad at under bidders for bidding even though they weren't going to win the coin? If you can't afford to pay retail then maybe it isn't realistic that you will be able to add one to your collection. No one is blocking you from buying anything it just has been potentially brought to the attention of people who will either want it more then you or are have a larger (available income to desire) ratio if you are outbid like any auction. Neither are the posters fault.
I do draw the line at the haters who reach out after the fact to the sellers or try to sabotage completed transactions. But this isn't going to be solved here. >>
You may or may not understand this but here goes.
There is no rule that I have to open the door for a lady - it is just the polite thing to do
There is no rule that I shouldn't skip others in line so I can go first - it is just the right thing to do
There is no rule that I should respect my elders, it is just the decent thing to do
There is no rule that I don't pick my nose during a job interview, it is just the smart thing to do
There is no rule that I don't cough in someone elses face, it is just the hygenic thing to do
There is no rule that says I have to stand up for others who can't stand up for themselves, it is just the courageous thing to do
And finally, there is no rule that says you can't talk about current auctions, it is just the decent thing to do
Carry on however you please...................
<< <i>If you can not afford the coin don't waste your time on it. Why would anyone waste years of watching a coin they want for the only reason of ripping someone off. This has never made sense to me but it seems to be the way many on this board feel. I watch coins and buy them because I like them not so I can complain at people for talking about a coin I like and not for ripping off a seller. How would you feel getting ripped off by a buyer just because you made a mistake or because you did not know quite as much as the buyer? This is the sad state of affairs of the flippers who whine so much that they can not buy a 600.00 for 50.00 and then sell it to someone who doesn't know better for 900.00 and complain, cry and whine about it and actually get supported in their whining. When did sharing of numismatic knowledge on this board get buried 100ft under ground and and only for profit discussions take over? To get mad at someone for sharing knowledge with someone who does not have that knowledge is disgraceful and should not be condoned. When a cherry pick happens it is between you and the person you got it from and good for you. If you broadcast how you ripped the seller and who that seller is then you should expect some to respond to that in a negative way as you are boasting about ripping a very specific person off. If you cherry pick an item and just discuss that item and the pricing along with pics then all is good as you have not named the person you took advantage of. It is when some one gloats over the person by naming them that it becomes a problem as we have all caught a deal here and there and have all had some one get a deal from us. Would you want some one coming on this board and saying " I just cherry picked Howe so bad, I got XYZ for 200.00 and it is a 12,000.00 XYZ what a dum a**!!! He doesn't even know what he is selling and that idiot should really get some books because I am not going to help him hahaha I love ripping people like him"! >>
You make a valid point but I think you are missing the point some people are trying to make. Let me use another analogy. For the past 5 years, I have had a really hard time finding powder that I use to reload shotgun shells. Every chance I get, I check all my online and in person sources for this powder. Unfortunately, supply just can't keep up with demand and when it is available, it is way overpriced in my opinion. Let's say I finally find an online auction with reasonable pricing that I want to bid on. Next thing I know, someone posts about this live auction on a gun forum 5 minutes before the end of the auction. A mad dash occurs for the powder and I am outbid by a mile. It has nothing to do with making a rip or getting a cherry pick. I just wanted to buy the powder at a reasonable price. I am bummed out because someone publicly inflated the demand on an item I have been searching and waiting to buy at a reasonable price for a long time. It is not necesarily wrong and to Crypto's point there is no rule saying someone can't do that, it just bums me out. You could say that I should have bid more and you are correct. Is it better for the seller, you bet. On the other hand, I just wish they had the decency to wait until I had a chance with my max bid instead of pushing up the price.
Here's another scenario. Let's say I have been calling around for months looking for this powder. I call my local hardware store and find out they have 10 bottles on the shelf they just got in but they will not hold it for anyone. Should I call up all my friends who are also looking and tell them the powder is available or should I keep quiet and drive down to the store to buy it first for myself then tell my friends? It has nothing to do with a rip or a cherry pick, it is all about supply and demand. The more people that know about the powder, the less chance that I will be able to buy it.
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
I enjoy a for-profit flip almost as much as buying and keeping the coin as a collector. It is just how I like to enjoy our hobby. I would also posit that flippers add value and activity to the market by performing buy/sells. Especially if you image a scenario where every buyer was just a long term collector...pieces (that aren't widgets) wouldn't become available very often, thereby driving interest in the hobby down/away.
Finally, I would also point out that the majority of flippers do not make obscene profits on every flip. We often times make just a little, break even or lose money, depending on many factors. So, some times our flip loss becomes another party's "rip" - a rip (or dare I say "cherrypick", lol) to perhaps one of those long term collector's that believe the hobby is on the decline.
hmmm...my argument seems to be circular...good thing it was on purpose!
Seriously this is one coin and again the price shows it was already spotted before the thread started so it is a for profit argument. In your example the for profit people would go buy the 10 bottles then tell their friends about how they can get them the powder at x times retail because of demand then go and brag how they got the rip and ripped off those the powder was sold to. We all want to get a coin for the best price we can just like a new car but what is a fair price and what is just taking advantage of the seller? My other point is about outing the seller and that is what I disagree with, if you get a cherry pick great just dont out the seller and don't be negative or talk crap about the seller unless the seller can defend them self. Talk about the pic, show the coin, tell why it was a cherry pick but leave the seller out of it. This is the proper thing to do. JMHO
<< <i>HCH I understand your point but your scenario is a bit different. Just change your powder lol...
Seriously this is one coin and again the price shows it was already spotted before the thread started so it is a for profit argument. In your example the for profit people would go buy the 10 bottles then tell their friends about how they can get them the powder at x times retail because of demand then go and brag how they got the rip and ripped off those the powder was sold to. We all want to get a coin for the best price we can just like a new car but what is a fair price and what is just taking advantage of the seller? My other point is about outing the seller and that is what I disagree with, if you get a cherry pick great just dont out the seller and don't be negative or talk crap about the seller unless the seller can defend them self. Talk about the pic, show the coin, tell why it was a cherry pick but leave the seller out of it. This is the proper thing to do. JMHO >>
It's funny that you wrote this. I am on my third type of powder this year. Just doesn't work as well as the other two but I have had to make due.
I get what everyone is saying. I just feel the pain of losing out on a cool variety that you have been searching for. Not the end of the world though and just keep looking I guess.
<< <i>Let me count the false equivalencies, never mind, there is no retraining of victim mentality. >>
I can see where you are coming from and you made a good point earlier. It's all good.
<< <i>I waited to answer until the auction was over. In my opinion, it does a disservice to out a cherrypicking opportunity on an active auction. (IMO). >>
Disservice to who? The cherrypicker?, or the seller, who may just be a little old lady who inherited a few coins? There is no such "rule" and I will post an auction anytime I feel like it, live or not. There have been no complaints about live auctions posted when counterfeit or altered coins or fake slabbed coins have been discussed here. Or if a toned coin has natural or artificial toning.